F-35 purchase undecided, Fantino says

[Smallc]

Selling CBC is NOT going to even pay for 1 jet let alone 65

For the sake or argument - even after the cuts, the CBC will get $1B a year. Using the $25B over 20 years for the 65 F-35s - including operations, we could buy, maintain, and operate about 50 F-35s with 20 years of CBC budgets. I don't advocate that.

[stopstaaron]

For the sake or argument - even after the cuts, the CBC will get $1B a year. Using the $25B over 20 years for the 65 F-35s - including operations, we could buy, maintain, and operate about 50 F-35s with 20 years of CBC budgets. I don't advocate that.

if it takes 25 billion to run and buy those jets how can you buy and run 50 of them by taking 1 B from CBC?!

I don't understand your math here

1B for 20 years is 20 billion .. to buy and run a jet its estimated to be at 25?

Edited April 7, 2012 by stopstaaron

[Smallc]

1B for 20 years is 20 billion .. to buy and run a jet its estimated to be at 25?

All lifecycle costs (20 years) for the F-35 (65 of them - or whatever $9B will buy) come to $25B total. The CBC's budget per year is $1B. That's $20B over 20 years.

[MACKER]

For the sake or argument - even after the cuts, the CBC will get $1B a year. Using the $25B over 20 years for the 65 F-35s - including operations, we could buy, maintain, and operate about 50 F-35s with 20 years of CBC budgets. I don't advocate that.

Journalists pay taxes too, and collect EI too, and collect social benefits too. Without a CBC you have freelandcing journalists at the same cost to the tax payer. You are spouting nonsense without looking at the collateral of a move like killing the CBC which would have serious repercussions.

What the CBC needs is a specific role - example only government advertising funding to go to crown corporations as the sole outlet of government communications - interviews etc.. so that viewership was given an advantage over other networks.

Thus some businesses would have an advantage ot advertise on people who watched for government information.

The government should kill all paid "advertising" and have free government ad plays etc.. as part ofhteir funding arrangement with the CBC, just kill all other forms of governmental aadvertising

Radio Canada, CBC and gc.ca

The tax dollars for ad campaigns like action plan and budget releases or special programs is absolutely repulsive waste of tax payers funds. It is the worst kind of pork barreling to be using public funds to convince the public you are doing good things.

Worse yet those funds are going to american firms just like the Conservative Party of Canada's use of America telemarketing firms contrary to elections Canada rules against foreign agents involvement in Canadian elections AND then billed the public for it with tax rebates.

Get FREE advertising from the CBC and stop all this buy offs of the media and propaganda on the public dime. It is disgusting.

If a journalist won't write you are doing good without paying them then chances are you arn't. And if you can't augment payment by supplying inserts then you arn't using public funds as well as you could be.

The CBC isn't the problem it is government mismanagement of the CBC that is the problem. They are totally incompetent. This embezzlement of public funds to private media is criminal behaviour. Especially when aimed for partisan purposes. It is just plain wrong, and illegal.

A government that needs to buy the press is a government that is likely filled with scumbags.

the only parallel i can think of is a man who doesn't want to treat his woman good so he goes to the hoar house instead of working on the relationship. That is the Conservative Party of Canada's model of public governance.

Edited April 7, 2012 by MACKER

[Smallc]

Journalists pay taxes too, and collect EI too, and collect social benefits too. Without a CBC you have freelandcing journalists at the same cost to the tax payer.

[dre]

For the sake or argument - even after the cuts, the CBC will get $1B a year. Using the $25B over 20 years for the 65 F-35s - including operations, we could buy, maintain, and operate about 50 F-35s with 20 years of CBC budgets. I don't advocate that.

Right but CBC at least has some good hockey games on it. The Canadian airforce has never defended us from a sigle attack in history. In one get case we get mediocre TV... in the other case we get nothing at all.

[punked]

Right but CBC at least has some good hockey games on it. The Canadian airforce has never defended us from a sigle attack in history. In one get case we get mediocre TV... in the other case we get nothing at all.

So true.

[Wild Bill]

Bill you still do not understand.. when you don't have the money to buy what you want you can't buy it

you can't take out a ginormous loan and not pay it back either

Selling CBC is NOT going to even pay for 1 jet let alone 65

You deserved my comment

No, I did not! It was rude and uncivilized! It was more typical of the profane crap from rubble.com.

We have some very good people on MLW from all sides of the political spectrum. We don't routinely tell each other to go to hell!

Your ignorant comments would ruin this board, if they became the norm. The mods appear to have taken the long weekend but afterwards I;m sure this will be addressed.

You are entitled to your opinion. So am I. You don't have to be righteous and rude if someone disagrees with you.

The last thing I would ever want to see is a Canada run by people who have YOUR attitude! You act like an evangelical preacher spilling hate, only with politics instead of religion.

[Argus]

Don't even try waldo I have posted this in every F-35 thread and the Conservatives around here wont even address it.

I addressed it not long ago.

On Thursday, Mr. Ferguson appeared in front of the public accounts committee of the House, saying Conservative ministers were aware the overall cost of the F-35 program, including personnel and operating costs, totalled $25-billion, instead of the publicly stated budget of $14-billion to $15-billion. Much of the difference between $15-billion and $25-billion is operating costs – including National Defence personnel salaries – that are largely fixed and would be incurred regardless of what fighter plane Canada was flying.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Argus

[stopstaaron]

No, I did not! It was rude and uncivilized! It was more typical of the profane crap from rubble.com.

We have some very good people on MLW from all sides of the political spectrum. We don't routinely tell each other to go to hell!

Your ignorant comments would ruin this board, if they became the norm. The mods appear to have taken the long weekend but afterwards I;m sure this will be addressed.

You are entitled to your opinion. So am I. You don't have to be righteous and rude if someone disagrees with you.

The last thing I would ever want to see is a Canada run by people who have YOUR attitude! You act like an evangelical preacher spilling hate, only with politics instead of religion.

I said "or you COULD go to hell" not "go to hell"

There is a difference there

btw way to use ignorant the wrong way

Edited April 7, 2012 by stopstaaron

[stopstaaron]

or you could go to hell

See Bill

[punked]

I addressed it not long ago.

On Thursday, Mr. Ferguson appeared in front of the public accounts committee of the House, saying Conservative ministers were aware the overall cost of the F-35 program, including personnel and operating costs, totalled $25-billion, instead of the publicly stated budget of $14-billion to $15-billion. Much of the difference between $15-billion and $25-billion is operating costs – including National Defence personnel salaries – that are largely fixed and would be incurred regardless of what fighter plane Canada was flying.

You aren't addressing why we were never told of these numbers. We just had an election and Harper said these numbers didn't exist. Why did he lie to us and Parliament?

[Argus]

You aren't addressing why we were never told of these numbers. We just had an election and Harper said these numbers didn't exist. Why did he lie to us and Parliament?

I'm really not interested in rehashing the nuances from a year ago. And I don't remember who said what when. What I do know is there is a cost to acquiring the fighters, and the price quoted includes that, as well as maintenance. All else is simply ongoing costs which we have now, will have tomorrow, and will have in ten or twenty or thirty years, regardless of which airplanes we're flying. I don't consider that information material to any discussion as to which aircraft to purchase.

[punked]

I'm really not interested in rehashing the nuances from a year ago. And I don't remember who said what when. What I do know is there is a cost to acquiring the fighters, and the price quoted includes that, as well as maintenance. All else is simply ongoing costs which we have now, will have tomorrow, and will have in ten or twenty or thirty years, regardless of which airplanes we're flying. I don't consider that information material to any discussion as to which aircraft to purchase.

And the public should not know the numbers and be able to make an informed decision on if they went to contribute to those costs. Don't forget that part.

[Smallc]

And the public should not know the numbers and be able to make an informed decision on if they went to contribute to those costs. Don't forget that part.

The public hardly ever makes an informed decision.

[punked]

The public hardly ever makes an informed decision.

That is where Democracy ends my friend I think you want to live in a different society, one where the military and upper class make the decisions perhaps?

[DogOnPorch]

That is where Democracy ends my friend I think you want to live in a different society, one where the military and upper class make the decisions perhaps?

I'd like one where the pilots have a say rather than yourself and other civilians.

[Smallc]

That is where Democracy ends my friend I think you want to live in a different society, one where the military and upper class make the decisions perhaps?

It's the one where we have a representative democracy. We pick representatives to keep us from deciding into anarchy.

[bush_cheney2004]

I'd like one where the pilots have a say rather than yourself and other civilians.

Civilian decision = Sea Kings Forever

[DogOnPorch]

Civilian decision = Sea Kings Forever

Or the Airco DH-2 if some had their way.

It flies and has a gun. It meets Canada's needs.

[punked]

It's the one where we have a representative democracy. We pick representatives to keep us from deciding into anarchy.

Yah I remember doing that.....I remember my representatives voting to get some documents......then I remember those documents being said to not have existed.....then I remember them turning up. That is what we are talking about so we have a problem.

[punked]

Or the Airco DH-2 if some had their way.

"Yah hahahahahahaha the people whose money it is to be spent are so dumb and only the military should get unlimited funds and spend it on whatever they want to....HAHAHA the Canadian people are so stupid."-Conservative on this message board.

Do you not see what is wrong with what you are saying?

[Smallc]

Yah I remember doing that.....I remember my representatives voting to get some documents......then I remember those documents being said to not have existed.....then I remember them turning up. That is what we are talking about so we have a problem.

You mean the irrelevant data for expenses that we would have made anyway (unless you and the rest of the NDP got your way, and we stopped funding the military - see that's how ridiculous you sound).

[punked]

You mean the irrelevant data for expenses that we would have made anyway (unless you and the rest of the NDP got your way, and we stopped funding the military - see that's how ridiculous you sound).

Yes the Data a majority my elected representatives in a Representative Democracy asked for and weren't given. That Data that is what I have been talking about.

[Smallc]

Yes the Data a majority my elected representatives in a Representative Democracy asked for and weren't given. That Data that is what I have been talking about.

Yes, the irrelevant data.