bush_cheney2004 Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 I read the report it said DND picked the F35s in 2006.. same year the conservatives were elected Doesn't matter...'picking' means nothing...Canada has no contract for F-35s. Money talks....BS walks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentalfloss Posted April 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) Doesn't matter...'picking' means nothing...Canada has no contract for F-35s. Money talks....BS walks. Sorry, but Harper's up against a wall on this one. It was one of his campaign platform promises, and the meme that Mulcair has started is now treading that Harper was either aware of the file's mishandling or willfully ignorant. In which case, he's proven to be either unconscionable or incompetent. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/video/video-mulcair-slams-tories-over-f-35s/article2391226/ Edited April 4, 2012 by mentalfloss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Sorry, but Harper's up against a wall on this one. It was one of his campaign platform promises, and the meme that Mulcair has started is now treading that Harper was either aware of the file's mishandling or willfully ignorant. In which case, he's proven to be either unconscionable or incompetent. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/video/video-mulcair-slams-tories-over-f-35s/article2391226/ This means nothing, money did not change hands and they found out there is alot of bad apples in the DND and now it will be cleaned out and then move on. But if nothing happens, then he could be in trouble.IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 I think Bill wants Canada to spend as much as Britain and the U.S Curious. You seem to be saying that we have only two choices. Spend as much as the Americans or spend nothing! When did I say that? Did you just pull that idea out of your butt? As BC pointed out, for a long time Canada didn't spend even a reasonable percentage on its military for its size! I remember how back in the 90's we were dead last by that sort of measurement. You just don't seem to see the real world, in my opinion. You remind me of a social worker in a bad part of town, telling some young kid he doesn't need to protect himself from the local gangs. Of course, by following such advice sooner or later the kid ends up dead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentalfloss Posted April 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Blame Peter MacKay for ther F-35 mess | Full Comment | National Post Liberal Leader Bob Rae demands Harper resignation over stealth fighter fiasco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Blame Peter MacKay for ther F-35 mess | Full Comment | National Post Liberal Leader Bob Rae demands Harper resignation over stealth fighter fiasco LOL Rae just proved what a fool he is, harper resign, what a joke. McKay maybe but harper come on that is just stupid. I would like to see rae be a man and tell the country if he is going to run for the leadership. Who lied there bob? Does he not understand being PM is a boss over 400,000 people and if bob says he would know if some of them were lying, is a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stopstaaron Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) Of course, by following such advice sooner or later the kid ends up dead! So your advice to the kid is to buy a gun? So he buys a gun, shoots the people that are after him and either ends up dead anyway or goes to prison for life and either rots away there or dies in prison via murder or suicide ..yeah, bad scenario dude Edited April 4, 2012 by stopstaaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stopstaaron Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 LOL Rae just proved what a fool he is, harper resign, what a joke. McKay maybe but harper come on that is just stupid. I would like to see rae be a man and tell the country if he is going to run for the leadership. Who lied there bob? Does he not understand being PM is a boss over 400,000 people and if bob says he would know if some of them were lying, is a joke. I don't think Harper should resign but Harper has to man up here and deal the punishments .. Fantino and MacKay are the most responsible for everything about the F35s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) Curious. You seem to be saying that we have only two choices. Spend as much as the Americans or spend nothing! When did I say that? Did you just pull that idea out of your butt? As BC pointed out, for a long time Canada didn't spend even a reasonable percentage on its military for its size! I remember how back in the 90's we were dead last by that sort of measurement. You just don't seem to see the real world, in my opinion. You remind me of a social worker in a bad part of town, telling some young kid he doesn't need to protect himself from the local gangs. Of course, by following such advice sooner or later the kid ends up dead! As BC pointed out, for a long time Canada didn't spend even a reasonable percentage on its military for its size! I remember how back in the 90's we were dead last by that sort of measurement. Thats GOOD! Canada SHOULD spend a lot less because we have less in the way of real defense needs. We have excellent geographical defenses and only one international border with a country that is our closest ally and largest economic partner. If we lived in the Balkans surrounded for 5 or 6 semi-stable states we would have to spend more. But per capita we should definately have among the lowest expenditures in the world. But beyond that, wheres the money? How much real money does the government have in its F-35 fund? Do they even have 5 bux? Last I heard they cant even pay their own employees without borrowing money. THe reason I ask is because we face a way larger threat from our own governments spending then we face from any foreign country. The era of spending all this magic money is gonna be over soon. If the government wants to buy the most expensive planes on earth, they it should be a FULLY FUNDED MANDATE. But we would need to raise taxes for that... so are you ok with tax hikes to pay for this lavish expenditure of convenience? You just don't seem to see the real world, in my opinion. You remind me of a social worker in a bad part of town, telling some young kid he doesn't need to protect himself from the local gangs. Actually I think its you thats living in the past. We are headed for an era of austerity in this country, and a lengthy recession. People have no money... households are tapped out, and the government is tapped out. You figure that this is a good time to make the largest purchase by our government in history... wheres the money? Do you have some? Edited April 4, 2012 by dre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Thats GOOD! Canada SHOULD spend a lot less because we have less in the way of real defense needs. We have excellent geographical defenses and only one international border with a country that is our closest ally and largest economic partner. If we lived in the Balkans surrounded for 5 or 6 semi-stable states we would have to spend more. But per capita we should definately have among the lowest expenditures in the world. But beyond that, wheres the money? How much real money does the government have in its F-35 fund? Do they even have 5 bux? Last I heard they cant even pay their own employees without borrowing money. THe reason I ask is because we face a way larger threat from our own governments spending then we face from any foreign country. The era of spending all this magic money is gonna be over soon. If the government wants to buy the most expensive planes on earth, they it should be a FULLY FUNDED MANDATE. But we would need to raise taxes for that... so are you ok with tax hikes to pay for this lavish expenditure of convenience? Excellent geographical defenses? If Russia wanted to start resource drilling and mining in the Arctic, just how do propose we'd stop them? As for tax hikes, why would they be necessary? Why not scrap other programs? How many F-35s could we buy over 20 years if we scrapped the CBC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stopstaaron Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Excellent geographical defenses? If Russia wanted to start resource drilling and mining in the Arctic, just how do propose we'd stop them? Why would Russia do that? You can make up any sort of scenario you like but if you want to be taken seriously come up with a scenario that has potential to happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 So your advice to the kid is to buy a gun? So he buys a gun, shoots the people that are after him and either ends up dead anyway or goes to prison for life and either rots away there or dies in prison via murder or suicide ..yeah, bad scenario dude What choice did he have? If I knew that someone was going to kill me I would not simply let him do it! If the kid can defend himself then he has a chance of living. The fact that he CAN defend himself might be enough to deter a gang member! In that scenario nobody dies! Your way, the kid dies! And please, DON'T try to tell us he could go to his teachers for protection! We have lost too many kids to bullying lately for anyone to believe that pile of fuzzy wuzzy crap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) Excellent geographical defenses? If Russia wanted to start resource drilling and mining in the Arctic, just how do propose we'd stop them? As for tax hikes, why would they be necessary? Why not scrap other programs? How many F-35s could we buy over 20 years if we scrapped the CBC? Ahhh yes! Why dont we scrap all the programs you personally dont think are important, and put all the money into programs you DO think are important... Do you really think that question needs answering? If Russia wanted to start resource drilling and mining in the Arctic, just how do propose we'd stop them? We cant afford a big enough military to stop one of the worlds super powers from drilling in the arctic. THe BEST way to assert sovereignty is for us to start developing the resources there. Do our own mining and drilling, build towns and cities etc. If we dont USE it, then we will probably LOSE it at some point. But you actually underscore one of the real problems here. Our real defense needs will eventually suffer if the government spends zillions of dollars of borrowed money on buying the first shiny object its eyes fix on to. Is the F-35 the best way to assert sovereighty over the arctic? Maybe... maybe not. We dont know because we didnt do any of the hard work thats supposed to accompany procurement. Maybe it would make more sense to just mine the hell out of it until we actually need to use it ourselves. Maybe surface to ship missiles would make more sense. We wont know until we get serious about this, and unfortunately the government seems to want to avoid that. And the whole reason we are part of these multilateral institutions... and the reason contribute both blood and treasure to fixing OTHER PEOPLES PROBLEMS, is because one day we might need some help in return. If NATO is going to sit there and do nothing while Russia invades Canadian territory, then we should withdraw from that treaty NOW... TODAY... Edited April 4, 2012 by dre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stopstaaron Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Your way, the kid dies! And please, DON'T try to tell us he could go to his teachers for protection! We have lost too many kids to bullying lately for anyone to believe that pile of fuzzy wuzzy crap! Don't tell me the gang would back down..you know that no gang would back down from 1 kid with a gun!!!!! And with your way their is either prison or death I don't think either of our ways is going to save this kid.. I think if he doesn't move to another city he is doomed.. or maybe he moves to another city and makes the same mistakes and gets involved with the wrong people again..I think the kid is doomed anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Don't tell me the gang would back down..you know that no gang would back down from 1 kid with a gun!!!!! And with your way their is either prison or death I don't think either of our ways is going to save this kid.. I think if he doesn't move to another city he is doomed.. or maybe he moves to another city and makes the same mistakes and gets involved with the wrong people again..I think the kid is doomed anyway The REAL question, is should the kid spend is FOOD money on that gun. He might die if he doesnt have the gun... he will definately die if he has no food and shelter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stopstaaron Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Are we supposed to believe Harper knew nothing? This F35 business and difficulties have been in the world news for a couple of years...so are we supposed to believe Harper was deceived by DND?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stopstaaron Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 The REAL question, is should the kid spend is FOOD money on that gun. He might die if he doesnt have the gun... he will definately die if he has no food and shelter. Or an education Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 so are we supposed to believe Harper was deceived by DND?? If you believe the Auditor General's findings and conclusions, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stopstaaron Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 If you believe the Auditor General's findings and conclusions, yes. Okay. I will go with the AG on this. But what will your opinion be if only a few civil servants get axed and nobody at the top whom were primarily responsible? I think if that occurs then Harper could not fire them because he was threatened they would take him down too.. that would be the most logical conclusion to that right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) Did anyone see Andrew Coyne on the At Issue panel last night? A spectacular evisceration of why the Harper Government is going to have to wear this one and why it's so important... Edited April 4, 2012 by Jack Weber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stopstaaron Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Apparently during QP, Harper, Fantino and MacKay were all responding to the questions by going we didn't sign the contract yet... they look like they are just going to try riding this out together ..like they do all the time don't you think someone should have been fired already?? It is a day later and it is a serious screw up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 http://www.cbc.ca/thenational/ Click on the At Issue stuff for last night... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Okay. I will go with the AG on this. But what will your opinion be if only a few civil servants get axed and nobody at the top whom were primarily responsible? I'll form an opinion on such firings or resignations when they actually occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Are we supposed to believe Harper knew nothing? This F35 business and difficulties have been in the world news for a couple of years...so are we supposed to believe Harper was deceived by DND?? When running a company with 400,000 employees, you can't know everything and you need to trust your managers, but in this case the mangers lied. I could see mckay being the point man biting the bullet, for he should have been more forcefull in finding things out. But harper will not do it now when the opp is calling for it, he will wait a little while and it should happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stopstaaron Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) I'll form an opinion on such firings or resignations when they actually occur. What odds do you give Fantino, MacKay or the General resigning / getting fired? How likely do you think that would be Edited April 4, 2012 by stopstaaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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