mentalfloss Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) If this continues to fester, it could possibly create a rift in the party, as more conscientious members seek to distance themselves from the fire. Del Mastro has made some very intriguing gestures in question period which allude to him dreading the role of the puppet. I think the "robo-answer" meme needs more exposure. Edited March 7, 2012 by mentalfloss Quote
madmax Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 One example of this was the special ballot station that was NOT authorized by EC set up at the University of Guelph. The Guelph votes were allowed by EC despite violating the rules, And a special ballot at the university was disrupted when, according to several students, the Conservative contender’s communications director, Michael Sona, burst in and attempted to grab the ballot box, claiming the vote was illegal. Elections Canada ruled otherwise. Don't mistake the Opinion of Conservative Michael Sona for that of Elections Canada. As in past years, Anne Budra, the Elections Canada returning officer for Guelph, had set up an on-campus polling station allowing students to cast their votes by special ballot, a system used for groups that are often underrepresented on election day Special Ballots occur across all ridings... What the Conservatives can be proud of is that this action successfully removed the Special Ballot from Universities.. Quote
madmax Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 If it had been brought up originally as a non-partisan allegation, it likely would have been handled completely different. Instead, the allegations were used by the opposition as a partisan, biased attack against the CPC, to which they immediately stated their defensive position, a natural reaction when one is being attacked. Why not just defend with the truth.. release all records to Elections Canada.. instead the Conservatives avoiding EC makes it look like a coverup... regardless of the position of the opposition. Instead the Conservative Defence has been a series of absurd allegations against anything in sight... Its not the opposition that is making the Conservatives look bad.. Quote
madmax Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) The truth will come out. Little by Little... drip by drip... -------------------------- In 2010, John Fryer, a member of the Order of Canada and an adjunct professor at the University of Victoria, attended a campaign school training offered by the Conservative-aligned Manning Centre for Democracy. Last week, as news of the robo-call scandal spread across Canada, he was driven to pen a letter to the editor of major Canadian newspapers about the nature of this training. The $249 two-day intensive training program took place from January 22-24, 2010, at the Delta Victoria Ocean Point Resort. The event description on the Manning Centre's website read: "With the potential of an election this spring, the skills you learn at this school can make the difference between winning and losing". March 5: Letters to the editor From Monday's Globe and Mail In January, 2010, my UVic inbox had an e-mail invite from a democracy centre to attend a campaign school. Intrigued, I signed up for the three-day event. Topics covered included voter identification. Discussion ensued about suppression techniques. Instructors explained voter suppression tactics were borrowed from those used by the U.S. Republican Party. Many kinds of suppression calls were canvassed. Another instructor gave detailed explanations of how robo-calls worked, techniques for recording messages, plus costs involved. He distributed his business card upon request. Instructors made it clear that robo-calling and voter suppression were an acceptable and normal part of winning political campaigns. With election ethics like this, a more compelling case for changing to a system of proportional representation where each and every vote counts is hard to imagine. John Fryer, adjunct professor, School of Public Administration, University of Victoria Edited March 7, 2012 by madmax Quote
madmax Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Are you suggesting that every time an allegation comes forth from the opposition, the Conservatives should just drop their pants and immediately submit to a full cavity search? LOL.. Good answer..and as the Conservatives have nothing to hide.. it shouldn't be a problem for them. This isn't a 4 year old drawing pictures of guns, but I guess it is becoming the Canadian reaction to everything. I can see problems with this as their seems to be new allegations almost daily, could get a little intrusive and distracting. Should this same philosophy be adopted by the opposition parties, or should this only apply to the Conservatives? Just wondering... Sorry maybe i missed something... The parties implicated by Elections Canada are.. Racknine. RMG, and the Conservative Party. Elections Canada is making requests and being denied by the Conservative Party. The Allegations are still pretty much the same as they were a year ago. The Allegations the Conservatives make against the opposition, Elections Canada, Some of their staff... are different virtually every day. Other parties have offered EC full records.... Infact the other parties records will even show receipts for call centres and electronic calls. None of which has been shown by the Conservatives in the Riding of Guelph.. which is the main source of investigation... let alone anywhere else.. Quote
waldo Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 It also means form letters sent in by Liberals and NDPers complaining, but presumably it will increase with the number of programmed robo calls from those two sites. "programmed robo calls"??? Wow - the ultimate spin! Are you prepared to step-up and claim the website admissions have been script-driven hacked? That's essentially what you're saying when you label them as "programmed robo calls". Is that what you're prepared to claim and substantiate? Notwithstanding you can't seem to make up your mind on complaint vs. contact even in your own usage description... surely unintentional, right? Robocalls Waldo .. implies that a computer has been programmed to call all these numbers and give out an automated message. Because if it was not a programmed computer doing robocalls, then you must be using live people to call others. Both methods were used, even cards in the mail telling you the polling station has changed. no GH... my reply was to scriblett's nonsense calling and equating the voluntary website form submissions (from avaaz & leadnow), as "programmed robo calls". Quote
waldo Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Special Ballots occur across all ridings...What the Conservatives can be proud of is that this action successfully removed the Special Ballot from Universities.. ah yes, Harper Conservative voter suppression of a different flavour! Elections Canada puts end to ‘special ballot’ voting An increasingly common gambit to get students to vote descended into a fierce and partisan procedural squabble at the University of Guelph on Wednesday. Now, in a bid to prevent similar headaches, Elections Canada has outlawed similar efforts across the country. On Friday, Elections Canada ruled that 241 votes cast by “special ballot” that the Conservative Party initially sought to have nullified are valid and will be counted. The Tories have agreed with the ruling and withdrawn their complaint. A few minutes before 5 p.m. on Wednesday, students in snaking, hour-long voting lineups were shocked to see Michael Sona, the communications director for Guelph Conservative candidate Marty Burke and a former member of the Guelph Campus Conservatives, burst into the front foyer of the campus University Centre declaring the polling station illegal, according to accounts from students who described themselves as non-partisan. “It was a big scene. He seemed aggressive and angry and was quite loud,” said student Brenna Anstett, who was voting at the time. “And then he went to make a grab for the ballot box.” Quote
waldo Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Are you suggesting that every time an allegation comes forth from the opposition, the Conservatives should just drop their pants and immediately submit to a full cavity search? see Conservative Dean Del Maestro demanding Liberals release information while stupefyingly stating Conservatives don't need to do the same... because he/they know Conservatives have done nothing... nothing wrong... nothing untoward! Quote
capricorn Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 What the Conservatives can be proud of is that this action successfully removed the Special Ballot from Universities.. That's incorrect madmax. This is a news release from EC addressing the question of the student vote. Early Voting Opportunities for StudentsOTTAWA, Monday, April 4, 2011 The federal election on May 2, 2011 takes place after the end of the school year in most Canadian universities and colleges – a busy time for many students. Now is a good time to explore early voting opportunities. If election day isn’t convenient, students can vote early: at advance polls on April 22 (Friday), April 23 (Saturday) or April 25 (Monday) by mail or in person at any local Elections Canada office anytime before election day (you need to be registered before 6:00 p.m., on Tuesday, April 26) To vote, students who have moved to attend school must decide which address they consider their ordinary place of residence – where they live while at school or where they live when not at school (e.g. with their parents). Once they decide on their home address, students should make sure they are registered to vote in that riding. More information is available at www.elections.ca, in the Voters – Ways to Vote section. "We recognize that this is a busy time for students and their families. Elections Canada wants to ensure that students have all the information they need in order to choose when and how they vote," says Chief Electoral Officer of Canada Marc Mayrand. http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=med&document=apr0411b&dir=pre〈=e Elections Canada subsequently recognized that the UofG polling station was the result of a well meaning individual. Voting by Special Ballot on University CampusesOTTAWA, April 15, 2011 — The Special Voting Rules of the Canada Elections Act provide for the use of the special ballot to assist electors in a range of situations. Certain electors, including members of the Canadian Forces serving abroad and electors away from their ridings during a federal election (eg. snowbirds), can vote only by special ballot. The special ballot is also available to all electors who wish to vote by mail or at the local Elections Canada office. --- In light of the focus on youth and student electoral participation at the 41st general election, and on efforts to increase voter interest and turnout among this group, a well-intentioned returning officer undertook a special initiative to create an opportunity for students at the University of Guelph to vote by special ballot. Once Elections Canada officials were made aware of the local initiative in Guelph, the returning officer was instructed not to engage in any further activities of a similar nature. All returning officers have received this instruction. http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=med&document=apr1511&dir=pre〈=e Elections Canada decided to accept the ballots from UofG as an exception to their regulated procedures. This was not a result of the actions of Conservatives causing a change of procedure. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
olpfan1 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Little by Little... drip by drip... -------------------------- In 2010, John Fryer, a member of the Order of Canada and an adjunct professor at the University of Victoria, attended a campaign school training offered by the Conservative-aligned Manning Centre for Democracy. Last week, as news of the robo-call scandal spread across Canada, he was driven to pen a letter to the editor of major Canadian newspapers about the nature of this training. The $249 two-day intensive training program took place from January 22-24, 2010, at the Delta Victoria Ocean Point Resort. The event description on the Manning Centre's website read: "With the potential of an election this spring, the skills you learn at this school can make the difference between winning and losing". March 5: Letters to the editor From Monday's Globe and Mail In January, 2010, my UVic inbox had an e-mail invite from a democracy centre to attend a campaign school. Intrigued, I signed up for the three-day event. Topics covered included voter identification. Discussion ensued about suppression techniques. Instructors explained voter suppression tactics were borrowed from those used by the U.S. Republican Party. Many kinds of suppression calls were canvassed. Another instructor gave detailed explanations of how robo-calls worked, techniques for recording messages, plus costs involved. He distributed his business card upon request. Instructors made it clear that robo-calling and voter suppression were an acceptable and normal part of winning political campaigns. With election ethics like this, a more compelling case for changing to a system of proportional representation where each and every vote counts is hard to imagine. John Fryer, adjunct professor, School of Public Administration, University of Victoria The CPC zombies are now calling John Fryer a liberal hippie trying to discredit this fine man and his allegations Quote
capricorn Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 The CPC zombies Surely, you mean robots. Zombies don't make robo calls. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
huh Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Sorry maybe i missed something... The parties implicated by Elections Canada are.. Racknine. RMG, and the Conservative Party. Ok, I must have missed something too, please provide a direct quote from EC that in some way indicates that they directly suspect the conservative party of wrong doing over this issue. Please, please, pretty please. Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Quoting ANYTHING that comes out of Question Period is laughable. Question period is theater, and it's a joke. It's merely a chance for all parties to get in some pointless political grandstanding. Correction... Anything The Master of Pretzel Logic...Dean Del Mastro,Car Salesman At Large... Says,IS laughable!!! Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
cybercoma Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Well, it would seem that Campaign Research, who are tied closely to the Conservative Party, really are bringing in American-style politics: The instructors detailed different kinds of suppression calls, and how these tactics are borrowed from the U.S. Republican Party. http://www.vancouverobserver.com/politics/2012/03/07/robo-call-scandal-origins-inside-conservatives%E2%80%99-voter-suppression-school?page=0,1 Quote
madmax Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Ok, I must have missed something too, please provide a direct quote from EC that in some way indicates that they directly suspect the conservative party of wrong doing over this issue. Please, please, pretty please. Election Canada is doing its job.... That is why the Elections Expenses of the Conservatives in Guelph are under investigation. Or do you think that Elections Canada is NOT looking at the Conservative Election Expenses and have not discovered that they have failed to Declare the Election Incurred Expenses to RACKNINE. As well as "Honorariums" to "cell phone experts" This didn't come from Opposition Parties..this information is from Elections Canada. And the media discovered this information in Court documents. Quote
capricorn Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Well, it would seem that Campaign Research, who are tied closely to the Conservative Party, really are bringing in American-style politics: It appears Fryer was Elizabeth May's campaign manager at the time he attended that conference. David Akin was an instructor at that conference and has asked Fryer for clarification of what he alleges in his letter to the editor. I was at this Campaign School and others through 2009-2010 where I was paid to lead a workshop on how journalists interact with politicians. There were no discussions about voter suppression or robocalls at my workshop and I did not attend any other sessions. (In fact: I used my “down time” in Victoria that weekend to attend and report on the anti-prorogration demonstrations in that city that weekend).Attendance at these campaign schools was open to anyone who wanted to pay the attendance fee. At the campaign schools I taught at, I met those who were working on campaigns for Green Party candidates, BC New Democrats, BC Liberal, Alberta Progressive Conservatives, Wildrose Alliance members, and federal New Democrats. Indeed: Fryer was working as the campaign manager to elect Green Party leader Elizabeth May in her Vancouver Island riding. (Something he doesn’t mention in his letter to the Globe.) I cannot recall ever meeting someone at these campaign schools who identified themselves as working for a federal Liberal candidate. http://blogs.canoe.ca/davidakin/politics/the-manning-campaign-manual-on-voter-contact/ What are the Green and NDP doing attending a conference run by an outfit with "close ties to the Conservatives"? And if voter suppression tips objectionable to Fryer were indeed passed on to attendees, it follows that those parties would be as well versed as the Conservatives in those "Republican dirty tricks". Something does not seem right. I expect Mr. Fryer will be asked by those he accused of teaching the fine points of voter suppression to provide evidence that what he alleges took place. edit: Akin also provides excerpts of the manual provided to all participants. Edited March 8, 2012 by capricorn Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
olpfan1 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) It appears Fryer was Elizabeth May's campaign manager at the time he attended that conference. David Akin was an instructor at that conference and has asked Fryer for clarification of what he alleges in his letter to the editor. http://blogs.canoe.ca/davidakin/politics/the-manning-campaign-manual-on-voter-contact/ What are the Green and NDP doing attending a conference run by an outfit with "close ties to the Conservatives"? And if voter suppression tips objectionable to Fryer were indeed passed on to attendees, it follows that those parties would be as well versed as the Conservatives in those "Republican dirty tricks". Something does not seem right. I expect Mr. Fryer will be asked by those he accused of teaching the fine points of voter suppression to provide evidence that what he alleges took place. edit: Akin also provides excerpts of the manual provided to all participants. Fryer is a very respectable man but even that won't save him from all of the lawsuits he's probably going to have to fight, the people he accused are going to sue for libel & slander because he can't prove it even if it were true akins nor anyone involved are going to show E.C that Edited March 8, 2012 by olpfan1 Quote
huh Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 Election Canada is doing its job.... That is why the Elections Expenses of the Conservatives in Guelph are under investigation. Or do you think that Elections Canada is NOT looking at the Conservative Election Expenses and have not discovered that they have failed to Declare the Election Incurred Expenses to RACKNINE. As well as "Honorariums" to "cell phone experts" This didn't come from Opposition Parties..this information is from Elections Canada. And the media discovered this information in Court documents. in other words, no,you cant provide any quote from EC concerning an investigation of the specifically the Conservatives, you could have just said 'sorry im wrong, that isnt what EC is doing' but who am i to decide how you apologize. Quote
cybercoma Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 It appears Fryer was Elizabeth May's campaign manager at the time he attended that conference. David Akin was an instructor at that conference and has asked Fryer for clarification of what he alleges in his letter to the editor. http://blogs.canoe.ca/davidakin/politics/the-manning-campaign-manual-on-voter-contact/ What are the Green and NDP doing attending a conference run by an outfit with "close ties to the Conservatives"? And if voter suppression tips objectionable to Fryer were indeed passed on to attendees, it follows that those parties would be as well versed as the Conservatives in those "Republican dirty tricks". Something does not seem right. I expect Mr. Fryer will be asked by those he accused of teaching the fine points of voter suppression to provide evidence that what he alleges took place. edit: Akin also provides excerpts of the manual provided to all participants. CIMS. Quote
Bryan Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 He was also the man who called for the assassination of Julian Assange Do you ever post anything that is actually true? Quote
olpfan1 Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Do you ever post anything that is actually true? I'm lying here? he even admitted to it http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2010/12/01/flanagan-wikileaks-assange.html This is what he said "I think Assange should be assassinated, actually," Flanagan said with a laugh, and when asked to expand upon his answer, added that he "wouldn't be unhappy" if Assange "disappeared." This is him backpedaling "It was a thoughtless, glib remark about a serious subject," Flanagan said Wednesday on the CBC's Power & Politics with Evan Solomon. "I never seriously intended to advocate or propose the assassination of Mr. Assange. But I do think that what he's doing is very malicious and harmful to diplomacy and endangering people's lives, and I think it should be stopped." Edited March 9, 2012 by olpfan1 Quote
capricorn Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 In 2010, John Fryer, a member of the Order of Canada and an adjunct professor at the University of Victoria, attended a campaign school training offered by the Conservative-aligned Manning Centre for Democracy. Last week, as news of the robo-call scandal spread across Canada, he was driven to pen a letter to the editor of major Canadian newspapers about the nature of this training. The $249 two-day intensive training program took place from January 22-24, 2010, at the Delta Victoria Ocean Point Resort. The event description on the Manning Centre's website read: "With the potential of an election this spring, the skills you learn at this school can make the difference between winning and losing". March 5: Letters to the editor From Monday's Globe and Mail In January, 2010, my UVic inbox had an e-mail invite from a democracy centre to attend a campaign school. Intrigued, I signed up for the three-day event. Topics covered included voter identification. Discussion ensued about suppression techniques. Instructors explained voter suppression tactics were borrowed from those used by the U.S. Republican Party. Many kinds of suppression calls were canvassed. Another instructor gave detailed explanations of how robo-calls worked, techniques for recording messages, plus costs involved. He distributed his business card upon request. Instructors made it clear that robo-calling and voter suppression were an acceptable and normal part of winning political campaigns. With election ethics like this, a more compelling case for changing to a system of proportional representation where each and every vote counts is hard to imagine. John Fryer, adjunct professor, School of Public Administration, University of Victoria I was not surprised to learn that John Fryer has averted lawsuits by apologizing for allegations he made in the above letter to the editor of the Globe and Mail. Here is the apology to Kouvalis, Ciano and Campaign Research. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
olpfan1 Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 That doesn't mean he lied, it just means he has no proof Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 I suggest you edit the original post to add quotes around the article in question, and only include the parts that are relevant to your comment. Agreed, I thought he wrote his OP. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
madmax Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 I was not surprised to learn that John Fryer has averted lawsuits by apologizing for allegations he made in the above letter to the editor of the Globe and Mail. Here is the apology to Kouvalis, Ciano and Campaign Research. TOAST!!! People who Embellish for political gain, get burnt and the offenders will get off. I have seen this in Criminal and Civil Cases where the Prosecutor/Litigator go one step to far and then they lose their credility, and even if guilty offender gets off... Quote
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