jacee Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 (edited) http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/pierre-poutine-launched-robo-calls-from-computer-used-by-tory-campaign/article2422997/ More evidence is being uncovered showing that there was no centrally orchestrated national robocall campaign by the Conservative party to suppress the vote. Increasingly, the problems appear to be concentrated in the Guelph area. Except when it's not ... Tories deny deleting robo-call records after NDP invokes Watergate Robocalls probe extends to Tory headquarters Nearly a year after the investigation began, the agency is trying to determine why database records provided by the party appear to be missing entries that could help identify who downloaded the phone numbers used to make fraudulent robocalls, according to a source familiar with the probe. Investigators also are inquiring about a phone call from Conservative headquarters, made the day before the election, to RackNine, the Edmonton voice-broadcasting company whose servers were used to send out the robocalls. Edited May 5, 2012 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 Except when it's not ... Tories deny deleting robo-call records after NDP invokes Watergate So what. The NDP make an accusation and the Conservatives deny it. Get back to me when someone from EC leaks hard evidence that the party intentionally destroyed records to throw off the investigation. Robocalls probe extends to Tory headquarters Dated April 16. Old news that simply traces the steps of the investigation and doesn't tell us anything new. What we've heard so far is that the Conservatives are cooperating with EC and providing them the information they request. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 (edited) It looks like EC has picked the right guys to find out who is behind the calls and it doesn't look good for the Tories. Even if the Tories didn't know anything about this, I would think that once fraud has been proven, the voters will want another election, but I'm not sure what the EC law is on this. http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/Robocalls%20IP%20address%20same%20as%20one%20used%20by%20Conservative%20candidate%20campaign%20worker,%20Elections%20Canada%20alleges/6567696/story.html Edited May 5, 2012 by Topaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 Topaz, your link doesn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 It looks like EC has picked the right guys to find out who is behind the calls and it doesn't look good for the Tories. Even if the Tories didn't know anything about this, I would think that once fraud has been proven, the voters will want another election, but I'm not sure what the EC law is on this. http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/Robocalls%20IP%20address%20same%20as%20one%20used%20by%20Conservative%20candidate%20campaign%20worker,%20Elections%20Canada%20alleges/6567696/story.html Considering the head of election Canada said even in cases of Fraud election results should not be overturned I don't think this will end well for anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/pierre-poutine-launched-robo-calls-from-computer-used-by-tory-campaign/article2422997/ More evidence is being uncovered showing that there was no centrally orchestrated national robocall campaign by the Conservative party to suppress the vote. Increasingly, the problems appear to be concentrated in the Guelph area. I am sure that we will see more evidence and follow where it goes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 Tell you what. I'll stick to bolding and you stick to colouring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 Topaz, your link doesn't work. Look under "most popular" at that link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 Look under "most popular" at that link. see here: Robocalls IP address same as one used by Conservative candidate campaign worker, Elections Canada alleges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 So what. The NDP make an accusation and the Conservatives deny it. Get back to me when someone from EC leaks hard evidence that the party intentionally destroyed records to throw off the investigation. The evidence has been deleted, I am sure we will see the timeline in that it was deleted. It would require A Senior Campaign Operative to delete these files. Prescotts computer has been traced to the uploading and downloading of the CIMS files that the Conservatives say they don't use... but Christian Conservatives Computer seems to have used those files... With the way the Lawyers are ponying up.. it appears there are certain Conservatives are getting the Conservative Lawyer and other Conservatives Ops who will have to find their own legal council.... Are we back to Sona again? I think I pulled him from the poll... best I dig that out again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 The evidence has been deleted, No one said or reported that evidence has been deleted. What was reported is that one of three "Daemon Dailer" lists for Guelph cannot be recovered from CIMS. According to Christopher Rougier, a party worker also interviewed by Elections Canada, Prescott had access to the centralized Constituent Information Management Systems (CIMS) the party used to track voters and donors. Records from CIMS given to Mathews by Rougier ——indicate that Prescott downloaded three “Daemon Dailer” reports for Guelph — a list of phone numbers with voters identified as supporters or non-supporters.One of those reports “cannot be recovered from CIMS,” Rougier told Mathews. http://www.ottawacitizen.com/life/Robocalls+address+same+used+Conservative+candidate+campaign+worker+Elections+Canada+alleges/6567696/story.html Until EC presents evidence that the Conservative Party tampered with the lists, it's all speculation. For all we know the 3 lists reportedly downloaded were in fact 2 Guelph lists and a 3rd list specific to another riding and mistakenly downloaded by the perp. That would explain why it can't be recovered cause they're restricting their search to Guelph data. What boggles the mind is that EC, who claim they can demand all the resources necessary to investigate, are taking so damn long to get to the bottom of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch 27 Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Boggles the mind?? Its pretty simple.. there is NO case for Elections Canada to warrant anything of the such.. This is simply a case of a lone Liberal trying to mislead the publics opinion.. and i dont mean Bob Rae.. No one said or reported that evidence has been deleted. What was reported is that one of three "Daemon Dailer" lists for Guelph cannot be recovered from CIMS. http://www.ottawacitizen.com/life/Robocalls+address+same+used+Conservative+candidate+campaign+worker+Elections+Canada+alleges/6567696/story.html Until EC presents evidence that the Conservative Party tampered with the lists, it's all speculation. For all we know the 3 lists reportedly downloaded were in fact 2 Guelph lists and a 3rd list specific to another riding and mistakenly downloaded by the perp. That would explain why it can't be recovered cause they're restricting their search to Guelph data. What boggles the mind is that EC, who claim they can demand all the resources necessary to investigate, are taking so damn long to get to the bottom of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeyhands Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 No one said or reported that evidence has been deleted. What was reported is that one of three "Daemon Dailer" lists for Guelph cannot be recovered from CIMS. I'm going to have to start referring to you as "the Queen of Semantics". I suppose that the files from CIMS that can't be recovered are just being stubborn. Perhaps if we were to ask them nicely to be recovered they would reconsider? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Boggles the mind?? Its pretty simple.. there is NO case for Elections Canada to warrant anything of the such.. This is simply a case of a lone Liberal trying to mislead the publics opinion.. and i dont mean Bob Rae.. This investigation is turning out to be a pretty good gig for the additional sleuths and clerks hired by EC. The longer it stretches out, the more money they make. Just sayin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch 27 Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 "We are very sorry Canada, Look what they made us do.. We dug and dug and dug for millions in investogation and nuthin! Look what the Torries made us spend".. Typical... This investigation is turning out to be a pretty good gig for the additional sleuths and clerks hired by EC. The longer it stretches out, the more money they make. Just sayin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Dated April 16. Old news that simply traces the steps of the investigation and doesn't tell us anything new. What we've heard so far is that the Conservatives are cooperating with EC and providing them the information they request. That's what the Cons say.Elections Canada says there are missing records and there was a mysterious phone call from Conservative headquarters to Rack Nine: Elections Canada investigators on the trail of the "Pierre Poutine" suspect in the robocalls case have been asking questions about the actions of staff at Conservative party headquarters in Ottawa. Nearly a year after the investigation began, the agency is trying to determine why database records provided by the party appear to be missing entries that could help dentify who downloaded the phone numbers used to make fraudulent robocalls, according to a source familiar with the probe. Investigators also are inquiring about a phone call from Conservative headquarters, made the day before the election, to RackNine, the Edmonton voice-broadcasting company whose servers were used to send out the robocalls. It's more serious than you let on capricorn, and it does point to some involvement at the national office Of course it's apparent that you have a stake in minimizing Con wrongdoing. But to people interested in the truth, it's apparent that somebody at Conservative party headquarters has something to hide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeyhands Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 This investigation is turning out to be a pretty good gig for the additional sleuths and clerks hired by EC. The longer it stretches out, the more money they make. Just sayin'. Money is the issue now??? Wow.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Until EC presents evidence that the Conservative Party tampered with the lists, it's all speculation. For all we know the 3 lists reportedly downloaded were in fact 2 Guelph lists and a 3rd list specific to another riding and mistakenly downloaded by the perp. That would explain why it can't be recovered cause they're restricting their search to Guelph data. what? The Harper Conservative's CIMS database audit/tracking 'evidence' that... apparently... has been deleted? It has been stated the much vaunted CIMS database has robust security and access/change features - like any 'modern database', not only is it difficult to mess with the security/auditing aspects, special restricted privileges would be required to do so. Who had/has those privileges and who would have (had) the authority to "wipe particular/specific" data within an audit trail? as for your want to continue to insist this is an isolated, 'Guelph specific' concern... what about the other '199 polling stations' reporting (alleged) voter suppression... what about those? Where did voter information come from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 "We are very sorry Canada, Look what they made us do.. We dug and dug and dug for millions in investogation and nuthin! Look what the Torries made us spend".. Typical... Are you suggesting that there will be no charges or convictions? Are you suggesting that there was no impersonation of Elections Canada or Elections Fraud? I cannot answer the first question, as there are many crimes committed that will never end up with charges or convictions up to and including murder. But that doesn't mean you don't investigate. But I can answer the 2nd question. There was Elections Fraud. It doesn't matter who did it, as much as that it was done and needs to be identified and stopped. What is interesting , from the very start of this story breaking, is that many Conservative Supporters on this forum have been against any kind of investigation and want this to go away. Others would like it to run its course before passing judgement (which is fair). But for people to suggest... that someones is aquiring the Conservative CIMS lists, the Conservative Racknine Authorization Accounts, and impersonating Elections Canada, but this is just a waste of time, money and effort, are missing the point. Same as those employees who worked for RMG and have sworn an affidavit that they were told to change their scripts to say they were from Elections Canada and these people actually contacted Elections Canada and the RCMP and were ignored the first time. Now it appears there concerns are being taken seriously and for the Conservatives to NOT take seriously that someone is manipulating their CIMS is absurd if not outright incompetent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 That's what the Cons say. Have you heard EC say otherwise? "appear to be missing entries""it does point to" Exactly as I said. It's all speculation at this point. Of course it's apparent that you have a stake in minimizing Con wrongdoing. What's apparent is that you have decided to assign blame before all the facts are in. But to people interested in the truth, it's apparent that somebody at Conservative party headquarters has something to hide. People interested in the truth don't convict without evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Money is the issue now??? Wow.... I stated a fact. Are you disputing that the longer the investigation lasts, the more money will be earned by the extra bodies hired by EC to work on the investigation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 I stated a fact. Are you disputing that the longer the investigation lasts, the more money will be earned by the extra bodies hired by EC to work on the investigation? Yup, its going to cost money. And if there is an indictment it will be worth every penny. What I find interesting is that there is a trail of discussion about WHO heard WHAT in the affidavits so far. And there are parties within the local campaign and national campaign office discussing the merits of voter suppression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) Have you heard EC say otherwise? Here's the link again so you can actually read the whole article for yourself. Robocalls probe extends to Tory headquarters The investigators have inquired about CIMS logs for one particular user in the party's headquarters. The logs show blanks between this person's CIMS logon and logoff on the day the Guelph data was accessed, according to the source. Also of interest is a call to RackNine made on May 1, the day before the vote, from a number in the Conservative party war room in Ottawa The number is listed as belonging to Chris Rougier, who was identified as the party's manager of voter relation programs. ... The call from Rougier's phone to RackNine is the only one the party has failed to explain in detail to reporters, in spite of repeated requests" Exactly as I said. It's all speculation at this point. What's apparent is that you have decided to assign blame before all the facts are in. People interested in the truth don't convict without evidence. It usually is spotty information and some speculation during the course of an investigation, until all the evidence is in and charges are laid I'm interested in what the investigation is uncovering. You're interested only in denying and covering it up. I'd say your behaviour is more suspicious. Edited May 7, 2012 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Here's the link again so you can actually read the whole article for yourself. I'm quite familiar with the contents of the article. Once again I will ask a very simple question. Has Elections Canada said that the Conservative Party of Canada is not cooperating with the investigation? A simple yes or no would do. You're interested only in denying and covering it up.I'd say your behaviour is more suspicious. I got to read your post before you edited it. I suppose you realized you were over the top in accusing me of covering up fraud. You really should take a breath and quit escalating matters to a personal level. It does nothing to raise the quality of your observations and opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Yup, its going to cost money. And if there is an indictment it will be worth every penny. Being a law and order type, when it comes to dispensing justice I don't place a price on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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