madmax Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 hey this whole damn thread is full of robocalls, in & out schemes, stealing election signs among other election no no's so don't tell me to make a new thread junior Sorry, I gotta agree with Capricorn...and use some degree if Civility.... I will be putting you in My Lukin category if you keep up with the childish name calling Quote
Guest Peeves Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 Call me cynical, but I don't think it would make a damn bit of difference. If people will give a party that is found in contempt of Parliament a majority government less than a year later, then this sure as hell isn't gonig to make a damn bit of difference. The voting public set an abhorrent precedent in the last election. Hey Cynical, you wouldn't be a bit premature would you. Where has Harper been found guilty of anything? Best damn government we've had for a century. Quote
Bryan Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 Hey Cynical, you wouldn't be a bit premature would you. Where has Harper been found guilty of anything? Best damn government we've had for a century. I haven't been around for a century, so I can't comment on that. The last 40 years though, for sure, the best by far. Quote
jacee Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) The fact that Andrew Prescott won't talk to Elections Canada and has lawyered up is proof that we need a public inquiry I want the EC investigation to continue to conclusion, and the RCMP criminal investigation too - and anyone who did illegal acts identified and charged and convicted ... and THEN a public inquiry into systemic issues. A public inquiry makes recommendations but does not assign guilt to individuals. I want them found guilty FIRST so no criminal acts get shoved under the rug of a public inquiry. It may be just the Tories this time, but they get to be the bad example to warn other parties to cease and desist such illegal vote tampering/obstruction tactics. Whether other parties do such things or not, it's the massive scale of this operation that got the Tories caught. And it's full electoral, criminal and public inquiry that will clean it up. The Tories' support will deteriorate as the results of EC and RCMP investigations accumulate. While the 'core' may hold - the predatory wealthy don't care about 'illegal' or 'immoral', only about 'win' or 'lose' and controlling democracy for their own profits. - but I'm sure there are Tory voters who will shrink from the scandal, some who 'just didn't know'. At least, no more than we all know that politics is sleazy business. "Illegal", though, is something Canadians do hang their hat on. "Illegal" isn't socially acceptable ... when you get caught. Edited March 10, 2012 by jacee Quote
Topaz Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 The fact that Andrew Prescott won't talk to Elections Canada and has lawyered up is proof that we need a public inquiry Yes, I agree and it wouldn't be surprising that the PMO has talked to his lawyer and told them not to talk to EC and slow things down. The only way through this is an inquiry, were they are sworn in to tell the truth or go to jail. BUT, the longer is takes the worse it going to be on the Tories because they could get this mess done faster and if we do find they are guilty and we have spend millions of dollars, they will end up like the PC and Liberals only worse, no one will be standing to run in the next election. Quote
olpfan1 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Sorry, I gotta agree with Capricorn...and use some degree if Civility.... I will be putting you in My Lukin category if you keep up with the childish name calling I don't care what you do, you are too extreme likening harper to real dictators why dont you have some civility for people whove lived under actual dictators Edited March 10, 2012 by olpfan1 Quote
cybercoma Posted March 10, 2012 Author Report Posted March 10, 2012 Another poll that suggests people don't give a flying F about Robocalls at this point. http://www.newstalk1010.com/News/localnews/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10357992 Hardly suprising considering Jack Layton died less than a year ago and the interim leader for the NDP sucks, while the Liberal leadership convention isn't for quite some time. The Conservatives are the only stable party right now, while the other two sort out their leadership issues, yet they still only score 37% in the polls. That's not a good thing. Quote
olpfan1 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 Hardly suprising considering Jack Layton died less than a year ago and the interim leader for the NDP sucks, while the Liberal leadership convention isn't for quite some time. The Conservatives are the only stable party right now, while the other two sort out their leadership issues, yet they still only score 37% in the polls. That's not a good thing. putin cheated better and got 64% of the votes Quote
UofGPolitico Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 Hardly suprising considering Jack Layton died less than a year ago and the interim leader for the NDP sucks, while the Liberal leadership convention isn't for quite some time. The Conservatives are the only stable party right now, while the other two sort out their leadership issues, yet they still only score 37% in the polls. That's not a good thing. It can be spun a number of ways that is for sure. Ipsos Reid though always inflates Conservative numbers, so I'd be less likely to trust these numbers. Nanos has proven to be the most accurate over the last decade. Quote
capricorn Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 The fact that Andrew Prescott won't talk to Elections Canada and has lawyered up is proof that we need a public inquiry That's stretching it. In any case, I would wager Mr. Prescott's lawyer knows what he's doing and would not block an EC investigation. Meanwhile, looks like the Liberals have their own problems in Guelph. Mr. Valeriote said the hard-hitting robo-call can’t be compared to the fake ones that Elections Canada is investigating – where someone impersonated the election agency and sent voters to the wrong polling station.His staff said that the robo-call they funded was a response to “lies that were being spread about Frank's position.” Conservative MP Dean Del Mastro is alleging the Liberals used a fake return phone number to make the anti-Burke calls. “If he wasn't trying to intentionally mislead the recipients then why did he use a number and exchange that he knew did not exist?” Mr. Del Mastro said the number identified as making the call was 226-209-3758. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/liberals-admit-sending-anti-tory-robo-call-in-guelph-during-2011-campaign/article2365355/ And today: Greg Schirk had written the 33-second automated call off as just another nuisance call, typical of those received during any election campaign.But the Guelph Progressive Conservative candidate in the last provincial election went looking for the message, still saved in his email, this week in defence of a fellow Tory suddenly under scrutiny in the ongoing probe of deceptive “robocalls” during the last federal election campaign. Although Schirk notes the “nuisance” robocall he received is different than fraudulent calls now under investigation, he would nonetheless like to learn where it came from. Schirk emailed an audio file of the call to the Mercury Thursday evening. The call, including a recorded woman’s voice claiming to be “Lori McDonald of Guelph,” expresses concern about a story in that day’s Mercury which indicated Conservative candidate Marty Burke was staunchly opposed to abortion. “The race in Guelph is very close,” the message states. “Vote strategically on Monday to protect our hard-earned rights from the Conservatives and Marty Burke’s extreme views.” Schirk said he received the message April 30, and it was automatically saved in his email as an audio file. That same day, a story in the Mercury indicated Burke was being endorsed by the pro-life Campaign Life Coalition. The story said Burke had answered “no” when asked by the group: “Are there any circumstances under which you believe a woman should have access to an abortion?” Schirk said he decided to release audio of the robocall after a Post Media story Thursday evening suggested a Burke campaign volunteer knew about the fraudulent robocalls before they happened. That story noted Andrew Prescott, who was Burke’s deputy campaign manager, sent out messages on Twitter warning about “voter suppression phone calls” the same day someone bought a disposable cellphone later used to co-ordinate bogus calls directing Guelph residents to the wrong polling stations. Schirk said when he read that story he realized Prescott was referring to the “Lori McDonald” robocall. Prescott, who said earlier this week his lawyer has advised him to stop talking to the media, nonetheless confirmed when contacted by the Mercury Friday it was that call which prompted his series of tweets. Schirk said he attempted to call back the cellphone number which showed up on his call display — 226-209-3758 — but found it is not in service. He said he has not shared the call with investigators from Elections Canada and is not sure whether to do so. http://www.guelphmercury.com/news/local/article/684789--anti-tory-robocalls-received-in-guelph-days-before-election CRTC rules: Telemarketing Rules that apply to both voice and fax telemarketing calls:--- Telemarketers must display the originating calling number or an alternate number where the call originator can be reached (except where the number display is unavailable for technical reasons). https://www.lnnte-dncl.gc.ca/nrt-ntr-eng#link03 Even though it looks like the Liberals were up to no good in Guelph, I'm not calling for a public inquiry. An EC/CRTC investigation will do just fine. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Shakeyhands Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 Even though it looks like the Liberals were up to no good in Guelph, I'm not calling for a public inquiry. An EC/CRTC investigation will do just fine. Hahaha.... I say full public inquiry and I don't believe for a minute that the Liberals had anything to do with it. I suppose the ONLY way we'll know is a fully open public inquiry. Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
eyeball Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 I suppose the ONLY way we'll know is a fully open public inquiry. That's probably why we won't see one. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
UofGPolitico Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 That's probably why we won't see one. Harper saw what a public inquiry did to Paul Martin. He would prefer, I am sure, to not suffer the same fate. The only way a public inquiry happens if EC and the RCMP can conclusively make the argument that the national campaign and people at the top of the CPC were somehow involved in this. Quote
capricorn Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 I don't believe for a minute that the Liberals had anything to do with it. LOL back at you. Liberal MP Frank Valeriote acknowledged the anti-Burke robo-call should have identified it was funded by his campaign. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/liberals-admit-sending-anti-tory-robo-call-in-guelph-during-2011-campaign/article2365355/ Is an admission the Liberals did something wrong not good enough for you? There is also the question whether the calls were spoofed. If that indeed happened, charges will be forthcoming. I suppose the ONLY way we'll know is a fully open public inquiry. I disagree. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
capricorn Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 Harper saw what a public inquiry did to Paul Martin. He would prefer, I am sure, to not suffer the same fate. The only way a public inquiry happens if EC and the RCMP can conclusively make the argument that the national campaign and people at the top of the CPC were somehow involved in this. I suspect the CRTC will also be involved. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
UofGPolitico Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/liberals-admit-sending-anti-tory-robo-call-in-guelph-during-2011-campaign/article2365355/ Is an admission the Liberals did something wrong not good enough for you? There is also the question whether the calls were spoofed. If that indeed happened, charges will be forthcoming. While what the Liberals have alleged to have done in Guelph isn't in the same league as impersonating EC, they still misrepresented themselves and kind of shoots them in the foot, credibility wise, in launching attacks on the CPC which have been alleged to have engaged in misrepresentation as well. It appears it was a concerted effort on behalf of the Liberal campaign in Guelph to not tie themselves to the calls. Valeriote now looks like a hypocrite. Edited March 10, 2012 by UofGPolitico Quote
capricorn Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 It appears it was a concerted effort on behalf of the Liberal campaign in Guelph to not tie themselves to the calls. Valeriote now looks like a hypocrite. It's just a matter of time before they identify the “Lori McDonald of Guelph” character attached to the calls. That should provide great insight into what went on. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
eyeball Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 Harper saw what a public inquiry did to Paul Martin. He would prefer, I am sure, to not suffer the same fate. The only way a public inquiry happens if EC and the RCMP can conclusively make the argument that the national campaign and people at the top of the CPC were somehow involved in this. This is where a GG, a Monarch or a Parliament full of independents to challenge or check the abuse of privilege the comes with the PMO would sure come in handy. What we really need though is a chronoscope or time-viewer. That is the only thing that will ever come close to bridging the yawning gulf that separates the ruled from the rulers. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
TwoDucks Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 It's just a matter of time before they identify the “Lori McDonald of Guelph” character attached to the calls. That should provide great insight into what went on. As you'll notice from this article: Valeriote said the call was issue-based and not about suppressing votes. He added he spoke to Elections Canada about the call and the agency confirmed it complies with election law. So although I agree that robocalls are distateful, he claims to have gotten an okay from EC. Don't let me ruin the strawman you've got going, though. Quote
capricorn Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 As you'll notice from this article: Valeriote said the call was issue-based and not about suppressing votes. He added he spoke to Elections Canada about the call and the agency confirmed it complies with election law. It also says that Elections Canada has not confirmed this. But if Valeriote says so, it must be true, right? Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
capricorn Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 Oh, I hadn't noticed this in the CBC article. Valeriote said the call was recorded by a volunteer from his campaign who used a fake name because she feared retribution from anti-abortion activists. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/03/10/pol-guelph-liberal-calls.html Well then, I guess that absolves the faker and Valeriote. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
TwoDucks Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 It also says that Elections Canada has not confirmed this. But if Valeriote says so, it must be true, right? Well, not necessarily, but do you have any evidence that he's lying? Other than the fact that all Liberals are dirty lying crooks, that is. You'll notice the reason Elections Canada hasn't confirmed it is because it's over the weekend, as well. Quote
UofGPolitico Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 It also says that Elections Canada has not confirmed this. But if Valeriote says so, it must be true, right? He is the all knowing and honest one. He is a snake. I've been told he has no use for his own constituents if they are not of the same political strife as he is. He is a lot more visible at least than our previous Liberal MP was, but he is not worthy of the holier than thou attitude and finger pointing he showcases on national television. This story just proves my point. Quote
waldo Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 So although I agree that robocalls are distasteful, he claims to have gotten an okay from EC. Don't let me ruin the strawman you've got going, though. the poster you're replying to, one building the strawman, is most desperate to 'change the channel' away from the principal focus on voter suppression and impersonating Election Canada. It is most remarkable that most thinking persons are wanting to cast the wide net, to have a full inquiry... yet many MLW Conservative supporters (like the member you're replying to), it would seem, are very, very reluctant to consider the need for a full inquiry - I guess that just gets in the way of building the strawman. Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) the poster you're replying to, one building the strawman, is most desperate to 'change the channel' away from the principal focus on voter suppression and impersonating Election Canada. It is most remarkable that most thinking persons are wanting to cast the wide net, to have a full inquiry... yet many MLW Conservative supporters (like the member you're replying to), it would seem, are very, very reluctant to consider the need for a full inquiry - I guess that just gets in the way of building the strawman. I agree... I also enjoy their other line of reasoning against a public inquiry... "Let the RCMP and Elections Canada do thier work..." It sounds like the standard submission to authority mindset using different players this time... If there's nothing to hide,or better yet,if there's a chance that the potential subterfuge could turned back on those dreaded Liberals,then a public inquiry would be the way to go,would'nt it? Edited March 10, 2012 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
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