.

[Smallc]

Less and less all of the time.

[waldo]

Now we're getting somewhere on the magnitude of the alleged fraudulent phone calls in the last election.

nice personal projection... the article does not speak to magnitude on any level; quite clearly, your quote extract makes note of 700 complaints of a similar nature.

care to take a stab at a complaint ratio relative to actual events... just project a little more, hey?

[capricorn]

nice personal projection... the article does not speak to magnitude on any level; quite clearly, your quote extract makes note of 700 complaints of a similar nature.

Right on every count. "Magnitude" is my word which I used purposely. As in "magnitude" in comparison the 31,000 complaints the opposition and the media have been bleating about. The media continued on the 31,000 complaints meme even after EC revealed the vast majority were the result of a robo-email campaign by NDP friendly Leadnow.ca.

care to take a stab at a complaint ratio relative to actual events... just project a little more, hey?

No.

[Boges]

The media continued on the 31,000 complaints meme even after EC revealed the vast majority were the result of a robo-email campaign by NDP friendly Leadnow.ca.

Is that not the most perfect example of irony?

[Topaz]

I still think until the Tories are cleared 100% that they didn't have anything to do with this, in ANY way, the court of public opinion we have doubts about them. AND...IF they are guilty, did they do this in the past also??

[capricorn]

I still think until the Tories are cleared 100% that they didn't have anything to do with this, in ANY way, the court of public opinion we have doubts about them.

The jury's still out as to Tory guilt. Can't say the same about the Liberals and Valeriote who confessed to using robocalls against a Tory candidate, a campaign worker calling voters using a fake name and failing to identify the calls as coming from Valeriote's campaign. All against EC rules. I wonder what the court of public opinion thinks about that. On your next visit to the coffee shop maybe you could ask patrons what they think about Valeriote confessing to breaking EC rules and report back here on your findings.

AND...IF they are guilty, did they do this in the past also??

Maybe we should investigate back to 1867. Never know what dirt we could dig up about those crooked Tories.

Edited March 15, 2012 by capricorn

[waldo]

Right on every count. "Magnitude" is my word which I used purposely.

yes, clearly... your word... purposely distorting your quoted article. A reference to 700 complaints of a like nature says nothing, absolutely nothing, about the total number of complaints. Again, you're wildly projecting your uber-partisan self.

[waldo]

The jury's still out as to Tory guilt.

yes, the sheer incompetence of Opposition parties working to suppress their support base!

[huh]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/03/15/pol-elections-canada-committee.html

"Mayrand said he has received specific allegations from more than 700 Canadians."

700, seems simple enough, 700 not 31000, but no, lets play semantics with the wording, 700, accept it.

[waldo]

lets play semantics with the wording

are you categorically dismissing, outright, complaints/concerns sent to MPs and copied to Elections Canada... those separate from the EC website submission?

let me ask you the same request, equally dismissed a few posts back: care to take a stab at a complaint ratio relative to actual events?

[capricorn]

"Mayrand said he has received specific allegations from more than 700 Canadians."

700, seems simple enough, 700 not 31000, but no, lets play semantics with the wording, 700, accept it.

I think what waldo is getting at, in a circuitous way (or as another poster called it, the "waldo washer") is that there were other complaints of irregularities not connected to fraudulent or inappropriate calls. Ergo, the number of complaints totals more than 700.

[capricorn]

Here is the complete text of Mayrand's statement dated today.

[waldo]

I think what waldo is getting at, in a circuitous way (or as another poster called it, the "waldo washer") is that there were other complaints of irregularities not connected to fraudulent or inappropriate calls. Ergo, the number of complaints totals more than 700.

in your roundabout dismissive self, are you sure... really sure... you don't want a piece of this: care to take a stab at a complaint ratio relative to actual events?

or how about commenting on your personal threshold on complaint relevancy - what's a number that means something to you... one that you wouldn't be so, uhhhh.... dismissive of? 700? 2500? 5000? 31000?

waldo washer? Are you feeling a bit testy? What's with the personalization? Feeling the heat? Perhaps take a break... just tell the booster club you need some time off, hey?

[capricorn]

in your roundabout dismissive self, are you sure... really sure... you don't want a piece of this: care to take a stab at a complaint ratio relative to actual events?

For the second time waldo, I'll take a pass. Thank you.

[waldo]

For the second time waldo, I'll take a pass. Thank you.

oh, wait... let's try another one... another 'angle' - one I'm sure you'll appreciate. Ya know that there Omnibus Crime Bill, the one Harper Conservatives so trumpeted on the basis of all that "unreported crime". Well... now... how about all those unreported complaints relative to voting irregularities in the 2011 election, hey capricorn?

[cybercoma]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/03/15/pol-elections-canada-committee.html

"Mayrand said he has received specific allegations from more than 700 Canadians."

700, seems simple enough, 700 not 31000, but no, lets play semantics with the wording, 700, accept it.

Three things that you "and your ilk" fail to understand:

1) More than means the number of allegations exceeds 700.

2) The qualifier "specific" means that number which exceeds 700 are allegations that included enough detailed information that it they can be pursued further.

3) The number of people actually affected is not the same as the number of "specific allegations" they receive, which is in excess of 700. It is very likely that the number of affected voters is much, much greater than that.

Of course, absolute numbers don't matter. Whether the vote was suppressed in 1 riding or 308 ridings, it's deplorable and whoever is responsible ought to face serious consequences.

Edited March 16, 2012 by cybercoma

[capricorn]

Three things that you "and your ilk" fail to understand:

"You "and your ilk"? Why don't you just come out and say that what you mean is "you "and other Conservatives". Lard tunderin' jaysus, whatever happened to plain talk?

1) More than means the number of allegations exceeds 700.

Yes, and Mayrand specified that the over 700 also includes "improper phone calls" that are not robocalls. I wonder if the calls placed by Liberal Valeriote's campaign are included there. I also wonder whether some of those complaints were filed by Conservatives.

2) The qualifier "specific" means that number which exceeds 700 are allegations that included enough detailed information that it they can be pursued further.

Here is how EC says it will handle the allegations.

Diane Benson, a spokesperson for Elections Canada, told the Star the agency is now in the process of following up with the individuals who reported the 700 specific instances of wrongdoing.

“The normal process would be: you get the complaint, determine whether it’s an infraction under the (Canada Elections) Act, and you would then contact the complainant to see if there are details and enough information to follow it to the next stage, which would be to see if there should be an investigation,” she said.

“You can’t have an investigation if you don’t have any information to follow up on.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1147046--robocalls-elections-canada-says-it-received-700-robocall-complaints?bn=1

3) The number of people actually affected is not the same as the number of "specific allegations" they receive, which is in excess of 700. It is very likely that the number of affected voters is much, much greater than that.

It's all very nice to presuppose the problem is more widespread than reported and it's a handy fallback position for those who despise Harper and the Conservatives. The reality is EC doesn't act on hunches.

Of course, absolute numbers don't matter. Whether the vote was suppressed in 1 riding or 308 ridings, it's deplorable and whoever is responsible ought to face serious consequences.

I haven't seen one person here say otherwise, even those of "my ilk". What has been pointed out by "my ilk" is that 700 alleged complaints is a far cry from the 31,000 belted out at every turn by the opposition and the media.

[cybercoma]

"You "and your ilk"? Why don't you just come out and say that what you mean is "you "and other Conservatives". Lard tunderin' jaysus, whatever happened to plain talk?

I'm mocking a certain conservative on this forum that uses that tired line frequently.

Yes, and Mayrand specified that the over 700 also includes "improper phone calls" that are not robocalls. I wonder if the calls placed by Liberal Valeriote's campaign are included there. I also wonder whether some of those complaints were filed by Conservatives.

They probably were.

Here is how EC says it will handle the allegations.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1147046--robocalls-elections-canada-says-it-received-700-robocall-complaints?bn=1

Like I said. Just the allegations where people had saved phone numbers, recorded calls, and had other specific details, which is quite obviously less than everyone that received the calls. Some people don't have call display. Most people probably didn't record the calls. Others still probably didn't think of reporting the calls until this became a top news story and they realized what was going on. Still others probably can't be bothered reporting it at all for whatever reason they have, such as feeling as though it's pointless.

It's all very nice to presuppose the problem is more widespread than reported and it's a handy fallback position for those who despise Harper and the Conservatives. The reality is EC doesn't act on hunches.

Why would it be the fallback position for people who despise Harper and the Conservatives? Is this some sort of admission of guilt? Because that sure is what it looks like.

I haven't seen one person here say otherwise, even those of "my ilk". What has been pointed out by "my ilk" is that 700 alleged complaints is a far cry from the 31,000 belted out at every turn by the opposition and the media.

That's because there's a difference betwen the 31,000 letters sent to MPs and EC decrying the misleading robocalls, impersonations of Elections Canada, and voter suppression as illegitimate tactics that undermine democracy and the more than 700 specific and detailed allegations that EC is following up with investigation.

[UofGPolitico]

At Issue tonight were talking about the "rumour" around Ottawa that last week the PM called in all his top operatives and asked them "What do you know, if anything, about this (robocalls)?"

Suggests Harper himself is quite worried about what might have been happening under his nose.

[capricorn]

I'm mocking a certain conservative on this forum that uses that tired line frequently.

I don't pay attention to petty squabbles between posters but I get your point.

That's because there's a difference betwen the 31,000 letters sent to MPs and EC decrying the misleading robocalls, impersonations of Elections Canada, and voter suppression as illegitimate tactics that undermine democracy and the more than 700 specific and detailed allegations that EC is following up with investigation.

As I recall, the leadnow.ca online campaign was to demand a public inquiry.

And to be clear, EC is not conducting investigations into the 700+ complaints. EC is gathering information from complainants to determine if further investigation is warranted. IMO, there is a notable difference.

[capricorn]

last week the PM called in all his top operatives and asked them "What do you know, if anything, about this (robocalls)?"

Question. How would the CBC know about this meeting?

Suggests Harper himself is quite worried about what might have been happening under his nose.

I think you'd agree he should be worried.

[waldo]

The jury's still out as to Tory guilt.

Misleading calls followed identification as non-Tories --- Pattern of calls points to party's voter identification database

An investigation by CBC News has turned up voters all over Canada who say the reason they got robocalls sending them to fictitious polling stations was that they'd revealed they would not vote Conservative.

It is only now emerging that calls impersonating Elections Canada followed previous calls by Conservative workers asking which way voters were leaning. That suggests that the "Elections Canada" calls, which are illegal, came from people with access to data gathered by the Conservative Party, which carefully controls access to it. Asked about that, party spokesman Fred Delorey had no comment and declined an interview

[capricorn]

Looks like the CBC is in competition with Maher and McGregor for a scoop.

[Grey Knight]

Right on every count. "Magnitude" is my word which I used purposely. As in "magnitude" in comparison the 31,000 complaints the opposition and the media have been bleating about. The media continued on the 31,000 complaints meme even after EC revealed the vast majority were the result of a robo-email campaign by NDP friendly Leadnow.ca.

No.

Lots of people could be complaining about every single instance of illegal call. EC said over 700 specific instances. It is very wide spread if over 700. There are only 308 ridings. There could be more than 2 per riding, each affecting many voters. This could be fraud on a massive scale. I look forward to hearing what the Elections Officer has to say at Cttee. provided he is invited. The Tories may block his invitation. It was, after all, part of the 200 page handbook on how to obstruct cttees.

[capricorn]

I look forward to hearing what the Elections Officer has to say at Cttee. provided he is invited. The Tories may block his invitation.

Wrong. The Tories would welcome Mayrand at committee to hear what he has to report.

A senior Conservative government official said later Thursday that the Tories, who control House and Senate committees, are “amenable” to having Mr. Mayrand speak before MPs.

The Commons, however, is rising for a spring break after March 16 and MPs won’t be sitting again until March 26.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/elections-canada-boss-breaks-silence-over-robo-call-controversy/article2371028/?utm_medium=Feeds%3A%20RSS%2FAtom&utm_source=Home&utm_content=2371028