Evening Star Posted February 19, 2012 Report Posted February 19, 2012 Really? Are you also among those who voted for "the best of the worst"? I'm not sure what you're getting at but no. Quote
Guest Manny Posted February 19, 2012 Report Posted February 19, 2012 I'm not sure what you're getting at but no. Simple. "We get the government we deserve." Quote
Evening Star Posted February 19, 2012 Report Posted February 19, 2012 Simple. "We get the government we deserve." I've no qualms at all about the MP I voted for (and volunteered for), although he's not my MP anymore. Quote
scribblet Posted February 19, 2012 Report Posted February 19, 2012 You know, reading through stuff and the title of this thread confirms that those with an agenda really do make stuff up. Actually Toews did not say that those opposed to the bill are pedophiles. He invited opponents to go stand with them, and that is a very different thing. What he said was obviously stupid, but he didn’t call anyone a pedophile, so we should quote what Minister Toews actually said. Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
waldo Posted February 19, 2012 Report Posted February 19, 2012 ...so we should quote what Minister Toews actually said. sure... while Toews now wants to feign ignorance over the actual makeup of the bill! Minister Vic Toews - House of Commons, Feb 14, 2012 Mr. Speaker, all I am asking the member to do is actually read the bill and then be honest with Canadians. That is something he is actually incapable of doing. He is either incapable of reading or incapable of being honest. Quote
Evening Star Posted February 19, 2012 Report Posted February 19, 2012 You know, reading through stuff and the title of this thread confirms that those with an agenda really do make stuff up. Actually Toews did not say that those opposed to the bill are pedophiles. He invited opponents to go stand with them, and that is a very different thing. What he said was obviously stupid, but he didn’t call anyone a pedophile, so we should quote what Minister Toews actually said. Scribblet, where has anyone accused Toews of calling the bill's opponents pedophiles? Even the thread title says "Toews says we support child pornographers", which is a pretty straightforward inference from the fact that Toews "invited opponents to go stand with them". The title is not "Toews says we are child pornographers". Quote
Guest Manny Posted February 19, 2012 Report Posted February 19, 2012 What does it mean to go "stand with them"? Doesn't it mean to join them, to support them? Don't bother trying to excuse Toews of making ignorant, incendiary statements. He's getting what he deserves for saying shit like this. And may I say, the fact that he appears to have not even read the bill he's so outspoken towards makes him look like an incompetent fool. How can we now trust this government to really look after the interest of Canadians? Away with these charlatans and rogues. Quote
Argus Posted February 19, 2012 Report Posted February 19, 2012 I don't care who typed the words in the bill, I want to know where the ideas came from. Clearly not Vic Toews he didn't even know what was in it. My understanding is the people who wanted the bill are the provincial attorneys general. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 19, 2012 Report Posted February 19, 2012 Ha, I totally still thought MPs do read every bill. They don't. And why would they given that party discipline largely tells them what they have to vote for or against anyway? At most, with some exceptions, one of their staffers reads it and then gives them a summation of the pertinent details. BTW, again, with few exceptions, neither the MPs nor their staggers have any particular expertise in the subject matter of the bills, or how the language within those bills will actually impact anything. The only way they generally find out about anything problematic with a bill is through lobbyists calling them up, writing them, or meeting with them or their staffers to explain something they don't like. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
punked Posted February 19, 2012 Report Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) My understanding is the people who wanted the bill are the provincial attorneys general. When has the Federal government listened to the provinces on crime legislation? I seem to remember then shutting out the provinces on the last crime bill they passed so it doesn't pass the sniff test with me. Know what else seems odd to me? This bill is in the same spirit and has the a lot of the same laws that Bill HR 1981 that was just introduced in the US congress. I wonder if it was provincial AG that wanted that one to. Someone is pulling the string and it isn't Canadians, I don't however think it is the Americans. It seems like large multi-national corporations have bought out our government. Edited February 19, 2012 by punked Quote
eyeball Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 When has the Federal government listened to the provinces on crime legislation? I seem to remember then shutting out the provinces on the last crime bill they passed so it doesn't pass the sniff test with me. Know what else seems odd to me? This bill is in the same spirit and has the a lot of the same laws that Bill HR 1981 that was just introduced in the US congress. I wonder if it was provincial AG that wanted that one to. Someone is pulling the string and it isn't Canadians, I don't however think it is the Americans. It seems like large multi-national corporations have bought out our government. Years of opening up trade with China is probably rubbing off on our government and corporate leaders to some extent. Recall our country's trade mission to China that included Internet security officials at a time when China was building it's Great Firewall. Anyone could have seen this coming years ago. We're becoming more like China than China is becoming like us where it really matters. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bjre Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) Years of opening up trade with China is probably rubbing off on our government and corporate leaders to some extent. Recall our country's trade mission to China that included Internet security officials at a time when China was building it's Great Firewall. Anyone could have seen this coming years ago. We're becoming more like China than China is becoming like us where it really matters. This is why I call western politicians liars. Anything they accuse China or any other country, they did it themselves. The difference is, China did it for most people's interest, western politicians did it for several huge interest groups that support themselves. Edited February 20, 2012 by bjre Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
Topaz Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 If anyone is not clear on wha the Bill is a bout here's one view from a chief of police but I'm still against it and if the Tories go through with this, they are gone, and 60% voted against them and 60% have the internet. http://www.globalnews.ca/opposition%2Bblasts%2Bvic%2Btoews39%2Bonline%2Bprivacy%2Bultimatum/6442584281/story.html Quote
Topaz Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 You know, reading through stuff and the title of this thread confirms that those with an agenda really do make stuff up. Actually Toews did not say that those opposed to the bill are pedophiles. He invited opponents to go stand with them, and that is a very different thing. What he said was obviously stupid, but he didn’t call anyone a pedophile, so we should quote what Minister Toews actually said. IF you STAND with a PEDOPHILE, then YOU MUST believe in what a pedophile does, and ONLY a pedophile would believe. He used the language with the torturing of the Taliban, either with us or with the Taliban, or the gun registry etc. This time it back fired. Quote
Topaz Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 Remember when I think it was Harper said other countries are doing this too? Well, he's right and this should worry most people of what the leaders of the world are taking our liberties away from us, right or wrong. To catch the bad guys , the innocent must give up our freedoms, I don't think so. http://www.infowars.com/government-resurrects-plan-to-spy-on-all-phone-calls-and-emails/ Quote
Argus Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 Remember when I think it was Harper said other countries are doing this too? Well, he's right and this should worry most people of what the leaders of the world are taking our liberties away from us, right or wrong. To catch the bad guys , the innocent must give up our freedoms, I don't think so. http://www.infowars.com/government-resurrects-plan-to-spy-on-all-phone-calls-and-emails/ Wow. That is waaaay beyond what the tories have proposed. It might even be worse than what the Australians are doing. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
olpfan1 Posted February 20, 2012 Author Report Posted February 20, 2012 Wow. That is waaaay beyond what the tories have proposed. It might even be worse than what the Australians are doing. holy shit, they better riot over this... Quote
capricorn Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 I love technology, I don't like how it's being used as a tool to know everything about everyone. Facebook is admitedly used for datamining by entities like the FBI and CIA, CSIC, ect ect. Your content you upload to sites may no longer be your content once that is uploaded. Apparently all my videos and music on youtube and soundcloud are no longer soley mine. Read the fine print people. O/T, GH you may have already seen this article about Google. Google Privacy Fiasco Lesson: There Is No Privacy--- It’s All Public You should just assume that if you post it, share it, access it, or store it online that it’s probably going to be seen by some unauthorized party at some point. Maybe it’s by a malicious hacker, or perhaps by a trusted entity like Facebook or Google, or it might be by law enforcement or government agencies. To some extent, you do have some power to protect your own privacy. For starters, you can make sure you understand and implement all of the security and privacy controls at your disposal for the sites and services you use. Next, you can simply choose not to do business with sites or services that violate your trust and breach your privacy. Even if you take those steps, though, and do everything in your power to enforce the protection of your privacy, you should essentially consider everything online to be public. If you truly don’t want certain thoughts, beliefs, personal data, or other information about you to be known to the general public or by any third-parties, you should think twice about whether it should ever be online in the first place. Again, I am not apologizing for Google in any way, or for Path, or for any other entity that might violate the expectation of privacy. I am, however, suggesting that the expectation of privacy itself is optimistic, and that you should not be surprised when you learn that your “private” information isn’t quite as private as you thought. Instead of an expectation of privacy, users should have an expectation that their privacy will be breached eventually. Unless you plan to live some Luddite existence off the grid and simply disconnect from the Internet, this probably won't be the last incident that affects your privacy. http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/250328-2/google_privacy_fiasco_lesson_there_is_no_privacy.html I saw this coming a long time ago. This is one of the reasons I refuse to join Facebook. I have never even logged into that site even out of curiosity. I have also warned my kids not to post anything about me on their Facebook account, including pictures. And they can't hide it from me. My sister is on Facebook and she polices my kids' accounts to make sure they follow my orders. And she reports back to me about stuff they haven't yet told me. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
punked Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 I'm using duck duck go ddg.gg fro searches now, see with Google I can choose to not use them can't do the same with this law. Quote
dre Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) holy shit, they better riot over this... Dont hold your breath! Freedom will die with a whimper not a fight because an incremental approach will be used. We actually lost this fight a long time ago. Edited February 21, 2012 by dre Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
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