Proxy war in Syria

[Guest Derek L]

Your list of civil wars doesn't really help your case.

As I said, it's only a matter of time before someone intervenes in this case. Assad has to go, no matter what replaces him. The death is beyond senseless.

Sure it helps his “case”……..those were all past civil wars, why wouldn’t we involve ourselves in those past conflicts? As long as Canadian natural gas interests aren’t threatened in Syria, really, why should we get involved there?

Edited February 23, 2012 by Derek L

[Wolf Larsen]

So many people are dying in Syria and throughout the Middle East. Just going out to protest to get shot down in cold blood? Enough already!

Syria and the rest of the Middle East need workers revolutions. The workers need to seize power, just like in Russia in October 1917.

[Smallc]

What I meant was that the vast majority of those countries aren't and weren't exactly bastions of democracy.

I never, btw, said that Canada should get involved. I specifically singled out the countries with a major stake.

[Post To The Left]

Your list of civil wars doesn't really help your case.

As I said, it's only a matter of time before someone intervenes in this case. Assad has to go, no matter what replaces him. The death is beyond senseless.

Even if removing Assad from his position, where conservatively a little under half the population (Christians, Shiites, Alawites) still supports him, kills more people than just letting the Syrian people work it out?

[eyeball]

Apparently, a column of tanks has left Damascus and is headed in the direction of Hims. Why are we (by we, I mean the western world, and powerful neighbours Israel, Turkey, Greece, Saudi Arabia, etc) allowing this to continue?

Probably because of economics mostly.

As for us Canadians we trade with nations that are complicit with dictators - we've collectively decided that economics trumps virtue. Otherwise we'd be threatening Russia and China with trade sanctions until they either put their client back on it's leash and...lead follow or get out of the way.

Of course if I was PM, Canada would have long since suspended trade with many of our BFF's for keeping harems of dictators. I'd probably also have thrown much of the executive suite of many a Canadian mining company in prison.

Some of the corporations we've spawned and loosed on the planet are amongst the worst offenders.

Edited February 23, 2012 by eyeball

[Smallc]

Even if removing Assad from his position, where conservatively a little under half the population (Christians, Shiites, Alawites) still supports him, kills more people than just letting the Syrian people work it out?

And what makes you think it will be worse? What's going to happen when refugees of this escalating civil war star to stream I to other countries? This isn't gong to turn out well no matter what, but people like Assad can't be allowed to retain their positions in the face of what they're doing.

[capricorn]

We have no idea what this war is even about, and we know very little about either side. The idea that we are going to show up with guns and fix whatever it is thats driving this (and it will be a pile of different factors) is non-sensical.

We dont know who the good guys are, we dont know who the bad guys are, and we dont even know who the majority of people there support. Your plan to bomb both the FSA, and the regular army will not fix anything at all, just cause more death.

With the information we have in hand presently, that's also the way I see things. And there's this.

On Wednesday Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and his Iranian counterpart Mahmoud Ahmadinejad discussed the crisis in a telephone call, but agreed to reject foreign intervention in Syria.

"The sides spoke out in favour of the quickest resolution of the crisis by the Syrian people themselves through exclusively peaceful means and without foreign intervention," a Kremlin statement said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9099081/Syrian-opposition-warns-outside-military-intervention-may-be-only-solution-to-crisis.html

For the time being, some hornet nests are best left undisturbed.

[Guest Derek L]

And what makes you think it will be worse? What's going to happen when refugees of this escalating civil war star to stream I to other countries? This isn't gong to turn out well no matter what, but people like Assad can't be allowed to retain their positions in the face of what they're doing.

If refugees start streaming into Turkey for example, perhaps we should let the Turks deal with the “problem”.

[Smallc]

If refugees start streaming into Turkey for example, perhaps we should let the Turks deal with the “problem”.

That's exactly what I'm advocating. That said, I'd be happy with an arms blockade from NATOs end. I'm not advocating Canada get involved in the conflict directly.

[Guest Derek L]

That's exactly what I'm advocating. That said, I'd be happy with an arms blockade from NATOs end. I'm not advocating Canada get involved in the conflict directly.

Arms blockade? We’re not selling weapons to Syria. Would you suggest blockading Soviet Russian trade with Syria? Do you remember the Cuban missile crisis? If Russia blockaded arms shipments to Israel, wouldn’t you expect the West to react? Would you seriously contemplate the possibility of going to war with Russia over a Syrian civil war?

[Smallc]

Do you really believe that Russia would risk a war with NATO over Syria? Regardless of whether or not NATO does anything, I think it's time for the Arab League to step up. They say they want action. They should be taking care of this.

Oh, and by the way, last I checked, Israel wasn't killing civilians en masse. Perhaps you're right though. Perhaps it's too early for NATO to get involved. That said, we did blockade arms shipments to Libya.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Smallc

[eyeball]

Arms blockade? We’re not selling weapons to Syria. Would you suggest blockading Soviet Russian trade with Syria? Do you remember the Cuban missile crisis? If Russia blockaded arms shipments to Israel, wouldn’t you expect the West to react? Would you seriously contemplate the possibility of going to war with Russia over a Syrian civil war?

We could suspend trade with Russia over Syria.

[Smallc]

We could suspend trade with Russia over Syria.

Actually, putting pressure on the people supplying Assad with the arms might not be a bad idea.

[Guest Derek L]

Do you really believe that Russia would risk a war with NATO over Syria? Regardless of whether or not NATO does anything, I think it's time for the Arab League to step up. They say they want action. They should be taking care of this.

Would you want to take the chance in terms of a potential war with the Russians?

I thought you just said we (as in NATO) should implement a blockade of Syria……..Now you’re backing away from it? I see your resolve isn’t that steadfast………The Russians would too. So now you want to “subcontract” the problem to the Arab League? They have no ability to project power on the Syrians.

Oh, and by the way, last I checked, Israel wasn't killing civilians en masse.

You're missing the point.........If Russia blockaded Israel, do you not think the West would react?

[Guest Derek L]

We could suspend trade with Russia over Syria.

All things considered, we don’t really rely on Russian goods………But our NATO partners sure rely on Russian Oil and Gas exports.

[Guest Derek L]

Actually, putting pressure on the people supplying Assad with the arms might not be a bad idea.

So where is Europe going to buy their oil and gas?

[Post To The Left]

Yes

Edited February 24, 2012 by Post To The Left

[Smallc]

Would you want to take the chance in terms of a potential war with the Russians?

Russia couldn't really challenge the US, so, I don't see them trying.

I thought you just said we (as in NATO) should implement a blockade of Syria……..Now you’re backing away from it? I see your resolve isn’t that steadfast………The Russians would too.

I don't know what the answer is...and I'm pretty sure the Russians don't care what I think.

So now you want to “subcontract” the problem to the Arab League? They have no ability to project power on the Syrians.

The Arab League, Turkey, Israel. They all have a stake in this really. Syria has many powerful neighbours that aren't happy with the situation, yet aren't yet ready to act. The humanitarian situation, I think, is only going to deteriorate. The more I think about it, the more I realize that it might not make a difference what anyone does.

You're missing the point.........If Russia blockaded Israel, do you not think the West would react?

Sure, but it isn't an analogous situation. I get what you're trying to say though, definitely.

[Smallc]

So where is Europe going to buy their oil and gas?

Doesn't matter to me . Look, I'm just rather horrified that things like this can happen.

[eyeball]

All things considered, we don’t really rely on Russian goods………But our NATO partners sure rely on Russian Oil and Gas exports.

Then our NATO partners are who we should be pressure on.

Shame on them for putting economics ahead of virtue too.

[eyeball]

So where is Europe going to buy their oil and gas?

From us.

[Guest Derek L]

Russia couldn't really challenge the US, so, I don't see them trying.

The Strategic Rocket Forces say different......

I don't know what the answer is...and I'm pretty sure the Russians don't care what I think.

You’re suggesting we impede trade between two nations, such actions can have consequences.

The Arab League, Turkey, Israel. They all have a stake in this really. Syria has many powerful neighbours that aren't happy with the situation, yet aren't yet ready to act. The humanitarian situation, I think, is only going to deteriorate. The more I think about it, the more I realize that it might not make a difference what anyone does.

What has the Israeli response been to date? (Muted for a reason)

And Turkey? They’re going to put the muscle on Syria and Russia?

And what Arab nations are going to go to war against Syria? Jordan? Saudi Arabia? Iraq?

Sure, but it isn't an analogous situation. I get what you're trying to say though, definitely.

Have you ever thought that maybe the “bad guys” think themselves as the “good guys”?

[Guest Derek L]

Then our NATO partners are who we should be pressure on.

Shame on them for putting economics ahead of virtue too.

Are we doing any different? Will Eastern Europeans go without fuel for the sake of Syrians?

[Guest Derek L]

From us.

Not over night (more like ten years)

[bush_cheney2004]

Are we doing any different? Will Eastern Europeans go without fuel for the sake of Syrians?

Syrians do not exactly peg the sympathy meter. I mean hell, Maher Arar was Syrian and look what happened to him!