Newfoundlander Posted February 19, 2012 Report Posted February 19, 2012 Sure they would. Of course, they would disagree with you that early education doesn't promote growth. If quebec was sitting in Alberta's shoes, they'd be just as wealthy. Quebec itself, in world context, is also extremely wealthy, so they're obviously doing something right. They simply aren't sitting on the resource wealth of some provinces. The stats were in a G&M article that I cant find, since I don't remember the title. You're right Quebec is very wealthy, in a world context, as are all provinces, so why do we need such a lavish program? According to the slightly outdated chart in this article, 2008, Alberta and Ontario have the smallest provincial public sector employment rate (per 1,000 population) in Canada. http://www.policyalternatives.ca/sites/default/files/uploads/publications/reports/docs/ccpabc_shrinking_public_sector.pdf Quote
Smallc Posted February 19, 2012 Report Posted February 19, 2012 I believe it had to do with per capita government expenditures. Alberta spends a great deal of money per person, with a total budget of over $42B peer year. Quote
punked Posted February 19, 2012 Report Posted February 19, 2012 So Quebec can afford $7 daycare but wouldn't be able to afford lowering their taxes or their debt? Do you have stats that show Alberta has the second largest per capita government? How do you think they can afford tax cuts? A large part of Quebec's problems stem from growth and people in the work force. Subsidies to day care make it so more people can work and have lead to a mini-baby boom with people have more kids earlier leading to growth in Quebec. Study after study have shown that the day care policy pays for itself. Quote
cybercoma Posted February 19, 2012 Report Posted February 19, 2012 Some serious misunderstandings about the equalization program. We all pay the same federal taxes. If anything, wealthier Canadians are subsidizing poorer Canadians. The Irvings in New Brunswick pay more into the equalization payment program than someone working at Walmart in Calgary. Quote
Jerry J. Fortin Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 Some serious misunderstandings about the equalization program. We all pay the same federal taxes. If anything, wealthier Canadians are subsidizing poorer Canadians. The Irvings in New Brunswick pay more into the equalization payment program than someone working at Walmart in Calgary. That is true! But it is also the relevant point, the rich do not like to subsidize the poor. Quote
MiddleClassCentrist Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 That is true! But it is also the relevant point, the rich do not like to subsidize the poor. The rich don't like any noble cause that slows down their purchase of their next private island. Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
Tilter Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 Is nobody even going to mention that Québec has higher provincial taxes? When you have a lot of people on the take it's necessary to tax higher. Quote
Jerry J. Fortin Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 The rich don't like any noble cause that slows down their purchase of their next private island. Noble cause ??? Hang on, that is not what I meant. What I should have said maybe, is that the tax payer would prefer to pay the minimum amount necessary to satisfy the law. The very rich don't actually pay taxes, it is the working class citizen that foots the bill. That is the guy making noise about stuff, not the 1% at the top. Its you and me, not the truely rich folks. Quote
Argus Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 No, Albertans rarely say anything of the sort. Oh, a few redneck Wild Rose fringedwellers Those redneck Wild Rose types, they're the people who want to, like, balance the budget, right? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 No, phrase that "the east will go insane" Unlike our French cousins in Eastern Canada the western provinces HAVE the ability, financial means & the facility to have almost any industry they want. And yet, they don't appear to be growing any industries. From current observations all they want is to sell their unprocessed oil at the most minimum markup, use their small royalties to make sure they don't have to pay high taxes, and live like there's no tomorrow. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) When it comes to third world aid or equalization, I would prefer giving/transferring the money directly to individuals - not governments. We do that too. For example, we allow people in Nova Scotia to only work a few weeks a year, and then pay them the rest of the year with funds paid by people in other provinces. The apparent aim is to ensure people in areas with no jobs stay there rather than move to provinces which are short of workers. I'm not sure how that's economically rational, but I have confidence in the big brains who run our government. Edited February 20, 2012 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) Uh, equalization means transfer of money to people - not provincial governments. I would apply the same idea to third world aid. In Canada, once upon a time, federal Liberals called this the "Baby Bonus". Then, the federal Liberals let bureaucrats get involved - and it became a tax credit. Don't kid yourself. We still send out cheques to parents every month I was looking at one single mother's file last week after her cheques were stopped by an error. With four kids, half her income comes from the federal government. Edited February 20, 2012 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 Alberta's wealth comes from resources. Ontario's wealth comes from people the banks at a moderate rate of interest. Fixed that for you. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 Child care, and Quebec was running surpluses until the recession, just like the rest of Canada. Oh, and if Quebec can have $7 a day child care, so can any other province if they choose to make that a priority. Quebec was running a surplus? How do you suppose they built up such a huge debt then? Quebec's Debt Highest in Canada Speaking of news items and Quebec. After Alberta's finance minister, Ted Morton, delivered a deficit budget last month, he vowed to visit university campuses and tell students, "You and your parents are spending a bunch of money to help Quebec, and they're paying half the tuition you are." Not only do Quebecers pay less tuition, they also pay far less for electricity, drugs and daycare. Quebec offers a more generous parental leave program than elsewhere, and higher corporate subsidies. It also has higher taxes. These generous perks are coming into sharp focus here in Quebec for another reason: the province's colossal debt, which some are calling an emergency. Toronto Star Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
cybercoma Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 Don't kid yourself. We still send out cheques to parents every month I was looking at one single mother's file last week after her cheques were stopped by an error. With four kids, half her income comes from the federal government. She must be living the high life. Driving around in a sports car and has a summer home, I bet. Quote
punked Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 We do that too. For example, we allow people in Nova Scotia to only work a few weeks a year, and then pay them the rest of the year with funds paid by people in other provinces. The apparent aim is to ensure people in areas with no jobs stay there rather than move to provinces which are short of workers. I'm not sure how that's economically rational, but I have confidence in the big brains who run our government. How is living in 1988 working for you? Quote
Tilter Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 Sure they would. Of course, they would disagree with you that early education doesn't promote growth. If quebec was sitting in Alberta's shoes, they'd be just as wealthy. Quebec itself, in world context, is also extremely wealthy, so they're obviously doing something right. They simply aren't sitting on the resource wealth of some provinces. The stats were in a G&M article that I cant find, since I don't remember the title. They simply aren't sitting on the resource wealth of some provinces.They are but if you exploit your resources you will have too much wealth to be supported by the other provinces. Remember the"insult" Newfoundland & Labrador suffered when the oil revenue first kicked in??--- they expected that their share of the equalization pie even tho they were running surpluses. Quote
Argus Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 How is living in 1988 working for you? How is trying to discuss economics without any knowledge of economics working for you? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 She must be living the high life. Driving around in a sports car and has a summer home, I bet. I'm not sure what your point is, assuming that this time you actually have one... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
cybercoma Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 I'm not sure what your point is, assuming that this time you actually have one... You seem to be showing derision for the amount of money she gets for her kids. My point is that as a society we've decided that we don't want children living in poverty, so we give mothers enough money to stay off the streets. I highly doubt with the expense of 4 children she's rolling in dough. For most provinces, it's usually enough money for food, clothing, shelter, and school supplies and expenses. Children also tend to get sick more frequently than adults, so she's probably spending more money on antibiotics and cold/flu medicine than others that don't have kids. I just don't understand your derisiveness. Quote
punked Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 How is trying to discuss economics without any knowledge of economics working for you? Considering my observation is true and yours is false it is going quite well. Seriously how many weeks do you need to work in NS to get EI please tell me? How about the second time you claim it? the Third? Get out of the 1980s and look at the EI structure we currently have. Quote
August1991 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) So what exactly is the sense of having this program if have not province's are providing better services then have not provinces? If Quebec can afford $7 daycare why do they need equalization?However you slice this and despite how the Constitution is written, Canada is Norway: we share the natural wealth - the chance of glaciers.The last thing that Canada/Quebec/Alberta needs now is a bunfight, or an ugly divorce case. Moreover, if Quebec chooses to use Canada's resource revenues/royalties to attract young working immigrants with children and teach them French while they work, then what is the harm? Is it bad if Quebec has more French-speaking people, and is it bad if Canada has more civilized people? ----- China wants what we have. Even "poor" America is prepared to pay for clean hydro-electricity. This is the moment of Quebec, and Canada. We would be foolish to waste it. Edited February 21, 2012 by August1991 Quote
Newfoundlander Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 However you slice this and despite how the Constitution is written, Canada is Norway: we share the natural wealth - the chance of glaciers. The last thing that Canada/Quebec/Alberta needs now is a bunfight, or an ugly divorce case. Moreover, if Quebec chooses to use Canada's resource revenues/royalties to attract young working immigrants with children and teach them French while they work, then what is the harm? Is it bad if Quebec has more French-speaking people, and is it bad if Canada has more civilized people? ----- China wants what we have. Even "poor" America is prepared to pay for clean hydro-electricity. This is the moment of Quebec, and Canada. We would be foolish to waste it. Has there been any proof that the $7 daycare is helping the economy? It's not like the unemployment rate in Quebec is low. This map from the Globe and Mail shows that Quebec's unemployment rate has consistently been higher then the national average. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/jobs/history-of-regional-unemployment-rates-in-canada/article1702302/ Quote
Smallc Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 But you have to put it in context. Does education help an economy? Arguably, yes. What would Quebec be like without it? We just don't know. You can't compare Quebec to Alberta or Saskatchewan and say, see!!! Quote
Newfoundlander Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 But you have to put it in context. Does education help an economy? Arguably, yes. What would Quebec be like without it? We just don't know. You can't compare Quebec to Alberta or Saskatchewan and say, see!!! Having huge debt isn't helping Quebec. Quote
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