Guest Derek L Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Who said anything about static? You did........Even when Nato planned for a strategic defence of western Europe against the Soviets, the war planning called for pre-emption, spoiling attacks and counter attacks……….In any fight, the secret to success is maintaining the initiative and forcing your opponent to react to your actions………hence the best defence is a strong offensive. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Defending is what you do when under attack. Attacking is what you do when you're attacking. Where's my cookie? Somebody took it from you because you didn't defend it very well. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
greyman Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 To sell their product How do they sell their products? Quote
greyman Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 You did........Even when Nato planned for a strategic defence of western Europe against the Soviets, the war planning called for pre-emption, spoiling attacks and counter attacks……….In any fight, the secret to success is maintaining the initiative and forcing your opponent to react to your actions………hence the best defence is a strong offensive. Where's diplomacy in this scenario? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Where's diplomacy in this scenario? Standing behind a big stick. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest Derek L Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 How do they sell their products? Demonstrations of their product against their competitors and the inherent ability of said product to fill a need of the potential buyer, in this case power points and flight demonstrations……….So where is Dassault’s desire to control the India Government and foster in a war? Is Dassault’s ability to coerce a nation into profitable war better than the Eurofighter consortium and Boeing? Quote
Guest Derek L Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Where's diplomacy in this scenario? The strategic level. Quote
greyman Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Standing behind a big stick. Except you'd rather shoot first, and ask questions later. Smart. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Except you'd rather shoot first, and ask questions later. Smart. Where did he say that? Quote
greyman Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Demonstrations of their product against their competitors and the inherent ability of said product to fill a need of the potential buyer, in this case power points and flight demonstrations……….So where is Dassault’s desire to control the India Government and foster in a war? Is Dassault’s ability to coerce a nation into profitable war better than the Eurofighter consortium and Boeing? Do companies that want to sell you something hope you need what they're selling? Will they try to convince you that you do need what they're selling? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Except you'd rather shoot first, and ask questions later. Smart. I sure don't trust your pacifist strategy to work nearly as well. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
greyman Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Where did he say that? He favours pre-emptive war. Is that a vote for solving problems through diplomatic means? Quote
Guest Derek L Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Do companies that want to sell you something hope you need what they're selling? Will they try to convince you that you do need what they're selling? Are you susceptible to a manufactured need or a defined requirement? A company doesn’t need to sell me on the need to procure food for example……..In the Indians case, the had/have a requirement to replace their aging Mig-21s……..Dassault didn’t establish Pakistan or China. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Explain. The strategic level is one of politics and defines requirements. Quote
greyman Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 I sure don't trust your pacifist strategy to work nearly as well. It's not about being a pacifist, it's about using diplomacy to solve problems, and resorting to violence only when all other avenues have been exhausted. To leap to violence right off the hop is immoral, stupid, and wasteful. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 He favours pre-emptive war. Is that a vote for solving problems through diplomatic means? It can be, War is just an extension of diplomacy.....as is Deterrence. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 It's not about being a pacifist, it's about using diplomacy to solve problems, and resorting to violence only when all other avenues have been exhausted. You are defeating your own argument....diplomacy without military power is a recipe for losing. To leap to violence right off the hop is immoral, stupid, and wasteful. So it's better to feel morally superior, intelligent, and thrifty in defeat? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) This would be marginally believable if it was not posted by a wellf ed person from a warm and secure home. Easy to judge from that privileged place. Easier too when it's true if GDP is any indiacator Avg GDP growth over 10 yrs Canada 2.2 China 9.1 Russia 4.6 http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=66&c=rs&l=en I've been to Afghanistan. The people there have the same aspirations for their families that we do. They are not lazy, evoil or stupid. Oh, so you had to go there in person to realize they were human beings just like us? I could have told you that from the comfort of my warm privileged place. They have far fewer tools to build anything than nearly anywhere else in the world. Worst of all, they have very little in the way of resources to change that situation. On top of all that, various people have been killing their children for 30 years. Including us, from our warm privileged places. They probably have even fewer tools or resources now. Edited February 5, 2012 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
greyman Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Are you susceptible to a manufactured need or a defined requirement? A company doesn’t need to sell me on the need to procure food for example……..In the Indians case, the had/have a requirement to replace their aging Mig-21s……..Dassault didn’t establish Pakistan or China. Who tells the government that their equipment requires an upgrade? Do companies selling you a product create a need? "A defined requirement" is the same thing as "a manufactured need". Quote
greyman Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 It can be, War is just an extension of diplomacy.....as is Deterrence. No, diplomacy is diplomacy...it's talking...it's not killing. War is killing, war is violence. Besides, diplomacy is more cost effective than war. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 No, diplomacy is diplomacy...it's talking...it's not killing. War is killing, war is violence. Besides, diplomacy is more cost effective than war. Yeah, I think we should have just asked the bad men to pretty please be nice to everyone - problem solved. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 "Warfare is politics by other means" - Clausewitz Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
greyman Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 You are defeating your own argument....diplomacy without military power is a recipe for losing. I think we ought to have lots of armed forces equipment, and trained personnel. But military power without diplomacy is a waste of blood, and treasure. So it's better to feel morally superior, intelligent, and thrifty in defeat? I got news for ya...with war-mongering you might win the battle, but without diplomacy, and looking after the bottom line, you'll lose the war. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Who tells the government that their equipment requires an upgrade? The military will tell Government that to achieve their stated objectives they will require x. Do companies selling you a product create a need? No, my hunger does. Companies fill a need. "A defined requirement" is the same thing as "a manufactured need". How so? I need water and food to live (the requirement)......McDonalds can meet that requirement if I so choose. Quote
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