Guest Peeves Posted January 22, 2012 Report Posted January 22, 2012 The King James bible is a great work, beautifully written, oft quoted, given us many an idiom and morals, and is probably the most read (understood? Allegorical?},book of all time. Now as an avid reader of the bible and other religious holy books, and one that has followed various and sundry treatise on the subject(s), I have no problem with the Gideon's desire to unload their books on the public, schools, hotels or cat houses. One parent has complained and I'm pleased to see that rather than stopping a practice as in balls at recess or Huck Finn, the those in authority have not caved to a solo complainer. As an atheist however I wonder at the religious aspect of the thing, I mean after all, even the most widely read book (of fiction?) is a religious article. Should it be dispensed in public schools? The Canadian PressDate: Thursday Jan. 19, 2012 6:48 AM ET CHARLOTTETOWN — Prince Edward Island's largest school board doesn't plan to stop the Gideon Society from offering Bibles to students, after it received a complaint from one parent. Ricky Hood, the superintendent of the Eastern School District, says a parent with a child at L.M. Montgomery Elementary School complained about the Gideons sending home a form to parents asking if they'd like a Bible. The superintendent says the practice of distributing the Bibles has been occurring for 46 years and he says it doesn't affect instruction in the classroom. He also says a single complaint doesn't mean the school board will suddenly act to end the relationship with the Gideons. The issue of providing the Bibles has sparked controversy recently in southern Ontario after a parent objected. In the Bluewater District School Board in Ontario a review is now underway to create a policy on the distribution of religious materials. Read more: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20120119/pei-bible-school-complaint-parent-20120119/#ixzz1kChsWQXO Quote
Guest Manny Posted January 22, 2012 Report Posted January 22, 2012 Makes me remember when I was in grade school and a man came to our school when we had a general assembly in the gymnasium. He was talking on the stage about the bible, and he had a stack of small red bibles on a table in front of him. Then at the end of his speech he said, "Now anyone who wants to have a free copy of the bible can come up here and get one. It's free." So I figured, hey free book, why not? My parents never taught me anything about religion, but I had a curiosity. So I went up and got one! And I still have it to this day. On the inside back cover there was a page that said "I, ___________ declare that I believe in Jesus Christ as my saviour, ... " etc. and I signed it, in little kids handwriting, dated 1975. No harm done. I'm still normal... But taking a larger view today, yes I encourage openness and learning about human culture and religion, so that a person has a context to understand the debate. This should even include the study of Judaism, Islam. All religions. "Religion" should become part of the standard curriculum, to promote understanding. Quote
Jack Weber Posted January 22, 2012 Report Posted January 22, 2012 Makes me remember when I was in grade school and a man came to our school when we had a general assembly in the gymnasium. He was talking on the stage about the bible, and he had a stack of small red bibles on a table in front of him. Then at the end of his speech he said, "Now anyone who wants to have a free copy of the bible can come up here and get one. It's free." So I figured, hey free book, why not? My parents never taught me anything about religion, but I had a curiosity. So I went up and got one! And I still have it to this day. On the inside back cover there was a page that said "I, ___________ declare that I believe in Jesus Christ as my saviour, ... " etc. and I signed it, in little kids handwriting, dated 1975. No harm done. I'm still normal... That's pretty much my story... Although mine is signed Jan.2 1982... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Guest Peeves Posted January 22, 2012 Report Posted January 22, 2012 Makes me remember when I was in grade school and a man came to our school when we had a general assembly in the gymnasium. He was talking on the stage about the bible, and he had a stack of small red bibles on a table in front of him. Then at the end of his speech he said, "Now anyone who wants to have a free copy of the bible can come up here and get one. It's free." So I figured, hey free book, why not? My parents never taught me anything about religion, but I had a curiosity. So I went up and got one! And I still have it to this day. On the inside back cover there was a page that said "I, ___________ declare that I believe in Jesus Christ as my saviour, ... " etc. and I signed it, in little kids handwriting, dated 1975. No harm done. I'm still normal... But taking a larger view today, yes I encourage openness and learning about human culture and religion, so that a person has a context to understand the debate. This should even include the study of Judaism, Islam. All religions. "Religion" should become part of the standard curriculum, to promote understanding. Thanks for the anecdotal contribution. However I'd like a second opinion on your normalcy.. I've NEVER been religious, but religion fascinates me. Not as an opiate of the masses, but rather as to the balance between good and evil it has been responsible for over our history. Even the idolatry apparent in A catholic church is curious to me give the graven image dictates. There are so many contradictions in religion that it has to be the most convoluted, daedal and confusing ideology ever devised. Quote
Jack Weber Posted January 22, 2012 Report Posted January 22, 2012 Thanks for the anecdotal contribution. However I'd like a second opinion on your normalcy.. I've NEVER been religious, but religion fascinates me. Not as an opiate of the masses, but rather as to the balance between good and evil it has been responsible for over our history. Even the idolatry apparent in A catholic church is curious to me give the graven image dictates. There are so many contradictions in religion that it has to be the most convoluted, daedal and confusing ideology ever devised. No one said Roman Catholocism was correct,contrary to anything The Papacy says... Martin Luther hand John Calvin had it right about 500 years ago.... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Guest Manny Posted January 22, 2012 Report Posted January 22, 2012 Thanks for the anecdotal contribution. However I'd like a second opinion on your normalcy.. My "anecdotal contribution", which is only the first paragraph of what I wrote is meant to illustrate that this is nothing new at all. The current generation of adults (maybe you should join us... ) came out of a school system where this sort of thing was common. And we're alright, Jack! Also it seems you missed my second paragraph where I give an "opinion", that I believe these things should be taught, never oppressed. Even the history you mention. The Neo-Liberals would have us silence all discussion on matters of human culture, as though this leads to some form of tolerance. It leads to the complete opposite, naivety and misunderstanding. The fools Quote
Guest Peeves Posted January 22, 2012 Report Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) My "anecdotal contribution", which is only the first paragraph of what I wrote is meant to illustrate that this is nothing new at all. The current generation of adults (maybe you should join us... ) came out of a school system where this sort of thing was common. And we're alright, Jack! Also it seems you missed my second paragraph where I give an "opinion", that I believe these things should be taught, never oppressed. Even the history you mention. The Neo-Liberals would have us silence all discussion on matters of human culture, as though this leads to some form of tolerance. It leads to the complete opposite, naivety and misunderstanding. The fools Yeh I got it. Your post makes sense. I was being myself. In my day , the school day started with a reading from the bible. I doubt it did anything but promote do unto others and certainly as in your cases did no harm. It did interest me in religions. My main complaint about most religious teachings is the dogma, no question goes unpunished. I got kicked out of class questioning the teacher's interpretation of some things, at least they gave me the opportunity, but the bible is and was sacrosanct to most.. Edited January 22, 2012 by Peeves Quote
Guest Peeves Posted January 23, 2012 Report Posted January 23, 2012 That's pretty much my story... Although mine is signed Jan.2 1982... I didn't know one had to make a covenant with a sig. thought it was by tipping. Quote
MiddleClassCentrist Posted January 24, 2012 Report Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) I'd rather books and more subtle ways of spreading the word than Jehovahs and Mormons coming to my door. That is for sure! Edited January 24, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
fellowtraveller Posted January 24, 2012 Report Posted January 24, 2012 Ricky Hood, the superintendent of the Eastern School District, says a parent with a child at L.M. Montgomery Elementary School complained about the Gideons sending home a form to parents asking if they'd like a Bible If the school board chooses to make a mailing list of their children and their homes available to one religious group, they have to make it available to all groups. For that matter, why can't anybody have access to kids and their families via the school? I'll answer my own question: because it is ignorant, parochial and violates their privacy. Saying that it has happened for 46 years somehow justifies the practice is a comment on the intelligence of the superintendent, not the sense of the practice. Quote The government should do something.
Guest Peeves Posted January 24, 2012 Report Posted January 24, 2012 If the school board chooses to make a mailing list of their children and their homes available to one religious group, they have to make it available to all groups. For that matter, why can't anybody have access to kids and their families via the school? I'll answer my own question: because it is ignorant, parochial and violates their privacy. Saying that it has happened for 46 years somehow justifies the practice is a comment on the intelligence of the superintendent, not the sense of the practice. Agreed. Quote
Guest Manny Posted January 24, 2012 Report Posted January 24, 2012 I'll answer my own question: because it is ignorant, parochial and violates their privacy. Saying that it has happened for 46 years somehow justifies the practice is a comment on the intelligence of the superintendent, not the sense of the practice. Hell yeah, but it happens to people all the time, every day. Like when they phone you up and want to sell you a credit card. Who distributed to them your name and number? Quote
Evening Star Posted January 24, 2012 Report Posted January 24, 2012 Hell yeah, but it happens to people all the time, every day. Like when they phone you up and want to sell you a credit card. Who distributed to them your name and number? That's not a reason why public school boards should do this. Quote
Guest Manny Posted January 24, 2012 Report Posted January 24, 2012 That's not a reason why public school boards should do this. What, sending literature to parents? No doubt they get some kind of kickbacks from Gideon. Somebody does. Quote
sharkman Posted January 24, 2012 Report Posted January 24, 2012 If the school board chooses to make a mailing list of their children and their homes available to one religious group, they have to make it available to all groups. For that matter, why can't anybody have access to kids and their families via the school? I'll answer my own question: because it is ignorant, parochial and violates their privacy. Saying that it has happened for 46 years somehow justifies the practice is a comment on the intelligence of the superintendent, not the sense of the practice. The Gideons are not mailing forms to parents, the forms are sent home with the students, just like a field trip form or whatever else, at least that's the practice in BC. Quote
fellowtraveller Posted January 24, 2012 Report Posted January 24, 2012 The Gideons are not mailing forms to parents, the forms are sent home with the students, just like a field trip form or whatever else, at least that's the practice in BC. Not in Alberta, or at least not in our school district. And solicitation for a school sanctioned outing is very far indeed from religious solicitation. Do the schools allow the Muslims, Druids, Satan worshippers, Apple Corp or NAMBLA to send home literature too? Why not? Quote The government should do something.
sharkman Posted January 24, 2012 Report Posted January 24, 2012 Not in Alberta... what? Are you saying that in Alberta the School or the Gideons send a form through the mail But suggesting that NABLA should be taken on the same footing as the Gideons is silly. Quote
fellowtraveller Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Not in Alberta... what? Are you saying that in Alberta the School or the Gideons send a form through the mail But suggesting that NABLA should be taken on the same footing as the Gideons is silly. No, I am saying that overtly religious groups should not be allowed to prostelytize through the classrooms. Not for Jesus, not for Allah, not for Satan. Not for NAMBLA either. But I am glad you agree that a line must be drawn for sending home material via gullible children, now all that is needed is where to draw it. In the spirit of fairness, lets draw it here: nobody is allowed to sell or give away crap including religious artifacts via kiddies in school. Agreed? Edited January 25, 2012 by fellowtraveller Quote The government should do something.
sharkman Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 Then I guess I was right in correcting the wrong assumption that the school districts were giving out mailing lists to the Gideons and no one else. I don't see anything wrong with giving children a new testament if their parents okay it and they want one. It's not like it's forced upon them or something. However, I do see something wrong with giving children literature from the National Association of Man Boy Love, since it's an illegal organization, and promotes the kind of activity that the college footbal coach got in trouble for. Or are you okay with that? Quote
fellowtraveller Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 Or are you okay with that? No, I have already expalined that I reject any outside group gaining access to families via their children at schools with the school superintendents active connivance.It is not a mailing list, it is even worse as it does comes home clutched in Timmys pudgy little fist. It looks official, and in a way it is snce it has the support of the school. That is sick and despicable. If the Gideons wish to give away Bibles, a public school is the wrong place for it.I see everyhting wrong with handing out Bibles or Korans or Torahs via a public shcool. The Gideons are qwuite capable of narketing their dogma door to door, social media, Internet etc. Quote The government should do something.
fellowtraveller Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 Back to the OP: Gideon hand outs to be celebrated or scorned? Neither. They should be banned from any presence in schools unless the specific school has an overt and public religious focus. Quote The government should do something.
Smallc Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Completely agree, fellow traveler. The practice has no place in the public school system in the present day. I don't think many parents who approve of the Bible being sent home would approve of it if it were the Koran. Edited January 25, 2012 by Smallc Quote
sharkman Posted January 26, 2012 Report Posted January 26, 2012 Back to the OP: Gideon hand outs to be celebrated or scorned? Neither. They should be banned from any presence in schools unless the specific school has an overt and public religious focus. This is the kind of attitude that leads toward book burnings. Quote
Smallc Posted January 26, 2012 Report Posted January 26, 2012 This is the kind of attitude that leads toward book burnings. How so? If anything, it's the exact opposite. Bibles do not belong in school, and should not be distributed there. Quote
Guest Manny Posted January 26, 2012 Report Posted January 26, 2012 This is the neo-political attitude that makes books illegal. Information that threatens our ideology, or world view must be suppressed. The bible no less! Let me ask another question, should the books by Dawkins also be "not allowed" in schools? Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.