I wondered how 'it' would be abused

[Guest Peeves]

When this laughable concession to our sensibilities was initiated I thought it to be IMHO, demeaning and bigoted in that natives are to be considered less responsible for criminal acts than their brother citizens. Natives were being set aside as in need of different rules, laws and justice.

That being bad enough, the practice of a concession native circle for a murderous Haitian rapist goes beyond the pale.

Each time a criminal, a murderer a rapist is given more rights, the family victims are faced with more salt in their wounds. ENOUGH!

..truncated, more at link....convicted murderer Gregory Bromby faces a Winnipeg parole board on Wednesday, the hearing will be conducted in a circle rather than across a table, the smell of burning sweetgrass, cedar or tobacco will likely fill the room due to a ceremonial process known as “smudging” and an aboriginal elder will open and close the hearing with a prayer.

Bromby has requested an “aboriginal elder-assisted parole board hearing.”

The thing is, the Haitian-born 34-year-old is not aboriginal.

“It is making a mockery of the system,” said Michael Manning, the father of 15-year-old Tara Manning, who was raped and stabbed 51 times by Bromby, a former boyfriend, in her Dorval, Que., bedroom in 1994.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/17/haitian-born-killer-granted-aboriginal-parole-hearing/

[Scotty]

Absolutely ridiculous. And instead of focusing on 'healing' violent criminal natives maybe we ought to focus on their broken societies and cultures. Those who hurt others need to be severely punished, no matter how bad their childhood or how unhappy their lives were. Making excuses for natives, or in this case a Haitian, is what someone called 'the liberal bigotry of low expectations'. Ie, we can't hold them to our standards because they're just not as good as us.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Charles Anthony
deleted re-copied Opening Post

[sharkman]

In this area, the system is most definitely broken.

[jbg]

Great argument for capital punishment.

[jacee]

Absolutely ridiculous. And instead of focusing on 'healing' violent criminal natives maybe we ought to focus on their broken societies and cultures. Those who hurt others need to be severely punished, no matter how bad their childhood or how unhappy their lives were. Making excuses for natives, or in this case a Haitian, is what someone called 'the liberal bigotry of low expectations'. Ie, we can't hold them to our standards because they're just not as good as us.

I don't see how that applies to this situation. There's no difference in "expectations" or decision-making here, just a different format for a parole hearing.

[huh]

I don't see how that applies to this situation. There's no difference in "expectations" or decision-making here, just a different format for a parole hearing.

]The different format wouldn't exist without the different expectations.

[Guest Peeves]

I don't see how that applies to this situation. There's no difference in "expectations" or decision-making here, just a different format for a parole hearing.

That's rather inane isn't it? Why take that route if it were not advantageous in some respect.

Never mind.

[Wilber]

The guy has raped at least three women and murdered a fourth. They should be having a dangerous offender hearing, not a touchy feely parole hearing. What a joke.

[eyeball]

Whenever I see these sorts of stories I'm always left wondering if the official or board that allows such things is deliberately disturbing the shit and trying to undermine the parole systems credibility. There's no way to know given the blanket of secrecy that shrouds everything the state does.

Mr. Manning said he has not been given any explanation for Bromby’s special request “for privacy reasons.”

I suppose it goes without saying the intended effect is to engineer a society that is filled with a righteous indignation and a desire for a vengeance system treats all offenders the same, which is to say very harshly.

[AngusThermopyle]

Well this is interesting. My take on it, being what some would call harsh and cold, is that rape and murder are not merely youthfull indiscretions or a lapse of judgement. From my perspective I see them more along the lines of being cold, calculated sociopathic actions. As such I really don't give a shit about this pricks expectations of privacy, nor his preference for spiritually pleasing formats. In fact I wonder why anyone at all would even give a damn about anything he wants. He raped at least three women, brutally murdered a kid. What the hell? Why do we as a society even bother entertaining any consideration for any such as him. Lock him up and throw away the key.

Its just my perspective but it appears that the victims are irrelevant and the only considerations worthy of respect appear to be the wishes of this worthless waste of skin.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone here actually believe a few prayers and burning some grass will actually change the fundamental nature of a creature like this?

[AngusThermopyle]

I suppose it goes without saying the intended effect is to engineer a society that is filled with a righteous indignation and a desire for a vengeance system treats all offenders the same, which is to say very harshly.

Thank you eyeball, now I see the light. Yes, we should not treat him harshly, really. Whats a few rapes and a brutally murdered kid in the big scheme of things after all? Perhaps it would be better to give him a pat on the back and a job very well done instead.

[Argus]

Thank you eyeball, now I see the light. Yes, we should not treat him harshly, really. Whats a few rapes and a brutally murdered kid in the big scheme of things after all? Perhaps it would be better to give him a pat on the back and a job very well done instead.

I don't think that was his point. I don't think he has the least sympathy for this guy. I think he sees this as so outrageous he wonders if someone in the system is allowing it simply to discredit accommodations made towards natives/minorities or whatnot.

I don't think that's a serious consideration, though. I think that whoever came up with the idea of native healing parole hearings never considered that a non-native might want in on the fun. However, it illustrates that the system is far friendlier and less confrontational towards a native seeking parole than it would be if the criminal in question were white. Now do some natives deserve a break? Sure. So do some whites and blacks and browns.

The only break this guy deserves is between the shoulders and chin, though.

[The_Squid]

Thank you eyeball, now I see the light. Yes, we should not treat him harshly, really. Whats a few rapes and a brutally murdered kid in the big scheme of things after all? Perhaps it would be better to give him a pat on the back and a job very well done instead.

you completely missed his point....

[eyeball]

I don't think that was his point. I don't think he has the least sympathy for this guy. I think he sees this as so outrageous he wonders if someone in the system is allowing it simply to discredit accommodations made towards natives/minorities or whatnot.

I don't think that's a serious consideration, though.

How would we ever know given the secretive nature of the processes that vet these seemingly outrageous decisions?

I think that whoever came up with the idea of native healing parole hearings never considered that a non-native might want in on the fun.

Why not? Non-natives marry natives and have kids and relations amongst native communities all the time. Native population are the fastest growing in Canada so I would expect more non-native inclusion in native justice systems over time not less.

However, it illustrates that the system is far friendlier and less confrontational towards a native seeking parole than it would be if the criminal in question were white.

So this decision is like a two-fer-one-deal, it's just pushed a different button in your case is all. Given the far greater number of natives that are incarcerated in Canada than non-natives I'd kind of doubt that it's friendlier or less confrontational at all.

Now do some natives deserve a break? Sure. So do some whites and blacks and browns.

The only break this guy deserves is between the shoulders and chin, though.

It's the parole system not to mention other parts of our criminal justice system that could use a break from being eroded under the steady rain of outrage being directed at it by people who hate it.

I certainly don't see why this process couldn't also be helped along with a little extra-judicious undermining from within. The people on these boards are political appointees after all aren't they?

[eyeball]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone here actually believe a few prayers and burning some grass will actually change the fundamental nature of a creature like this?

I certainly have my doubts, just in case you still didn't get that.

[Wilber]

It's the parole system not to mention other parts of our criminal justice system that could use a break from being eroded under the steady rain of outrage being directed at it by people who hate it.

I certainly don't see why this process couldn't also be helped along with a little extra-judicious undermining from within. The people on these boards are political appointees after all aren't they?

It's not about hating a system, it's about people wanting a system they can respect. They see the justice system as too much of an old boys club that makes its own rules and has put victims at the bottom of its priority list.

[eyeball]

It's not about hating a system, it's about people wanting a system they can respect. They see the justice system as too much of an old boys club that makes its own rules and has put victims at the bottom of its priority list.

You must be talking about the parts devoted (if such a word applies) to white collar criminals.

I guess the bottom line for me is that I want a justice system that is based on knowledge and real expertise instead of outrage.

[cybercoma]

I don't see the problem, given this part of the article:

“The [elder’s] role is not to advocate on behalf of the offender, their role is to assist the board in greater understanding of spiritual decisions.”

It seems they're just turning the hearing into a sort of "spiritual" process. The article makes it clear that the inmate needs to show a commitment to aboriginal religious practices and way of life. Whatever that means. I'm not sure how you would prove it.

Ultimately, the parole board still makes its own decision here. I would wait until they make a decision before passing judgment on the process. Otherwise, you just come off as hating Native religion and culture. After all, it is the parole board's decision that we're most concerned about here, isn't it?

[dre]

I don't see the problem, given this part of the article:

It seems they're just turning the hearing into a sort of "spiritual" process. The article makes it clear that the inmate needs to show a commitment to aboriginal religious practices and way of life. Whatever that means. I'm not sure how you would prove it.

Ultimately, the parole board still makes its own decision here. I would wait until they make a decision before passing judgment on the process. Otherwise, you just come off as hating Native religion and culture. After all, it is the parole board's decision that we're most concerned about here, isn't it?

Elder-assisted hearings use the “risk-assessment framework” followed by the parole board in deciding the release of an offender, said Mr. Sears. It is only the process that changes.

Yup. Sounds like much to do about nothing.

[Wilber]

You must be talking about the parts devoted (if such a word applies) to white collar criminals.

I guess the bottom line for me is that I want a justice system that is based on knowledge and real expertise instead of outrage.

This is a white collar crime? The whole idea is nonsense. Basically they are saying he is entitled to a different process because he all of a sudden got religion by embracing aboriginal culture. Or does it mean that embracing embracing aboriginal culture was responsible for his crimes? I want a justice system that doesn't see victims as an inconvenience.

[cybercoma]

This is a white collar crime? The whole idea is nonsense. Basically they are saying he is entitled to a different process because he all of a sudden got religion by embracing aboriginal culture. Or does it mean that embracing embracing aboriginal culture was responsible for his crimes? I want a justice system that doesn't see victims as an inconvenience.

How are the victims an inconvenience here? How is this new process an "entitlement"? You make it sound like a benefit, when really there is very little difference. The parole board still decides and the risk-assessment model is still used.

[eyeball]

This is a white collar crime? The whole idea is nonsense.

Once again, would it be too much trouble to ask moderators to install a sarcasm smilie on this forum?

I didn't say this was a white collar crime Wilber. I was facetiously implying that any old boys club that exists in our judicial process is devoted to punishing white collar criminals.

Basically they are saying he is entitled to a different process because he all of a sudden got religion by embracing aboriginal culture. Or does it mean that embracing embracing aboriginal culture was responsible for his crimes?

As I pointed out we don't know because the process was kept secret out of the board's concerns for privacy. I just don't buy that explanation in a case where the decision is so obviously controversial.

I want a justice system that doesn't see victims as an inconvenience.

I want a justice system that doesn't see an outraged ignorant mob howling for vengeance as a convenience.

[Wilber]

I want a justice system that doesn't see an outraged ignorant mob howling for vengeance as a convenience.

So anyone who has any criticism of our justice system or any of its decisions is just part of an ignorant mob howling for vengeance. Got it, they don't have to explain anything. What a great job.

[Wilber]

How are the victims an inconvenience here? How is this new process an "entitlement"? You make it sound like a benefit, when really there is very little difference. The parole board still decides and the risk-assessment model is still used.

You're right, they aren't. As they aren't even informed or considered in this process it seems they don't even rate as an inconvenience.

[cybercoma]

You're right, they aren't. As they aren't even informed or considered in this process it seems they don't even rate as an inconvenience.

The court uses a "risk assessment" model for helping to determine parole. What's to consider? Do you think victims or their families should determine the punishments for all criminals? Frankly, I think that's just a bit silly, since they obviously can't be unbiased.