capricorn Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 So you have no problem with Mulcair's French citizenship then, considering that he's lived and worked in Canada his whole life? Cool, glad we're on the same page. I can tolerate MPs having dual citizenship. Not so for our Prime Minister. Any MP making it to the PM's chair should hold Canadian citizenship only. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
punked Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 I can tolerate MPs having dual citizenship. Not so for our Prime Minister. Any MP making it to the PM's chair should hold Canadian citizenship only. Yah it isn't like we have had a recent head of State someone who has the power to shut down our government and has even exercised that power who has had Dual Citizenship right.....RIGHT....RIGHT! Wait Harpers buddy Michaëlle Jean the actual head of our government who shut down our parliament had dual citizenship and yet Capricorn never cared? go figure. Quote
Boges Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 Yah it isn't like we have had a recent head of State someone who has the power to shut down our government and has even exercised that power who has had Dual Citizenship right.....RIGHT....RIGHT! Wait Harpers buddy Michaëlle Jean the actual head of our government who shut down our parliament had dual citizenship and yet Capricorn never cared? go figure. Harper didn't nominate Jean so I'm not sure why you called her his buddy. I think more was made that her husband had French citizenship and was seen as a separtist. The GG is only a figurehead is there any instance in the history of our country where the GG or Queen didn't do what the PM told them? Quote
capricorn Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 Wait Harpers buddy Michaëlle Jean the actual head of our government who shut down our parliament had dual citizenship and yet Capricorn never cared? go figure. How would you know whether I cared or not? That was in 2005 and I wasn't even a member then. In any case, Jean gave up her French citizenship when she became GG and at the time that pleased me very much. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
cybercoma Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 Yah it isn't like we have had a recent head of State someone who has the power to shut down our government and has even exercised that power who has had Dual Citizenship right.....RIGHT....RIGHT! Wait Harpers buddy Michaëlle Jean the actual head of our government who shut down our parliament had dual citizenship and yet Capricorn never cared? go figure. She renounced her French citizenship before she took office. Quote
punked Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 She renounced her French citizenship before she took office. Got it if Mulcair gets rid of his French Citizenship you could care less? Quote
cybercoma Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 You really think that those who don't like the idea of a PM or possible PM with split loyalties are even thinking about his or her children? Again, you REALLY like to make stretches! Mulcair said he did so 20 years ago after an unsettling incident at Spain's Madrid airport, where he was separated for 30 minutes from his wife and two then-young children because he was travelling on a Canadian passport while they had both Canadian and French passports."Frankly, it sent a shiver down my spine not to have the same travel documents as my kids and my wife." I'm not sure if you've ever encountered the issue, but if you have different citizenship from the children that you're taking across international borders, it creates quite a headache. He probably had to jump through a bunch of hoops proving that they were actually his children and explain why they were French citizens, but he was not. So, like I said, those that question his French citizenship, knowing full well why he got it, must hate his children because they would effectively make it much more difficult for their father to travel with them to see their family in France. Mulcair made a conscious, adult choice to split his loyalties Mulcair is more loyal to this country than you or Harper. Mulcair pointed out that he fought for Canada through two referendums on Quebec independence. By contrast he recalled that Harper once co-authored an open letter urging Alberta to build a "firewall" around the province. He has lived and worked in Canada his entire life. He's a Member of Parliament and fought for Canadian nationalism during the sovereignty referenda. This is a man who has been loyal to this country his entire life. More loyal than many Canadians with only Canadian citizenship, especially Stephen Harper who has written extensively on how much he hates Canada. Quote
PIK Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 He asks us to choose him. Is it too much to ask that he choose us? http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/01/18/andrew-coyne-is-singular-citizenship-too-much-to-ask-of-a-potential-pm/ This guy nails it. Imagine when kennedy gave his speech about ''what can you do for your country instead of what your country can do for you. I do not like the idea of citizens listening to that and wondering ''which one''. As a soldier said, I was born in britain but moved to canada, he become a member of the army and when asked what would happen if we went to war with britain, he said I would fight for canada, that is the last citizenship I had, mulcairs last citizenship is french, he was not born there he sought it out. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
cybercoma Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) He asks us to choose him. Is it too much to ask that he choose us? http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/01/18/andrew-coyne-is-singular-citizenship-too-much-to-ask-of-a-potential-pm/ How is he not choosing Canada? He's more loyal to this country than Harper. He applied for dual-citizenship to make it easier to travel with his children because they're dual-citizens. The argument that he's not loyal to Canada because he holds dual-citizenship holds no water and it's insulting to everyone in Canada that holds dual-citizenship. No one would have brought it up if it was British citizenship and John Turner was PM with dual-citizenship. Edited January 19, 2012 by cybercoma Quote
Wild Bill Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 Harper didn't nominate Jean so I'm not sure why you called her his buddy. I think more was made that her husband had French citizenship and was seen as a separtist. The GG is only a figurehead is there any instance in the history of our country where the GG or Queen didn't do what the PM told them? No kidding, Boges! Her husband hung out with murderers! What more needed to be said? Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
prairiechickin Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 My my, four pages on this? What a great to-do over nothing. The guy married a French woman, then applied for duel-citizenship to make it easier to travel back to France so the kids could see Grandma and Grandpa, and people question his loyalty to Canada? Give your head a shake. Quote
cybercoma Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 My my, four pages on this? What a great to-do over nothing. The guy married a French woman, then applied for duel-citizenship to make it easier to travel back to France so the kids could see Grandma and Grandpa, and people question his loyalty to Canada? Give your head a shake. Not just his loyalty to Canada, Harper clearly questioned the loyalty of every Canadian that holds dual-citizenship. I wonder how Tony Clement feels about that. How could Harper have such a disloyal MP in his cabinet? Quote
Evening Star Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 Harper didn't nominate Jean so I'm not sure why you called her his buddy. I think more was made that her husband had French citizenship and was seen as a separtist. The GG is only a figurehead is there any instance in the history of our country where the GG or Queen didn't do what the PM told them? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%932009_Canadian_parliamentary_dispute I'm guessing this is why Jean was brought up in the first place. See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King-Byng_Affair http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Tupper#Prime_Minister_of_Canada.2C_May.E2.80.93July_1896 Quote
William Ashley Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 There is a clear difference between Dion and Mulclair, Mulclair is Irish French and speaks English without an Irish or French Accent. I bet he would get a higher score on a Toefl test too. Quote I was here.
William Ashley Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 The fact he is Irish sould be more concerning, you know who the last Irish French PM was.... way bigger than being Dion French. Quote I was here.
William Ashley Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 The fact he is Irish sould be more concerning, you know who the last Irish French PM was.... way bigger than being Dion French. Just close your eyes and bring yourself back 1 now 2 now 3 decades... hours later.. its ok you can stop screaming and crying now, the liberals are here. http://archives.cbc.ca/politics/prime_ministers/topics/1469/ Quote I was here.
g_bambino Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 Yah it isn't like we have had a recent head of State someone who has the power to shut down our government and has even exercised that power who has had Dual Citizenship right.....RIGHT....RIGHT! Wait Harpers buddy Michaëlle Jean the actual head of our government who shut down our parliament had dual citizenship... The Queen doesn't hold any citizenship. ....Oh, wait, by "head of state" you meant the governor general; Michaëlle Jean, specifically. Well, you obviously don't recall: she renounced her French citizenship before her appointment as vicereine. You also don't seem to understand the constitutional part in constitutional monarchy. Even if she had retained her dual citizenship, there's essentially nothing she could have done within the limits of the law to greatly favour France at Canada's expense, not without ministerial or parliamentary direction; certainly nothing like dismissing parliament or deploying the military. At best, she could've promoted French wines over Canadian ones, or something like that. Anything more for too long and she'd likely have found herself swiftly replaced. Quote
g_bambino Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) It still doesn't make any sense that having dual-citizenship would lead to anyone creating "bad" policy. They still need to win elections and they still need their policies supported by the party, parliament, the Senate, and the Constitution. After thinking about it further, the above does seem to be the most pertinent observation. A prime minister with dual citizenship who starts implementing policy in Canada that favours the country that is not Canada would probably quickly find himself out of a job, having lost the confidence of parliament or dismissed by the governor general for offering illegal advice. He may well owe allegiance to a foreign power, but he also, by virtue of being citizen of Canada, as well as through swearing the oath of admission to the Privy Council and the oath taken by ministers, owes allegiance to the Queen and the laws and conventions of this country, including those that bind the office of prime minister. It thus isn't really even a matter of citizenship at all, but focus; Hell, the prime minister isn't even required to be a citizen of Canada. But, the system is such that a prime minister of Canada who doesn't put Canada before any other country will not be prime minister of Canada for very long. [+] Edited January 19, 2012 by g_bambino Quote
punked Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 The Queen doesn't hold any citizenship. ....Oh, wait, by "head of state" you meant the governor general; Michaëlle Jean, specifically. Well, you obviously don't recall: she renounced her French citizenship before her appointment as vicereine. You also don't seem to understand the constitutional part in constitutional monarchy. Even if she had retained her dual citizenship, there's essentially nothing she could have done within the limits of the law to greatly favour France at Canada's expense, not without ministerial or parliamentary direction; certainly nothing like dismissing parliament or deploying the military. At best, she could've promoted French wines over Canadian ones, or something like that. Anything more for too long and she'd likely have found herself swiftly replaced. Yah you worried about France. Don't you think if Mulcair wanted to help France he wouldn't have help in a large way keeping Quebec in Canada. Bunch of crazy people, want to see his long form birth certificate as well? Quote
g_bambino Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 Yah you worried about France. I did? Quote
cybercoma Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 After thinking about it further, the above does seem to be the most pertinent observation. A prime minister with dual citizenship who starts implementing policy in Canada that favours the country that is not Canada would probably quickly find himself out of a job, having lost the confidence of parliament or dismissed by the governor general for offering illegal advice. He may well owe allegiance to a foreign power, but he also, by virtue of being citizen of Canada, as well as through swearing the oath of admission to the Privy Council and the oath taken by ministers, owes allegiance to the Queen and the laws and conventions of this country, including those that bind the office of prime minister. It thus isn't really even a matter of citizenship at all, but focus; Hell, the prime minister isn't even required to be a citizen of Canada. But, the system is such that a prime minister of Canada who doesn't put Canada before any other country will not be prime minister of Canada for very long. [+] I was going to mention the Privy Council, Governor General, and Queen, but I didn't want you kicking my ass in another conversation and I figured you would have filled in the gaps in my comment anyway. Quote
scribblet Posted January 20, 2012 Report Posted January 20, 2012 Jack Layton wouldn't have liked it. Mr. Layton, in 2006, said he thought it inappropriate that Stéphane Dion hold dual French and Canadian citizenship as leader of the Liberal Party Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
Wild Bill Posted January 20, 2012 Report Posted January 20, 2012 Jack Layton wouldn't have liked it. Mr. Layton, in 2006, said he thought it inappropriate that Stéphane Dion hold dual French and Canadian citizenship as leader of the Liberal Party You know Scrib, I pointed out quite clearly in one post that the nitpicking details of MulCair's dual citizenship were irrelevant, that what matters is how many Canadian voters will have their choice affected by it. So far, all I've seen from Mulcair's champions is more nitpicking details! NONE of them have made a comment on the public perception of it as an electoral factor. Either they are obsessed with nitpicking, which I've also pointed out to be a common trait with many socialists, or they simply don't want to go there! Either way, it's pretty boring when no one will talk about what actually matters! Punked can beat up somebody like me all he wants with his eloquence and force me to agree with him but who cares? I'm only one vote! It's obvious that the issue will affect a great many Canadian voters, perhaps enough for the NDP to lose their Opposition status. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Evening Star Posted January 20, 2012 Report Posted January 20, 2012 So far, all I've seen from Mulcair's champions is more nitpicking details! NONE of them have made a comment on the public perception of it as an electoral factor. I did in my first post. Quote
Evening Star Posted January 20, 2012 Report Posted January 20, 2012 Mulcair moved the goalposts. Nobody cares about someone being born with dual citizenship. It's like being baptized as a baby - it wasn't your choice to join that church! No, the difference is that Mulcair made a conscious, adult choice to split his loyalties. Citizenship is more than just a bureaucratic convenience. It is a solemn oath of allegiance! If it means as little as Mulcair is making out then I think I would have good reason to question his loyalties. So being loyal to your country first and foremost is "profoundly parochial and insular thinking". And questioning divided loyalties is an attack on children! Why is there a distinction? Citizenship means something either way, right? Or is it less of a solemn bond of allegiance when someone is a citizen by birth? Are they not still expected to be loyal to their country of citizenship? Why would you not then ask someone born in the UK to choose Canada first and give up his British citizenship when he becomes PM? Quote
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