Time to Mourn the Death of a Great Man (Iranian Scientist)

[GostHacked]

US and allies invaded Iraq to the west, and Afghanistan to the east. If I were a leader of Iran I would most certainly think I needed nuclear weapons.

Who exactly is acting in the most provocative and bellicose manner? If there is war between US/Israel and Iran, who do you think will fire the opening rounds?

That is something I thought about with the run up to the Iraq war in 2006. Nato was in Afghanistan in 2001. Actions are louder than words, and who has been doing more of the action, and who has been doing more of the talking.

Even if Iran was genuine in wiping Israel off the map, they simply do not have the capacity or capability. They also know that if they fire the first shot, Iran would become a shiny piece of glass. Iran may have strong rhetoric, but they are no threat. And if they really are a threat to Israel, let Israel deal with them. They dealt with Iraq and Syria (more to the 'action is louder than words'.

Anyone with even a bit of foresight knew that this was coming. I think some of us even stated so on this board long time ago. I think those that had said so, were also called crazy.

[sharkman]

zionism is an ideology just like nazism. anyone who is okay with either of those ideology is either deluded to how morally wrong they are or they are sociopaths.

This comment when compared with the one below, proves my point about you beyond a doubt.

i despise zionism just like i despise the taliban and their ideology.

You are obviously a bigot who has a hatred for Jews that compares to Nazi ideology. Hitler wasn't such a bad guy, was he?

my question was in regards to why she hates ron paul so much. since she has never actually told us why she dislikes him and calls him crazy all the time, my take is that she's not happy about his views on the unconditional support for israel, which includes $3 billion military aid. isn't this why zionists fear ron paul so much? because ron paul actually has a chance of winning?

Yes, I know the context of your remark, but it plainly shows that you have an extreme view of the world. I am only now discovering what others have noticed about you and your bigotism.

[Guest American Woman]

i don't support terrorism. i support the non-violent approach which majority of palestinians are taking.

I didn't say you did support terrorism, I said you supported a Palestinian state in spite of the "many sociopaths" within Palestine. I'll now expand that to include the terrorist approach, which many Palestinians are taking.

you can say i believe that, but i don't.

It's what you support. You think the world "would be better off" without Zionists, because "many of them are sociopaths" even though you strongly, unwaveringly, obsessively, support a Palestinian state even as "many of them are sociopaths."

whatever ideology that promotes the theft of another person's land (annexation of land which includes settlement increase) and the consistent human rights violations and ruthless behaviour over another people in order to achieve its goal is wrong.

And you think this is what all Zionists support?

it may not be to you and many other zionists, but it is to me and most people around the world.

I doubt if "most people around the world" would agree with your take on the Palestine-Israel conflict. Furthermore, it sounds to me as if you are saying I'm a Zionist. You think anyone who supports the Jews having a homeland, as Muslims have their Islamic nations, is a Zionist? You think anyone who supports the Jews having their country too supports everything Israel has done? You don't support everything Palestine has done, according to you - yet you paint everyone who supports Israel, the right to a Jewish state, with the same brush - and "the world would be better off without us," evidently.

i despise zionism just like i despise the taliban and their ideology.

Zionism is nothing like the Taliban and their ideology. You're showing your ignorance and your bias to compare the two.

[Guest American Woman]

my question was in regards to why she hates ron paul so much. since she has never actually told us why she dislikes him and calls him crazy all the time,

Actually, I have.

my take is that she's not happy about his views on the unconditional support for israel, which includes $3 billion military aid. isn't this why zionists fear ron paul so much?

Which is a really bizarre "take" and speaks of your single mindedness. Furthermore, referring to me as a "zionist" is just as bizarre and also speaks of your narrow minded inability to see reality.

because ron paul actually has a chance of winning?

In other news, hell might freeze over .......

[August1991]

That's a pretty impressive take out actually. Three dudes in a car that is bombed and only the guilty one gets killed.

I had the same thought when I saw the report.

US and allies invaded Iraq to the west, and Afghanistan to the east. If I were a leader of Iran I would most certainly think I needed nuclear weapons.

Who exactly is acting in the most provocative and bellicose manner? If there is war between US/Israel and Iran, who do you think will fire the opening rounds?

By your logic, you would side with the Hell's Angels because the RCMP is "bellicose". Edited January 12, 2012 by August1991

[Guest Peeves]

There certainly are reasons for suspecting the assassination was conducted by some

Uh ?

person/country/agency/or sect that dislikes the Iranians theological plans (return of the Mahdi in Iran)

/ nuke threat/sect/ inner conflict from opposition/Saudi Concerns et al. So I figure as usual with my leetle gray cells, that the butler did it.

Or possibly an Iranian exiled countryman at large, or perhaps a fatwa issued over Shi'a–Sunni relations, or by Turkey that knew that ... that the Zionists would automatically be blame.

What none of you suspect is that a fund raising drive was put on by local Baha'i and 7 gunslingers for hire done the deed. The Seven Samurai I believe... no, that was the original... The Magnificent Seven, yeh, that's it, NO?, then assassination was a 'hit' by ...well think of the Orient Express caper.

Seriously ..never mind.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Peeves

[bud]

I didn't say you did support terrorism, I said you supported a Palestinian state in spite of the "many sociopaths" within Palestine. I'll now expand that to include the terrorist approach, which many Palestinians are taking.

many palestinians are not taking the terrorism approach. that's a false claim. in fact, even hamas have said they'd agree to resolution 242 and take the peaceful approach. too soon to include them in the non-violent hippy crowd, but at least they've shown restraint in the past few years.

It's what you support. You think the world "would be better off" without Zionists, because "many of them are sociopaths" even though you strongly, unwaveringly, obsessively, support a Palestinian state even as "many of them are sociopaths."

even though the way israel was created is questionable, time has passed and there is no going back. i support the state of israel. what i don't support is their continual land theft and the government backed settlement increases which violate international law. i also do not support the brutal occupation that violates numerous human rights laws.

unfortunately, majority of zionists, including you and several people in this forum are okay with that. not speaking out against an obvious wrong while continuously trying to justify their actions makes you a supporter.

And you think this is what all Zionists support?

having a homeland at the expense of another people's rights is wrong.

israel has a chance to end all of this but they choose not to. majority of palestinians, including their government (fatah and hamas) accept the 1967 border. but the israeli government, which is controlled by extremists continues to steal more palestinian land and has vowed to never allow a palestinian state. you don't seem to have a problem with that.

Settlement construction soared in 2011

NGO's report says government authorized 1,850 building starts for West Bank housing units in past year.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4173945,00.html

Self-Rule

The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.

http://www.knesset.gov.il/elections/knesset15/elikud_m.htm

this is the zionist ideology at work.

I doubt if "most people around the world" would agree with your take on the Palestine-Israel conflict.

my take being, two states based on the 1967 border? you're wrong. even obama agrees with it.

Furthermore, it sounds to me as if you are saying I'm a Zionist. You think anyone who supports the Jews having a homeland, as Muslims have their Islamic nations, is a Zionist? You think anyone who supports the Jews having their country too supports everything Israel has done?

no. that's not what i think. because i support the existence of israel and even though i do, i'm not a zionist.

unfortunately, majority of zionists, including you, do not condemn the annexation of palestinian land and increasing of settlements and the theft of palestinian resources.

You don't support everything Palestine has done, according to you - yet you paint everyone who supports Israel, the right to a Jewish state, with the same brush - and "the world would be better off without us," evidently.

palestinians do not strive to annex israeli land, to put settlements in israel and to steal israeli resources. so your comparison does not make sense.

Zionism is nothing like the Taliban and their ideology. You're showing your ignorance and your bias to compare the two.

i didn't say they're alike. i said whatever ideology that tries to achieve its goals at the expense of another group's rights is wrong. this includes the mainstream ideology of zionism.

[DogOnPorch]

fud: having a homeland at the expense of another people's rights is wrong.

...and one look at an Arab map of the Levant shows what they think of Israel's so-called right to a homeland. Fatah's emblem for example...

http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/fatah_logo.jpg

even though the way israel was created is questionable,

No more 'questionable' than Canada's creation...or Syria's creation...or Fatah's creation.

[Bonam]

That's a pretty impressive take out actually. Three dudes in a car that is bombed and only the guilty one gets killed.

I wouldn't use the term "guilty". What was he guilty of? Being a top scientist? He was a potential target because of the nature of the project he was working on, but he wasn't "guilty" of anything. He was not a criminal or a terrorist.

That being said, there's as yet no evidence that this attack was carried out by the US or Israel, is there?

[Guest Derek L]

So who did it? Israel, CIA, both or Iran. Why I said Iran because I'm waiting to see if either of the other two will say Iran did it and Iran would blame it on them.

The rumour I’ve heard, from a (well informed) friend of a friend, and I can’t rate the validity of such rumor, is that the recent "accidents" have been caused by a gremlin on the Al Mukhabarat Al A'amah payroll.......

[bud]

The rumour I’ve heard, from a (well informed) friend of a friend, and I can’t rate the validity of such rumor, is that the recent "accidents" have been caused by a gremlin on the Al Mukhabarat Al A'amah payroll.......

mossad was most likely behind it. they have a long historyof such acts.

it's also highly likey the MEK is also in bed with mossad in this.

[Post To The Left]

mossad was most likely behind it. they have a long historyof such acts.

it's also highly likey the MEK is also in bed with mossad in this.

Isn't it Jundallah? The maybe American supported militant separatist group based in Pakistan and fighting the Iranian occupation of Iranian-Balochistan? Mossad has supposedly been recruiting fighters from Pakistan by telling them they are CIA.

Agents with Israel's spy agency, Mossad, have posed as CIA agents in operations to recruit members of the Pakistani group Jundallah, according to a report in US-based Foreign Policy magazine.

Using US dollars and passports, the agents passed themselves off as members of the US Central Intelligence Agency in the operations, according to memos from 2007 and 2008, said the report which was published on Friday.

It is unclear whether the recruitment programme is ongoing.

"Israel has done this before. I know of a report very widely accepted in the US of Israeli Mossad agents in the United States, actually recruiting American Muslims," Mark Perry, who authored the report, told Al Jazeera.

Jundallah [which translates to "soldiers of God"] says it is fighting for the interests of Iran's southeastern Sistan-Baluchistan province's large ethnic Baluch community, whose members, unlike most Iranians, mainly follow the Sunni branch of Islam.

The Baluch straddle the border with neighbouring Pakistan and Afghanistan and Jundallah fighters have taken advantage of the unrest in the region to find safe haven in the border area.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/01/20121142232610383.html

Edited January 14, 2012 by Post To The Left

[Guest Derek L]

mossad was most likely behind it. they have a long historyof such acts.

it's also highly likey the MEK is also in bed with mossad in this.

I’d have thought as much up till very recently (And I’ve posted prior as much) but with recent events that have seen Saudi Arabia become involved, coupled with the unsubstantiated rumour that I’ve heard, I’d give credence to that (strong) possibility. I’ve even “heard” there’s a possibility the Chinese could be involved, as was the rumoured case of their intelligence arm being the ones to have leaked info to the IAEA several years ago……..With Gazprom recently losing some oil & gas contracts in Iran, one could even intelligently speculate that the Russians could be another possibility………

Ultimately, anyone or any combination of foreign governments have vested interests in Iran not getting the Bomb and having an uninterrupted flow of oil.

[Guest American Woman]

many palestinians are not taking the terrorism approach. that's a false claim.

No it's not. Many are.

...in fact, even hamas have said they'd agree to resolution 242 and take the peaceful approach.

Hamas has also said the exact opposite. Hamas has said and done a lot of things.

too soon to include them in the non-violent hippy crowd, but at least they've shown restraint in the past few years.

"Too soon" indeed, but if that's been "restraint," doesn't say much for them.

even though the way israel was created is questionable, time has passed and there is no going back.

You got that right - there is no going back.

i support the state of israel. what i don't support is their continual land theft and the government backed settlement increases which violate international law. i also do not support the brutal occupation that violates numerous human rights laws.

You've made that obsessively clear, as you obsessively support the state of Palestine without the continual berating of Palestine's wrongs. Furthermore, you make this claim as you simultaneously claim that "the world would be better off without Zionists."

unfortunately, majority of zionists, including you

majority of zionists, including you

I had to highlight that because it's such a perfect example of your ignorance of what Zionism means and your total inability to control your response when dealing a differing opinion.

FYI, your ignorance of referring to me as a Zionist aside, your claim regarding "the majority of zionists" is no less ignorant than those who refer to "the majority of Muslims" as being terrorists.

To me these comments illustrate your bias and inability to be anything but biased in your views.

and several people in this forum are okay with that. not speaking out against an obvious wrong while continuously trying to justify their actions makes you a supporter.

I'm spoken out about the "wrongs" more often than you've spoken out about the "wrongs" of Palestine. A simple one sentence objection to suicide bombers thrown in on occasion doesn't make you any different from those you criticize. But I'll use your mind set here and conclude that this makes you a supporter of terrorism.

having a homeland at the expense of another people's rights is wrong.

Waging war against Israel was wrong, and wanting to erase the results after losing is wrong. You think the Arab counties that attacked Israel would have given back the land they won if they had won that war? And would you be supporting it? I think not.

But there are a lot of "wrongs" going on. You just chose to obsess over the wrongs of one side.

israel has a chance to end all of this but they choose not to.

Sure, Israel has a real "choice."

majority of palestinians, including their government (fatah and hamas) accept the 1967 border. but the israeli government, which is controlled by extremists continues to steal more palestinian land and has vowed to never allow a palestinian state. you don't seem to have a problem with that.

Hamas would be willing to accept a Palestinian state within 1967 borders, a leader of the militant group, Mahmoud Zahar, told the Palestinian news agency Ma'an on Wednesday,

adding, however

, that

Hamas would never recognize Israel

since

such a move would counter the group's aim to "liberate" all of Palestine

.

link

(emphasis mine)

That's some "acceptance," eh?

my take being, two states based on the 1967 border? you're wrong. even obama agrees with it.

Ummm. No. Try following along. When you say something in a post and I quote it, that's the "take" I'm referring to in my response.

no. that's not what i think. because i support the existence of israel and even though i do, i'm not a zionist.

Of course you're not. But everyone else who supports the existence of Israel is a Zionist.

Question for you. Do you support the existence of Israel as a Jewish state?

palestinians do not strive to annex israeli land, to put settlements in israel and to steal israeli resources. so your comparison does not make sense.

Actually, that response to what I said makes no sense.

Zionism is nothing like the Taliban and their ideology. You're showing your ignorance and your bias to compare the two.

i didn't say they're alike. i said whatever ideology that tries to achieve its goals at the expense of another group's rights is wrong. this includes the mainstream ideology of zionism.

Actually, you did say they were alike - and again, you are showing your ignorance regarding the ideology of zionism - as you claim to support the existence of Israel. Seems to me you are all over the board here.

[Guest Peeves]

i love jews.

zionists on the other hand are bad for the world. i find many of them to be sociopaths.

Any resemblance between your (apparent) definition of Zionist/Zionism and the etymology, history or definition of the word/movement, is purely of fantasy and possibly even a biased bigotry.

Of course that's just an opinion subject to a reality check.

A Definition of Zionism

Zionism, the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel, advocated, from its inception, tangible as well as spiritual aims. Jews of all persuasions, left and right, religious and secular, joined to form the Zionist movement and worked together toward these goals. Disagreements led to rifts, but ultimately, the common goal of a Jewish state in its ancient homeland was attained. The term “Zionism” was coined in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/zionism.html

[Guest Peeves]

mossad was most likely behind it. they have a long historyof such acts.

it's also highly likey the MEK is also in bed with mossad in this.

The Nazis forced scientists to work on projects. This scientist and others are probably forced to work on projects as well.

Just a thought. I'm sure the guy didn't want the regime to have a nuke. Well really I'm not, but he might have been working under duress along with others.

Maybe they have relatives in Germany.

Or.......

[jbg]

even though the way israel was created is questionable, time has passed and there is no going back. i support the state of israel. what i don't support is their continual land theft and the government backed settlement increases which violate international law. i also do not support the brutal occupation that violates numerous human rights laws.

Do you support the State of Israel as a Jewish state, if within the 1967 borders? Or only a State called Israel existing?

having a homeland at the expense of another people's rights is wrong.

Russia out of the Kuriles? Reunite Cyprus?

israel has a chance to end all of this but they choose not to. majority of palestinians, including their government (fatah and hamas) accept the 1967 border. but the israeli government, which is controlled by extremists continues to steal more palestinian land and has vowed to never allow a palestinian state. you don't seem to have a problem with that.

Why, if the Arabs started a war in 1967 do they get a "do-over" as if nothing happened?

[jbg]

The rumour I’ve heard, from a (well informed) friend of a friend, and I can’t rate the validity of such rumor, is that the recent "accidents" have been caused by a gremlin on the Al Mukhabarat Al A'amah payroll.......

I think the car bomb magnet walked itself onto the car.

[bud]

No it's not. Many are.

many palestinians are taking the terrorism approach? do tell, who are these many palestinians.

Hamas has also said the exact opposite. Hamas has said and done a lot of things.

hamas has initiated several ceasefires with israel. one was before operation cast lead which israel violated that led to the war crimes committed by israel in gaza.

"Too soon" indeed, but if that's been "restraint," doesn't say much for them.

tell me about all the attacks by hamas in the past few years that makes you feel like you can say they've not significantly reduced attacks? just because you say something, it doesn't make it true.

either give examples or don't make false claims.

You got that right - there is no going back.

just going forward with more land theft?

You've made that obsessively clear, as you obsessively support the state of Palestine without the continual berating of Palestine's wrongs. Furthermore, you make this claim as you simultaneously claim that "the world would be better off without Zionists."

the zionism ideology includes the acceptance of taking another people's rights in order to achieve its goal. the extreme zionists who control the israeli government are against a palestinian state. this is why:

- their platform explicitly says they will not allow a palestinian state

- they continue to violate international law by increasing settlements and annexing palestinian land. in fact, they've sped up the illegal settlement construction.

majority of zionists, including you

I had to highlight that because it's such a perfect example of your ignorance of what Zionism means and your total inability to control your response when dealing a differing opinion.

zionism, especially modern zionism is wrong. the reason why it's wrong because it tries to achieve its goals at the expense of other people's rights.

if there are 'zionists' who are against the settlements, the brutal occupation and their government's platform to never allow a palestinian state, i'd love to know who they are.

FYI, your ignorance of referring to me as a Zionist aside, your claim regarding "the majority of zionists" is no less ignorant than those who refer to "the majority of Muslims" as being terrorists.

ignorance is comparing zionism with a religion.

I'm spoken out about the "wrongs" more often than you've spoken out about the "wrongs" of Palestine.

when?

tell me if you're against the following wrongs:

- illegal jewish settlements

- expansion of the illegal settlements

- the government of israel's platform which says they'd never allow a palestinian state

- theft of palestinian resources, like water

if you fail to respond to the above, you're a typical zionist apologist.

A simple one sentence objection to suicide bombers thrown in on occasion doesn't make you any different from those you criticize.

tell me the last time there was a suicide attack. how many suicide attacks have we seen from the palestinians in the past 5 years?

besides the homemade rockets that land in empty lands and have killed less than a handful of people in the past 5 years, tell me what else what i need to condemn?

lets talk about it.

Waging war against Israel was wrong, and wanting to erase the results after losing is wrong. You think the Arab counties that attacked Israel would have given back the land they won if they had won that war? And would you be supporting it? I think not.

you think wrong, again.

i am for international law, which says you can't steal people's land because you were given dominating weapons.

what about you? are you for or against international law?

Sure, Israel has a real "choice."

israel doesn't have a choice to stop increasing the illegal settlements?

israel doesn't have a choice to change their platform and formally agree to accept a palestinian state?

israel doesn't have a choice in stopping the demolition of palestinian homes in east jerusalem?

Hamas would be willing to accept a Palestinian state within 1967 borders, a leader of the militant group, Mahmoud Zahar, told the Palestinian news agency Ma'an on Wednesday,

adding, however

, that

Hamas would never recognize Israel

since

such a move would counter the group's aim to "liberate" all of Palestine

.

link

(emphasis mine)

That's some "acceptance," eh?

does mahmoud zahar make the rules for hamas, or:

Meshal ordered a de facto cease-fire with Israel not only in the Gaza Strip, but also in the West Bank. Hamas had already refrained from launching rockets from Gaza.

The sources say Meshal issued the order in late November, after the first round of reconciliation talks in Cairo between Hamas and Fatah.

After that meeting, it emerged that the two organizations agreed also to focus on a popular struggle along the lines of the Arab Spring.

you're trying really really hard to pretend that hamas has not made efforts, but facts and reality are working against you.

Ummm. No. Try following along. When you say something in a post and I quote it, that's the "take" I'm referring to in my response.

i stand by what i said. majority of the world agrees with me which is a palestinian state based on the 1967 border.

Of course you're not. But everyone else who supports the existence of Israel is a Zionist.

no. you're failing to comprehend something very simple. the existence of israel is not the question. it's israel's brutal occupation, the expansionism through settlement increasing and land annexation and of course vowing to never allow a palestinian state which is the problem. many of those who consider themselves zionists are advocates of what the israeli government is doing. unless you can say otherwise, you're one of those as well.

Question for you. Do you support the existence of Israel as a Jewish state?

how would adding 'jewish' to the name change anything? this is another red herring. wanting to call israel a 'jewish state' is a new thing.

Actually, you did say they were alike - and again, you are showing your ignorance regarding the ideology of zionism - as you claim to support the existence of Israel. Seems to me you are all over the board here.

again, here is your chance to explain your ideology of zionism. what do zionists want? are they happy with the country they have or are they wanting the greater israel?

do you agree with what the government of israel is doing, which is;

1) illegal settlement increase

2) vowing to never allow a palestinian state

3) palestinian home demolitions in east jerusalem to make way for internationally recognized illegal jewish settlements

4) the brutal and illegal occupation

Edited January 15, 2012 by bud

[jbg]

how would adding 'jewish' to the name change anything? this is another red herring. wanting to call israel a 'jewish state' is a new thing.

Not to the name. To the character. The kind of "Israel" Arafat was willing to recognize was one that could be overrun with millions of Arab immigrants. There might very well have been a state with the name "Israel". The Jews would have lived at the sufferance of the Arab majority.

again, here is your chance to explain your ideology of zionism.

Zionism is the love of the land of Israel. It is not an ideology.