Ottawa warns current health transfers unsustainable

olp1fan · December 17, 2011

So I guess they don't prefer to be re elected next election? How much pork did Clement get for his riding? Around 50 million.. how many billions for the new prisons and for the new crime laws that mostly make no sense? Your health care money will be going to putting 17 year olds in prison for growing six pot plants ..how much was that Libya celebration ceremony for Harper? Almost 1 million dollars

Don't bullshit us Kenney, the money is there its just that Healthcare is not your priority .. come out and say it you fat POS

When Chretien and Martin cut back they cut back all of their spending ..something the CPC doesn't seem to know how to do

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/12/17/pol-thehouse-kenney-health-transfers.html

A day before federal Finance Minister Jim Flaherty is set to meet with his provincial and territorial counterparts in Victoria, Conservative cabinet minister Jason Kenney says while a new deal on health transfers has yet to be reached, the current level of funding is unsustainable and his party's election promise to fund health transfers to the provinces at six per cent does not extend beyond 2016.

In an interview with CBC Radio's The House, Kenney tells Evan Solomon, "We did commit in the platform, during the election, to six per cent growth for the balance of the Health Accord, plus two years."

With the current Health Accord set to expire in 2014, the federal government "will be having discussions with the provinces on where to go beyond that," said Kenney.

"Many of the provinces are [already] controlling the growth in health care costs, and it's less than six per cent."

"I think everyone recognizes that we cannot continue annual increases of six per cent, or more in some of the provinces, year after year," said Kenney.

"For some of the provinces, if they continue in that trajectory, there will be nothing left for education, for universities, for anything else."

Federal spending cuts to run deep

Until now, Ottawa had promised to balance the books by finding $4 billion in annual savings over the next three years or 5 per cent of the review base through a strategic and operating review of government spending, which would be announced at the next budget in 2012. But according to Kenney, the cuts could range up to $8 billion annually.

"We are looking at prudent, spending reductions that will range between 5 per cent and 10 per cent of the operating expenses of the government," said Kenney.

When asked whether the cuts could be more than $4 billion, Kenney said, "It could be."

When asked a second time if the cuts could go up to $8 billion, Kenney replied, "It'll be in the range."

"The decisions have not yet been made."

"Every minister has been asked to come to the table with potentially as much as 10 per cent of their operating budget but each decision will be made according to how can we deliver core programs more efficiently," said Kenney.

Interim NDP leader Nycole Turmel told The House she has "always supported the program review."

What she disagrees with is the way the government has been presenting the cuts, "10 per cent at-large." And that "doesn't solve the problem," said Turmel.

For his part, interim Liberal leader Bob Rae told Solomon the problem with this approach is "the government is taking a bit of a sledge hammer."

"The rhetoric that I hear from the Conservatives, that I part company with, is the notion that somehow austerity alone is going to get us to prosperity. And I dont think that's true," said Rae.

"The plan has to be about creating growth. We can't get rid of the deficit without growth."

The government's Strategic and Operating Review will be led by Treasury Board President Tony Clement.

Edited December 17, 2011 by olp1fan

Bryan · December 17, 2011

The money is not there. A deficit means the amount of available funds is a negative number. Cuts are an unfortunate necessity. No one likes it, but they have to be done. Pointing to other spending excesses is not a reason to continue with excess, they are just other places to look to make sure that spending is held in check in the future.

However....

The Conservatives have increased healthcare funding substantially since they've been in power. They promised to continue with 6%/yr increases until the end of the current agreement. What they want to do after that is cap healthcare funding increases to no more than double inflation. All across the board, it's always been increases, not cuts, when it comes to healthcare funding.

Compare that to what the Liberals did; cutting healthcare funding.

olp1fan · December 17, 2011

Difference is Bryan when the Libs cut healthcare they also cut their spending

The Conservatives are NOT cutting their spending

You cannot cut spending and think that and only that will get rid of the deficit ..this deficit will not disappear because the Conservatives have so much stuff in their agenda that will cost billions of dollars

What is your answer to that?

cybercoma · December 17, 2011

With an aging population, this is going to be a disaster. The following government, whether it's the Conservatives or someone else is not going to be able to do a thing. They're playing with fire here. Provinces like NB are completely unable to sustain their healthcare system on their own. Middle-aged people leave the province, so there's less people footing the revenues that are being used by the elderly. Stripping the health transfers is going to be a nightmare.

Battletoads · December 17, 2011

Funny how there's hundreds of billions of dollars for F-35's, super prisons, draconian crime legislation, corporate tax cuts and welfare, but nothing for essential services.

Battletoads · December 17, 2011

With an aging population, this is going to be a disaster. The following government, whether it's the Conservatives or someone else is not going to be able to do a thing. They're playing with fire here. Provinces like NB are completely unable to sustain their healthcare system on their own. Middle-aged people leave the province, so there's less people footing the revenues that are being used by the elderly. Stripping the health transfers is going to be a nightmare.

Maybe the next election cycle boomers will be smart enough to elect a competent government... :lol: Nope, couldn't say that with a strait face.

punked · December 17, 2011

The Conservatives have increased healthcare funding substantially since they've been in power. They promised to continue with 6%/yr increases until the end of the current agreement. What they want to do after that is cap healthcare funding increases to no more than double inflation. All across the board, it's always been increases, not cuts, when it comes to healthcare funding.

Compare that to what the Liberals did; cutting healthcare funding.

What BS that statement is, the LIBERALS increased healthcare funding the Conservatives HAD to promise to kept that agreement to beat them in 2006 that is the only reason they have increased healthcare funding. Everyone warned Canadians this is what the Conservatives would do and they said they wouldn't. Now they are and can expect to hammered for it in the next election.

cybercoma · December 17, 2011

Maybe the next election cycle boomers will be smart enough to elect a competent government... Nope, couldn't say that with a strait face.

That's the cruel joke of it all. Even if they do elect a competent government, it's going to be saddled with this clusterbomb. They'll have no choice but to make unpopular decisions to repair the damage this will possibly cause. We'll have to see what happens though. They may come to some agreement better arrangement with the provinces. With that happening leading up to the election, it will make things interesting.

jacee · December 17, 2011

Well I guess we know what the main issue will be for the next election.

He barely held onto them this time with the "6%" promise til the next election, and I look forward to seeing Harper lose his senior voters in 2015! :lol:

cybercoma · December 17, 2011

They're working on crafting public opinion. They'll talk for the next 4 years about how health care transfers are unsustainable, then persuade people into believing the only way to help is by allowing a parallel private-payer system. Of course, academics and scholars will denounce this move by the government because PP systems are much more expensive and inefficient. It's all part of the growing discourse of being distrustful of knowledge and education. Pour a little fuel on the fire and you'll have populist outrage shouting down any intelligent discussion that ought to be had about these kinds of broad-sweeping changes. It's easier to control people if you keep them misinformed.

Bryan · December 17, 2011

What BS that statement is, the LIBERALS increased healthcare funding the Conservatives HAD to promise to kept that agreement to beat them in 2006 that is the only reason they have increased healthcare funding. Everyone warned Canadians this is what the Conservatives would do and they said they wouldn't. Now they are and can expect to hammered for it in the next election.

The Liberals CUT over $25 billion from healthcare. Not paying the basic bills is where their fake "surpluses" came from.

A big part of the reason the Conservatives had to increase spending so much is because the Liberals left so much of their basic obligations unpaid.

Bryan · December 17, 2011

The Conservatives are NOT cutting their spending

Your opening post was a rant about how terrible it is that the Conservatives are cutting spending.

Which is it?

cybercoma · December 17, 2011

[T]he reason the Conservatives had to increase spending so much is because the Liberals left so much of their basic obligations unpaid.

You're either lying or completely misinformed. The Liberals cut health-care spending, as they revamped the transfer system and balanced the budget. They then set up an obligation for the government to pay 6% increases year after year. The Conservatives weren't doing it out of concern for Canadians or because they thought it was the right thing to do. The CPC spent 6% more on healthcare each year because they were required to. They could have legislated away those increases, but that would have been political suicide. Don't act like they swept in and cleaned up the Liberals' mess because that healthcare funding was already in place. That 10 year plan was signed in 2004, while Paul Martin was Prime Minister. Here's the details.

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/delivery-prestation/fptcollab/2004-fmm-rpm/index-eng.php

cybercoma · December 17, 2011

By the bye, that plan came out of the Romanow Commission... also not a Conservative... which was called for on the advice of Jean Chretien.... also not a Conservative.

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/hhr-rhs/strateg/romanow-eng.php

Bryan · December 17, 2011

You're either lying or completely misinformed. The Liberals cut health-care spending, as they revamped the transfer system and balanced the budget. They then set up an obligation for the government to pay 6% increases year after year. The Conservatives weren't doing it out of concern for Canadians or because they thought it was the right thing to do. The CPC spent 6% more on healthcare each year because they were required to. They could have legislated away those increases, but that would have been political suicide. Don't act like they swept in and cleaned up the Liberals' mess because that healthcare funding was already in place. That 10 year plan was signed in 2004, while Paul Martin was Prime Minister. Here's the details.

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/delivery-prestation/fptcollab/2004-fmm-rpm/index-eng.php

Liberals said a lot of things, but did very little. According to Liberal policies, we've already had a national daycare system for going on 20 years. After all, that was in writing too, for several consecutive elections at that. What matters is action. Conservatives are actually doing what they promised.

cybercoma · December 17, 2011

Liberals said a lot of things, but did very little. According to Liberal policies, we've already had a national daycare system for going on 20 years. After all, that was in writing too, for several consecutive elections at that. What matters is action. Conservatives are actually doing what they promised.

The Conservatives haven't done anything. In fact, they've quite literally done nothing. They just stayed the course laid by the Liberals. I posted references to how it was the LPC that went to the Governor General for the health care commission (Romanow Commission) and it was the LPC that implemented the increased funding. The CPC inherited the improvements that you're attributing to them and now they're talking about cutting them. Nice try revising history though.

Bryan · December 17, 2011

The Conservatives haven't done anything. In fact, they've quite literally done nothing. They just stayed the course laid by the Liberals. I posted references to how it was the LPC that went to the Governor General for the health care commission (Romanow Commission) and it was the LPC that implemented the increased funding. The CPC inherited the improvements that you're attributing to them and now they're talking about cutting them. Nice try revising history though.

You are completely full of it. Putting plans in place means nothing when a Liberal does it. They talk a big game, but never follow through. Even signing a 'binding' agreement doesn't mean anything unless they DO it. The Liberals signed a lot of agreements that they never followed through on. What they DID do was cut health care funds substantially. What the Conservatives DID do was increase funding. What they've continued to do is increase funding. There is no talk whatsoever about cutting healthcare spending. The only thing they are looking to do is manage the rate of INCREASE. It's still going to be more year over year.

Keepitsimple · December 18, 2011

Delivery of Healthcare is a Provincial responsibility......but most provinces, especially Ontario would like to muddy the waters and make it SEEM like the Feds are the culprits. They don't want to raise taxes to pay for Healthcare so they go begging to Ottawa.....but there's only one taxpayer. Provinces - if you want more money - raise taxes. If you want more efficiency - reform how you deliver Healthcare....but don't keep coming to the Feds with your hand out. And that goes for the CBC and The Star as well......start beating up on the Provinces.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Keepitsimple

cybercoma · December 18, 2011

Are you saying the Liberals weren't the ones responsible for the 6% increase every year over 10 years?

cybercoma · December 18, 2011

Delivery of Healthcare is a Provincial responsibility

It sure is, but the rules around what they need to provide and how are governed by the Canada Health Act. Unless Parliament passes provincial legislation, it would be more accurate to say that it's a joint responsibility between the federal and provincial governments.

Topaz · December 18, 2011

In his own words Harper believes in provinces funding healthcare by themselves and little from the Feds and thats exactly what he's aiming for! Provinces will be forced to bring in two-tier healthcare and how many families are going to pay 1200 upward for health insurance and then NOT get the best health care out there. Insurance companies are in the business to make money not lose and the Tories are all about business. Unfortunately for Harper, with his head in the clouds, YOU mess with Canada's healthcare while spending, or printing 9BILLION for jets and you will have protesters at your door! Harper better survey other political forums because I was just came from one and what they are saying isn't good for the Tory party. Going ...going ..GONE!!

Evening Star · December 18, 2011

Are you saying the Liberals weren't the ones responsible for the 6% increase every year over 10 years?

It was their idea but I have to give to Bryan that the LPC didn't really have to deal with the implementation of it, which the CPC has.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Evening Star

cybercoma · December 18, 2011

It was their idea but I have to give to Bryan that the LPC didn't really have to deal with the implementation of it, which the CPC has.

That's how it works. They came to the decision in 2004. It's not like they were planning on losing the 2006 election when they decided this. At the end of the day it wasn't the Conservatives' idea and it wasn't them who started the program. They just continued what the Liberals had already started by the time they took office. They literally did nothing. They could have eliminated it and they didn't even bother doing that. They can't take credit for someone else's work.

Edited December 18, 2011 by cybercoma