Israel's march to JudeoFascism

Bonam · January 19, 2012

I kind of feel like this is fundamentalist religion's last grasp, and it's happening simultaneously throughout much of the West even as demographics show that secularism is overwhelmingly on the rise. In the US, too, religious conservatives are trying to push through irrational policies that marginalize distinct groups of people as well as inhibiting progress and education. And the people pushing such policies look increasingly silly and isolated to the wider majority.

Back to Israel, the growth of its unproductive ultra-orthodox minority is unsustainable, and within the next decade or two something will have to give.

bush_cheney2004 · January 19, 2012

In the US, too, religious conservatives are trying to push through irrational policies that marginalize distinct groups of people as well as inhibiting progress and education. And the people pushing such policies look increasingly silly and isolated to the wider majority.

Half right...you are ignoring the irrational policies pursued by "liberals" as well.

DogOnPorch · January 19, 2012

Note the millions of others that aren't. Obviously there is a cult of misogyny in Israel, but are just as obviously joining the Naomi Kline camp of Jew haters by exploiting an aspect of Judaism that is identified pretty much with one group of nuts.

I don't support misogyny anywhere, but let's keep a perspective on the degree of chauvinism or misogyny.

I wasn't serious. Seriously...

Bonam · January 19, 2012

Half right...you are ignoring the irrational policies pursued by "liberals" as well.

Hardly. As you know, a substantial chunk of my 6000 posts on this forum are devoted to critiquing those policies.

bush_cheney2004 · January 19, 2012

Hardly. As you know, a substantial chunk of my 6000 posts on this forum are devoted to critiquing those policies.

Context is required here....it's not just "religious conservatives" who are facing extinction.

sharkman · January 19, 2012

That's the difference between us then. You don't believe the reports that women are under threat in Israel while I believe people like Clinton who are alarmed at the threat to media and women's rights and of course the actual women in Israel who have to every day put up with this new gender apartheid that the Jewish extremists are trying to enact.

And here we have a fine example of a poster who is alarmed about women's rights, as long as it's not Muslim women.

bud · January 19, 2012

I kind of feel like this is fundamentalist religion's last grasp, and it's happening simultaneously throughout much of the West even as demographics show that secularism is overwhelmingly on the rise.

the extremist far right groups who are against the formation of a palestinian state are in control of the israeli government. yet you keep making excuses for them when it comes to their policies regarding the occupied territories.

Israel's far right-wing is real threat to Mideast peace

The Haredi minority aspires to force its beliefs on the majority, and then there’s a tiny minority that aspires to force Greater Israel on the majority, whatever the cost.

link

Post To The Left · January 19, 2012

Note the millions of others that aren't. Obviously there is a cult of misogyny in Israel, but are just as obviously joining the Naomi Kline camp of Jew haters by exploiting an aspect of Judaism that is identified pretty much with one group of nuts.

I don't support misogyny anywhere, but let's keep a perspective on the degree of chauvinism or misogyny.

Which would be a valid point if the extremist Jews were a static population. But they are the fastest growing population of Israel! 20% of Israeli children in school are these Jewish fundamentalists and their numbers are only increasing. Already their status of King maker in the Israeli election has allowed them significant power including, for now, the health ministry. Just in that one ministry they have already segregated the sexes and banned women speakers at its functions! This is an official portion of the Israeli government!

Imagine if the same thing happened in Canada and the Health minister said women are no longer allowed to speak at Health Ministry functions, the sexes have to be segregated at all of government events. There would be outrage but because it's in Israel where this type of thing is OK there any criticism of the eroding of women's rights is seen as antisemitism.

January 19, 2012

the extremist far right groups who are against the formation of a palestinian state are in control of the israeli government. yet you keep making excuses for them when it comes to their policies regarding the occupied territories.

Israel's far right-wing is real threat to Mideast peace

The Haredi minority aspires to force its beliefs on the majority, and then there’s a tiny minority that aspires to force Greater Israel on the majority, whatever the cost.

link

If the Arabs wanted peace they could have had it years ago. If Arabs wanted a Palestinian state they could have had one at any time since the creation of Israel.

If Arabs wanted peace their mandate to eliminate the Jews and Israel as a country would not be stated in their constitutional charters.

But that aside, if Arabs stopped attacking there would be peace. If Israel let down her guard for a minute there would be no Israel and another few million Jews would be mourned as victims.

bud · January 20, 2012

If the Arabs wanted peace they could have had it years ago. If Arabs wanted a Palestinian state they could have had one at any time since the creation of Israel.

that's b.s. because the palestinians agreed to accept the state of israel over 20 years ago.

If Arabs wanted peace their mandate to eliminate the Jews and Israel as a country would not be stated in their constitutional charters.

eh? which arabs? the PLO and the current palestinian prime minister accepts the state of israel and this has been the case for over 20 years. it's in their charter.

are you talking about hamas and are you saying that hamas represents all of arabs?

But that aside, if Arabs stopped attacking there would be peace. If Israel let down her guard for a minute there would be no Israel and another few million Jews would be mourned as victims.

let down their guard? what does that have to do with the increasing illegal jewish settlements? the house demolitions in east jerusalem? what does that have to do with the government of israel vowing to never a palestinian state?

those actions are not in self-defense. those are the actions of a state that is not interested in peace and is only interested in expanding its territory and to push another group out of that territory.

DogOnPorch · January 20, 2012

That's the way the bones roll when you lose a war that you start.

dre · January 20, 2012

If the Arabs wanted peace they could have had it years ago. If Arabs wanted a Palestinian state they could have had one at any time since the creation of Israel.

If Arabs wanted peace their mandate to eliminate the Jews and Israel as a country would not be stated in their constitutional charters.

But that aside, if Arabs stopped attacking there would be peace. If Israel let down her guard for a minute there would be no Israel and another few million Jews would be mourned as victims.

If the Arabs wanted peace they could have had it years ago.

Not really... Israels main reason for holding onto the occupied territories is logistic in nature not security. The West Bank, and Golan Heights are jam packed full of critical Israeli infrastructure (wells, piplines, pumping stations, etc). Their need for all this critical infrastructure and resources doesnt change whether the natives in those areas are nice or not. Thats why they took the land in the first place... there was cool stuff on it.

Edited January 20, 2012 by dre

Post To The Left · January 20, 2012

If the Arabs wanted peace they could have had it years ago. If Arabs wanted a Palestinian state they could have had one at any time since the creation of Israel.

If Arabs wanted peace their mandate to eliminate the Jews and Israel as a country would not be stated in their constitutional charters.

But that aside, if Arabs stopped attacking there would be peace. If Israel let down her guard for a minute there would be no Israel and another few million Jews would be mourned as victims.

Nice try you won't but you wont't be able to sweep the Jewish Extremist threat against women's rights as easily as trying, in desperation, by trying to change the subject.

As you talked about before the solution you have provided is for Jewish women who are attacked, threatened by Jewish Fundamentalists is for them to physically attack the Jewish extremists. So I ask you whenChanna Maayan was forced to sit in a segregated section at an official government event she didn't fight back, when the mother of that 8-year-old girl was spit on by Jewish fundamentalists didn't physically attack the Jewish extremists does that make them less of a Jewish women?

It's seems like your assaulting Jewish women twice. Once for abandoning them to actions that, while pale to the horrible crimes in the muslim world, are still terrible and government sanctioned. Then a second time for telling them that because they didn't fight back they aren't "Jewish"

Edited January 21, 2012 by Post To The Left

sharkman · January 20, 2012

That's the way the bones roll when you lose a war that you start.

Yeah, funny how that works, eh?

All this pretend concern for jewish women is just a veiled attempt to once again attack something about Israel. I hear they don't eat pork, what kind of nutjob doesn't like a BLT!

Jack Weber · January 20, 2012

That's the way the bones roll when you lose a war that you start.

Pretty much....

Franco-Prussian War of 1870-'71 anyone?

bud · January 20, 2012

geneva convention and international law anyone?

sharkman · January 20, 2012

Tell you what, why don't we apply those to the real offenders first. You know, the countries with honor killing of women, "circumcision" of women, beating of wives, that kind of thing.

dre · January 20, 2012

Tell you what, why don't we apply those to the real offenders first. You know, the countries with honor killing of women, "circumcision" of women, beating of wives, that kind of thing.

Why dont we apply them to everyone at the same time?

sharkman · January 20, 2012

Okay, please name the worst 10 areas in which abuse is considered normal for canadian women.

dre · January 20, 2012

Okay, please name the worst 10 areas in which abuse is considered normal for canadian women.

Why on earth would I do that?

DogOnPorch · January 20, 2012

geneva convention and international law anyone?

UN242 applies to Israel only. Made during the Cold War and at the same time as this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khartoum_Resolution

...all in order to make Israel give back what they managed to win after a fair-n-square war their enemies started. If it was universal there'd be the same fanatical efforts to delegitimize other countries...both those that started wars (like the Arabs and North Vietnamese) and those that were attacked (like South Viet-Nam, Holland...Poland...France..etc, etc).

But, no. This is about something older and darker than the Arab Israeli Wars.

Edited January 20, 2012 by DogOnPorch

sharkman · January 20, 2012

Why on earth would I do that?

Quite simply, you can't, and it illustrates why instead of trying to apply the geneva convention and international law to countries that by and large adhere to it, we should apply it to those countries that don't adhere to it. This thread is a thinly veiled attempt at concern for Jewish women so the OP can have yet another tantrum over Israel.

Once again, why don't we apply those concerns to the real offenders first. You know, the countries with honor killing of women, "circumcision" of women, beating of wives, that kind of thing. Israel(and Canada and France and the US and Japan etc) may not be perfect, but they are a far cry from the countries which treat women as slaves to be murdered at the whim of the owner.

Scotty · January 20, 2012

The term 'threat' is subjective. I agree that a sect in Israel choses to subject women to an inferior role to the ultra orthodox men.

The threat is very minor at best since no Israeli woman would

I think you're missing the point. Perhaps the 'threat' of violence might be minor, but the threat of the increasing political power of this group within Israel's crazy quilt pizza parliaments is very real, especially given the group's increasing population.

And the threat is not merely to women. This is a group which does no work. This is a group which does not join the IDF. Many members of this group don't even recognize that the Israeli state has any legitimacy, which is why the health minister refuses to be the official health minister. They're already 10% of the population - almost all on welfare. What happens to Israel when they become 20%-30%?. How does Israel pay for its enormous military with a third of the population made up of welfare bums?

bush_cheney2004 · January 21, 2012

... How does Israel pay for its enormous military with a third of the population made up of welfare bums?

Israel gets by with a little help from its friends.

Post To The Left · January 21, 2012

Israel gets by with a little help from its friends.

So you're OK with American tax payer money paying for these religious welfare bums so that instead of working they can go and spit on little children?