Persecuted Christians In America!

[Guest American Woman]

This is really just too much. You criticize someone for not addressing your points, right after you say that you have no interest in addressing his points.

*sigh* When someone responds to my posts, I don't think it's too much to expect that they address my point(s). Gosthacked keeps responding to my posts bringing up different issues, which I've clearly stated that I have no desire to discuss, while accusing me of having a persecution complex because of it. Note that I've never accused him of having a persecution complex because he can't seem to respond to my point(s), however. But do keep responding about me. I know you can't help yourself - that's all to obvious from the number of posts you make about me.

Edited June 9, 2012 by American Woman

[cybercoma]

*sigh* When someone responds to my posts, I don't think it's too much to expect that they address my point(s). Gosthacked keeps responding to my posts bringing up different issues, which I've clearly stated that I have no desire to discuss, while accusing me of having a persecution complex because of it. Note that I've never accused him of having a persecution complex because he can't seem to respond to my point(s), however. But do keep responding about me. I know you can't help yourself - that's all to obvious from the number of posts you make about me.

I'm not really sure what any of this is. Are you simply trying to rationalize your hypocrisy?

[Guest American Woman]

I'm not really sure what any of this is. Are you simply trying to rationalize your hypocrisy?

Noooooo. Try to follow along. I made a post. Gosthacked replied to it about something else. He keeps doing so, even after I said I don't want to discuss religious beliefs. I don't care to discuss religion. Not now, not ever. I only care to discuss attitudes, which is what I posted about - and what Gosthacked didn't respond to. If he didn't want to address my point(s), he didn't have to respond. Repeatedly. Yet he keeps responding - ludicrously accusing me of having a persecution complex for not wanting to discuss it. Are you getting it yet??

I highly doubt it.

But do keep responding about me personally. As I said, you obviously can't help yourself.

[cybercoma]

So you don't think it's hypocritical to criticize someone for the exact same thing you're doing?

[Guest American Woman]

So you don't think it's hypocritical to criticize someone for the exact same thing you're doing?

O.M.G.

He didn't say he doesn't want to discuss my point - he just keeps ignoring it ... as HE responded to ME. If he doesn't want to address my point he 1) doesn't have to respond or 2) can say 'I don't care to discuss that' ... instead of consistantly responding as if he IS responding to my point. GET IT??

FURTHERMORE ..... HE is accusing ME of having a persecution complex for not wanting to discuss religion/my beliefs. I am doing no such thing - I am not accusing him of having a persecution complex for not addressing my points.

In case you're still not getting it, the answer is NO.

Now. Do you think you can stop posting about me? Don't you think it's a bit of an obsession with you?

[jbg]

I'd say that for the past few pages, this thread has been more DesCartman than DesCartes...

• "To be is to do"-Socrates;
  
• "To do is to be"-Sartre;
  
• "Do Be Do Be Do"-Sinatra;
  
• "Scooby Dooby Do"-Scooby Do;
  
• "Yaba Daba Doo!"-Fred Flintstone
  

(link).

Edited June 10, 2012 by jbg

[GostHacked]

cybercoma, on 09 June 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

So you don't think it's hypocritical to criticize someone for the exact same thing you're doing?

In case you're still not getting it, the answer is NO.

See, this is an example of where your own words work against you.

[Guest American Woman]

See, this is an example of where your own words work against you.

Oh come on. You never said you weren't interested in discussing the point I made - you just kept ignoring it and going off on a tangent - accusing me of having a persecution complex because I don't want to discuss religion, much less how it affects my beliefs - which are none of your business. Many people don't want to discuss religion, much less their own personal beliefs, and "you people" are a prime example of why.

Makes me wonder why you responded to my post in the first place. I have to assume that you are either purposely ignoring my point - or unable to comprehend it. Perhaps I've given you too much credit and you aren't purposely ignoring it. I honestly thought you had more on the ball than this. Oh well.

At any rate, my refusal to discuss something I have no interest in discussing is quite different from your simply not addressing my points in your response to me. You initiated a different topic, and then proceeded to make the most ignorant accusation - actually, I'm going to call it as it is - downright stupid accusation - because I wouldn't go there. It's not a subject I am willing to discuss, and I have made that quite clear. Quite different from you ignoring my points by simply moving the goalposts and then making stupid accusations because I don't want to go there. If you can't see that, well ... I'll leave it at that since the rules prevent me from saying more.

At any rate. I am done with you on this. You cannot address my point, or refuse to, and I have no desire to be drawn into a discussion of religion and/or my beliefs with the likes of "you people."

If you don't get that, the problem lies squarely with you - not me. Your refusal/inability to see it changes nothing. But I'm sure it'll start another circle jerk of replies about me personally - which tells me how important every word I say apparently is to some of you.

But speaking of hypocrisy, it's interesting that when it comes to Islam, you can see that out of the sheer numbers, it's a minority of Muslims who are the problem and therefore Muslims as a whole are worthy of praise for mostly being "moderates" - while out of the sheer number of Christians in America, one presidential candidate wanna-be et al elicits such attention and response from "you people" - and Christians as a whole group are criticized.

Like I said, peas in a pod. You are no different from those you criticize.

Have a blissful day - I've no doubt you will.

[GostHacked]

Oh come on. You never said you weren't interested in discussing the point I made - you just kept ignoring it and going off on a tangent - accusing me of having a persecution complex because I don't want to discuss religion, much less how it affects my beliefs - which are none of your business. Many people don't want to discuss religion, much less their own personal beliefs, and "you people" are a prime example of why.

Makes me wonder why you responded to my post in the first place. I have to assume that you are either purposely ignoring my point - or unable to comprehend it. Perhaps I've given you too much credit and you aren't purposely ignoring it. I honestly thought you had more on the ball than this. Oh well.

At any rate, my refusal to discuss something I have no interest in discussing is quite different from your simply not addressing my points in your response to me. You initiated a different topic, and then proceeded to make the most ignorant accusation - actually, I'm going to call it as it is - downright stupid accusation - because I wouldn't go there. It's not a subject I am willing to discuss, and I have made that quite clear. Quite different from you ignoring my points by simply moving the goalposts and then making stupid accusations because I don't want to go there. If you can't see that, well ... I'll leave it at that since the rules prevent me from saying more.

At any rate. I am done with you on this. You cannot address my point, or refuse to, and I have no desire to be drawn into a discussion of religion and/or my beliefs with the likes of "you people."

If you don't get that, the problem lies squarely with you - not me. Your refusal/inability to see it changes nothing. But I'm sure it'll start another circle jerk of replies about me personally - which tells me how important every word I say apparently is to some of you.

But speaking of hypocrisy, it's interesting that when it comes to Islam, you can see that out of the sheer numbers, it's a minority of Muslims who are the problem and therefore Muslims as a whole are worthy of praise for mostly being "moderates" - while out of the sheer number of Christians in America, one presidential candidate wanna-be et al elicits such attention and response from "you people" - and Christians as a whole group are criticized.

Like I said, peas in a pod. You are no different from those you criticize.

Have a blissful day - I've no doubt you will.

You win, I have no idea how to address this post at all.

[Guest American Woman]

You win,

Grow up. If you see this as a contest, it explains a lot.

I have no idea how to address this post at all.

I'm finding that you have no idea how to address a lot of things.

[GostHacked]

Grow up. If you see this as a contest, it explains a lot.

I'm finding that you have no idea how to address a lot of things.

Can you define what you mean by "you people"? And who exactly are the peas in this pod?

Edited June 10, 2012 by GostHacked

[kimmy]

Can you define what you mean by "you people"? And who exactly are the peas in this pod?

Mea culpa. I started the "you people" thing earlier in a post addressed to betsy. And when I said it I meant "you people who buy into this Persecuted Christians BS" and there's no doubt that betsy is one of "those people," along with Shady and a variety of politicians and media personalities. Interestingly enough, while AW presented a message that appeals to "those people", AW is not really one of "those people" herself.

-k

[kimmy]

• "To be is to do"-Socrates;
  
• "To do is to be"-Sartre;
  
• "Do Be Do Be Do"-Sinatra;
  
• "Scooby Dooby Do"-Scooby Do;
  
• "Yaba Daba Doo!"-Fred Flintstone
  

(link).

• "Do or not do." -Yoda
  

-k

[kimmy]

Yes, but Cartman is an authoritah.

For some reason that's what I always think of when AW uses one of these in a post.

-k

[Guest American Woman]

For some reason that's what I always think of when AW uses one of these in a post.

Only when I use one of those? Gosh. I feel so special.

[kimmy]

You do realize that "injustice" and "persecution" are two different things, right? It's YOU putting the "persecution" label on all of it. Furthermore, if you don't recognize that there is a different "PC standard" applied to Christians than there is to Muslims, you must have blinders on. But here's the thing - recognizing that isn't saying that Christians are persecuted.

I already discussed my choice of the term "persecuted" earlier, the last time you presented this complaint, so I'll cut and paste my comments here:

I think the claim that Christians are persecuted in America is hilarious. Why did I choose "Persecuted Christians" as the title of this thread? Because they keep telling us that they're being persecuted. They tell us that a war is being waged against them by the liberal-secularoid forces, led by "that atheist Muslim Barack Obama, who did not even thank Jesus during his Thanksgiving address."

The phrase "war on religion" has been used continuously by Christians and Christian politicians. Newt Gingrich and Rick Perry in particular made this a feature of their campaigns and made vowed to "end Obama's war on religion." And although they refer to it as "the war on religion" the only examples they ever seem to find are

We heard how Christianity was being oppressed when the US armed forces took down the cross at Camp Pendleton, and when they took the cross off the interfaith chapel at the base in Kandahar, and when they took down the prayer banner from a public school in Rhode Island, and many more.

Whenever some atheist group puts up a billboard, we hear Christians crying that it is an attack on their faith. We've heard religious leaders try to present anti-bulling laws as assaults on religion. We heard the Catholic Bishop of Chicago compare the gay rights movement to the KKK.

And now we hear that GCB is an attack on Christianity. Shady seemed serious when he said that GCB shows that I have "stumbled onto the truth" about persecution of Christians, and he seemed serious in saying that this thread is once again relevant thanks to "GCB".

Yes, these people seem quite convinced that they are being persecuted for their religion.

The treatment of Christians in the Middle East and parts of Africa is part of the 'complaints' that Christians have. I posted an example of that very thing.

If I recall, the complaint was that some governments are withholding aid money from countries where gays are being persecuted, but not taking a similar stance on countries where Christians are being persecuted. And my response was that there's a key difference: in the countries where funds are being withdrawn due to gays being persecuted, the persecution is being committed by the law and the governments themselves; in the countries where Christians are being persecuted, the persecution is being committed by militias who are beyond the government's control.

But Christians in the U.S. and Canada are also going to speak out about what they see as different 'PC standards' in their own countries. Again. That doesn't mean they think they are persecuted. What I'm getting from your judgment is that no one better dare mention the different PC standards, one best quietly just accept it, or they are claiming that they are persecuted.

They can speak out about whatever they wish, but the most powerful and privileged "minority" group in either of our countries is going to have a very hard time convincing people that minor slights and mockery are anything close to persecution. And I think that when discussing claims of hurt feelings, I have been pretty consistent in not making fun of Christians who are saying "this hurts our feelings." I think I have focused on Christians who say "this show hurt our feelings and it should be taken off the TV!" or "this billboard hurts our feelings and it should be taken down!"

Just what Christians in the U.S. are calling for the beating or killing of gays? Seriously. You think there is a faction of Christians in the U.S. calling for the killing of gays??

Well, yes. We know there is. Just in the past month I posted about the "beat your gay kids" pastor, and the "put gays in jail" pastor, and the "put the gays in concentration camps" pastor (who was also the "hang them from white oaks" pastor a few decades ago) and the "the government should execute gays" pastor.

And just to emphasize, that's not nutty congregation members, those are pastors. Not the Westboro Baptist Church, either, but real actual bricks and mortar churches in real communities-- Anderson Cooper said that the "concentration camps" guy has a congregation of 1200. And those are just the ones caught on tape, just recently.

And-- as with the Muslims-- I have to wonder, if that's what's getting caught on tape, how much is out there that we don't know about?

And given the involvement of some American evangelicals with the Uganda politicians behind the efforts to make homosexuality a capital offense in that country, I think it's quite clear that there is a faction within Christianity that believes gays should be exterminated. I hope that it's a small faction, but it's clear that it's out there.

Yes, of course. The number of Christians doing this is staggering. While of course there are no atheists "crying" about being subjected to "Christmas" symbols/everything else they "cry" about. Taking into account the number of Christians and the number of atheists, I would say there are no more Christians "crying" about being "persecuted" than there are atheists. Those who pick just one to criticize and throw about accusations are all cut from the same cloth.

I don't believe that many atheists are offended by the sight of religious symbols or the sound of Christmas carols. Atheists are offended when public money is used to support religious purposes (like the atheist in Illinois who sued to try to prevent public funds from being used to repair this monstrosity.) Or religious slogans being installed in public schools and courthouses, or people having to participate in religious ceremonies at the start of secular events like city council meetings. Or slapping Christian symbols on things that are not for the exclusive use of Christians, like prayers on the walls of public schools or flying the Christian Flag over a veterans' memorial. Or bringing Christian evangelists into public schools under the guise of giving anti-drug or anti-bullying presentations-- stuff like this happens a lot.

As for banning Christmas carols or whatever the current complaint from Christianists is... it's a straw-man. Dig into it a little deeper and the story always turns into "well at my nephew's school they don't get to sing Silent Night anymore, they have to sing Jingle Bells instead." Well, if I was a teacher or principle with students of all religious backgrounds, I would be extremely uncomfortable having them sing songs praising one particular religious figure. I'd strongly question the judgment of a teacher or principal who felt otherwise.

There seems to be this stereotype that atheists are always offended, always looking for something to sue, or whatever... but I think that if you look at each specific case, you'll find that most of them are based on reasonable positions.

Christians complain, and atheists complain, so they're all just the same, right? You made that point earlier, and my response was that not all complaints are equal. Generally speaking when atheists complain, they're asserting their own religious freedoms, and generally when Christians complain it's because somebody else has asserted their religious freedoms. There'll be exceptions, but that's the general theme.

But just out of curiosity, what "dumb ass Marines" are you referring to? And just how many candidates campaigned on the promise of ending Obama's war on religion? - And why do you care?

Here's the story about the Afghanistan cross being removed. Even an ultra-biased right-wing source like TheBlaze concedes that it was against the rules and that it was an interfaith chapel. I like the "they wouldn't have taken it down if it was a Muslim symbol!" and the "what's next, are they going to take away our Bibles?" spin.

As for the politicians... just two-- Deadbeat Newt and Brokeback Rick Perry-- used the exact words "war on religion". Why do I care? Because it seems emblematic of a political process that's going on in the US right now... get Christians riled up with the idea that their religious freedom is being taken away and channel their fear to your specific political goal. For example right now North Dakota has an amendment that is going to the polls soon called the "religious liberty" amendment or something similar. It's being sold to the voters as a way to protect religious freedom. Which sounds awesome, right? Because who could be against religious liberty?

Except religious liberty is already protected, and the amendment is going to open the door to a wide variety of new religious-based loopholes in laws that were intended to stop discrimination. And it will give religious institutions a way to access public money.

-k

[kimmy]

Only when I use one of those? Gosh. I feel so special.

You're an "authoritah" on many issues.

-k

[Guest American Woman]

You're an "authoritah" on many issues.

:lol:

You people are too funny.

[bleeding heart]

del

Edited June 11, 2012 by bleeding heart

[bleeding heart]

Um, yeah. Most atheists here do - arrogantly - believe that atheism is the only truth. Quite frankly, I couldn't care less what "you people" believe - but I'll call you and others on it when you are simply the flip side of what you are so - arrogantly - criticizing.

AW....again, clearly I need to spell this out for you:

I am telling you flat-out that I do not "believe" atheism to be "the only truth."

And never have.

[cybercoma]

You're an "authoritah" on many issues.

-k

Cartman: I will have authoritah?

Agent: Yes. You will have authority. And people will respect it.

[Guest American Woman]

Keep the laughs coming - and continue to stay away from mirrors. You people wouldn't want to inadvertently catch a glimpse of yourself....

[bleeding heart]

Keep the laughs coming - and continue to stay away from mirrors. You people wouldn't want to inadvertently catch a glimpse of yourself....

Evidently you didn't read my post.

[Guest American Woman]

Evidently you didn't read my post.

Ummm. Yeah. I read it.

[bleeding heart]

Ummm. Yeah. I read it.

Ummm. No. you didn't.

Because it contradicts what you've been declaring, so you haven't addressed it.

You made a remark earlier that you think people should address your actual words, that you write in your posts.

Maybe you might allow the same consideration for others.