Persecuted Christians In America!

[Guest American Woman]

Yes thank you. We will all get along better once you start worshiping ME instead of this Jesus dude.

Really. You're going to make claims about my religious beliefs now, are you? It just keeps getting more and more entertaining .....

Well,the question remains unanswered by anyone in this thread. .. Is Christianity the only truth?

Perhaps there's a reason why it remains unanswered. But while we're at it, answer me this - how is believing Christianity is the only truth different from believing atheism is the only truth?

[bleeding heart]

Really. You're going to make claims about my religious beliefs now, are you? It just keeps getting more and more entertaining .....

Perhaps there's a reason why it remains unanswered. But while we're at it, answer me this - how is believing Christianity is the only truth different from believing atheism is the only truth?

I'd put it to you that most atheists don't believe atheism is the only truth; it's a default position, since they have been offered no evidence about the existence of God. (Why just Christianity, by the way? What more "truth" can there be for that religion than for the Homeric gods?)

I don't believe there are faeries in Ireland, either. But I don't take it on hard faith; if I saw good evidence of faeries in Ireland, I could painlessly change my opinion.

[Guest American Woman]

Is there a reason for the scare quotes?

Yep. There sure is.

Translation: they don't agree with AW, so they are arrogant.

Awww.... just when I was beginning to have some faith in you.

Nooooooo. People who think their beliefs are The One True Belief are arrogant; which makes it especially amusing when they criticize others for believing that their beliefs are The One True Belief - and again, it's what makes ya'll peas in a pod. And what's even more amusing still is when you get all pouty faced and accuse others of arrogance for calling you on it ....as "you people" arrogantly insult Christians for believing in God. (It is funny!)

[Guest American Woman]

I'd put it to you that most atheists don't believe atheism is the only truth;

Um, yeah. Most atheists here do - arrogantly - believe that atheism is the only truth. Quite frankly, I couldn't care less what "you people" believe - but I'll call you and others on it when you are simply the flip side of what you are so - arrogantly - criticizing.

[cybercoma]

It's what I would expect you people to say and how I expect you people to react.

What do you mean, "you people?"

[cybercoma]

Um, yeah. Most atheists here do - arrogantly - believe that atheism is the only truth. Quite frankly, I couldn't care less what "you people" believe - but I'll call you and others on it when you are simply the flip side of what you are so - arrogantly - criticizing.

Why are you so arrogant then when it comes to nearly every God that has ever existed throughout history then?

[Guest American Woman]

Why are you so arrogant then when it comes to nearly every God that has ever existed throughout history then?

Once again, so I can understand it, please. I have no idea what you are on about.

[kimmy]

Whoosh! .... Right over the top of "you people's" heads.

Hardly. Your point was clear enough, it just wasn't a very good point.

-k

[kimmy]

Seriously. "You people" are a riot. All thinking that your belief is The One Truth - while making fun of someone else for thinking that their belief is The One Truth. Like I said, ya'll are peas in a pod.

(...)

But while we're at it, answer me this - how is believing Christianity is the only truth different from believing atheism is the only truth?

(...)

Nooooooo. People who think their beliefs are The One True Belief are arrogant; which makes it especially amusing when they criticize others for believing that their beliefs are The One True Belief - and again, it's what makes ya'll peas in a pod.

All of this is attacking a strawman, based on a misconception about what an "atheist" actually is.

Many people seem intent on believing that an atheist is someone who believes with certainty that there is no god. In fact an atheist is someone who does not believe in god or gods; those who claim factual certainty on the matter are a minority. Even Richard Dawkins will not claim absolute certainty on the matter.

While the difference might seem semantic, it's significant from a philosophical point of view.

Do I believe in leprechauns? No. But neither can I claim to have certain proof that there are no leprechauns.

Um, yeah. Most atheists here do - arrogantly - believe that atheism is the only truth.

Who, specifically? The only one I can recall for sure is that kid that keeps getting banned.

-k

[dre]

OH oh! We got a full-on A-Dub emoticon storm!

[GostHacked]

Once again, so I can understand it, please. I have no idea what you are on about.

Ancient history. The Greek Gods, the Egyptian Gods, just to name a couple. The Christian God, is not even the first God. I'll take the agnostic/atheistic approach until I have some evidence that proves otherwise.

But at least you have somewhat admitted that there is more than one truth. The other possible truth is we ALL could be wrong on everything. I'll let your noodle soak that in for a bit.

[cybercoma]

OH oh! We got a full-on A-Dub emoticon storm!

There's so much yellow in this thread that I thought someone had pissed their pants.

[Guest American Woman]

Hardly. Your point was clear enough, it just wasn't a very good point.

Of course you don't think so. You people only love false equivalencies when it's you making them. Which was, since I believe you still don't get it, a major part of my very good point.

[Guest American Woman]

But at least you have somewhat admitted that there is more than one truth. The other possible truth is we ALL could be wrong on everything. I'll let your noodle soak that in for a bit.

"Somewhat admitted??" I've always clearly maintained that all we have are our own personal beliefs; that no one has the answer to this ageless question - and I've never belittled anyone's actual beliefs. You, on the other hand, have - as you sit there so piously and make claims about what I "have somewhat admitted." - How about you soak your noodle in that - for more than a bit, as I fear it will take a lot of soaking for it to penetrate your noodle.

And for the record, you have no clue as to what my beliefs are. Soak your noodle in that while you're at it.

Edited June 7, 2012 by American Woman

[GostHacked]

"Somewhat admitted??" I've always clearly maintained that all we have are our own personal beliefs;

Yes, you have (in another thread in the same vein as this one) that you admit that there is more than one truth. Truth is different from belief. We all believe something, but we all could be wrong about what the real truth is. But we rarely if ever get that kind of talk from the believers. It's their way or no way. And it's their way to the point where they want it to make it everyones' way.

that no one has the answer to this ageless question - and I've never belittled anyone's actual beliefs.

Correct, no one has the answer, but more often than not, and this thread and your posts are examples that people THINK they have the answer. Even among the believers like yourself and Betsy there are different beliefs (again which are not truths). The headbutting among the religious is actually quite entertaining for people like me.

You, on the other hand, have - as you sit there so piously and make claims about what I "have somewhat admitted." - How about you soak your noodle in that - for more than a bit, as I fear it will take a lot of soaking for it to penetrate your noodle.

Hey I am just using your own words. If your own words end up working against you, is that my issue?

And for the record, you have no clue as to what my beliefs are. Soak your noodle in that while you're at it.

Actually I really don't care what your beliefs are. If they work for you, then have at it. I have always maintained that stance, but please overlook that for sake of making another argument where there really is none.

And you missed the other point about other Gods coming before this so called REAL God.

Edited June 7, 2012 by GostHacked

[cybercoma]

Of course you don't think so. You people only love false equivalencies when it's you making them. Which was, since I believe you still don't get it, a major part of my very good point.

Trolling 101: Be as arrogant as possible when telling someone else that (s)he is arrogant.

[Guest American Woman]

Yes, you have (in another thread in the same vein as this one) that you admit that there is more than one truth. Truth is different from belief. We all believe something, but we all could be wrong about what the real truth is. But we rarely if ever get that kind of talk from the believers. It's their way or no way. And it's their way to the point where they want it to make it everyones' way.

Ummm.... I more than "admit it," it's been my stance all along that people have their own beliefs, but no one has the answer - that includes atheists who think that their "logical" minds are "the only truth." There is no God. EOS. That is no different from people of faith who preach that their beliefs are the One Truth. Are you getting that yet?? There are many people of faith whose faith is personal and they couldn't care less what anyone else thinks. Yes, there are some who would like to make it everyone's way - but their are atheists who are the exactly the same. They turn Christmas into "happy holidays" - they make sure no songs about God or Jesus are sung in school Christmas holiday programs - they want God taken out of everything - and I'm fine with that. But it shows how narrow your vision is that you can't see that there are religious - and non-religious - who are exactly the same.

And fyi - perhaps it's not that you "rarely get that kind of talk from believers," but that you are so set in your beliefs and judgments that you can't see it - even when it's right in front of your face. You makes ludicrous claims about me, so it doesn't surprise me that you would be so terribly wrong about others.

Correct, no one has the answer, but more often than not, and this thread and your posts are examples that people THINK they have the answer.

This is one of the most ridiculous, idiotic comments ever. In this thread, my posts are not even remotely an example of my THINKING I have the answer. NOTHING I've said indicates that. I don't even speak of my beliefs. I only counter the non-believers who ridicule believers who think they have the answer. I have said time and again that no one has the answer, so how in any even remotely intelligent, critical mind does that translate into my thinking I have the answer? Again. You have no idea of what my beliefs entail. None. While you and your talk of "spaghetti monsters" and how yours is the "logical" belief, as you attack people for their religious beliefs, are just the opposite side of the coin of the religious people you criticize.

Even among the believers like yourself and Betsy there are different beliefs (again which are not truths). The headbutting among the religious is actually quite entertaining for people like me.

Ummmm. I haven't "headbutted" anyone about their religious beliefs - and this thread consists of non-believers "head butting" betsy's beliefs - and attacking her for her beliefs - and making fun of Christians - as the failure to see this same thing among non-believers is so plain to see. And that is what is quite entertaining to people like me. The fact that you don't see it is the icing on the cake.

Hey I am just using your own words. If your own words end up working against you, is that my issue?

My own words?? Hardly. I suggest you go back and find "my own words" to back up your ludicrous claim.

Actually I really don't care what your beliefs are. If they work for you, then have at it. I have always maintained that stance, but please overlook that for sake of making another argument where there really is none.

You may not care what my beliefs are, but you mock what you THINK my beliefs are. You make ludicrous comments about what you THINK my beliefs are. I have never done the same to any non-believer. I respect your beliefs - it's the attitude I go after and draw attention to - and I have made that painfully clear.

And you missed the other point about other Gods coming before this so called REAL God.

I didn't miss it. What makes you think that I did? Because I don't care to discuss it? As I pointed out, I don't care to discuss anyone's beliefs - it's their attitudes, the same attitudes that they criticize others for, that I find oh-so-amusing.

[Guest American Woman]

Trolling 101: Be as arrogant as possible when telling someone else that (s)he is arrogant.

Well you've got that down pat. Good for you. Did you get a "Trolling 101" certificate to mark your achievement?

[cybercoma]

Well you've got that down pat. Good for you. Did you get a "Trolling 101" certificate to mark your achievement?

Case in point.

[GostHacked]

Ummm.... I more than "admit it," it's been my stance all along that people have their own beliefs, but no one has the answer - that includes atheists who think that their "logical" minds are "the only truth." There is no God. EOS. That is no different from people of faith who preach that their beliefs are the One Truth.

Well, we agree.

Are you getting that yet??

That is something I have been saying for a few years on this board, thanks for catching up.

There are many people of faith whose faith is personal and they couldn't care less what anyone else thinks. Yes, there are some who would like to make it everyone's way - but their are atheists who are the exactly the same. They turn Christmas into "happy holidays" - they make sure no songs about God or Jesus are sung in school Christmas holiday programs - they want God taken out of everything - and I'm fine with that. But it shows how narrow your vision is that you can't see that there are religious - and non-religious - who are exactly the same.

Again, I agree with you for the most part. The only point I will disagree on this part is your claim that I have a narrow vision. I had to take the biblical glasses off in order to see the world for what it really is. The blinders are off!!

I grew up without religion. Parents never forced any belief on me or my sister. We've been allowed to figure things out for ourselves. The narrow vision never happened, because we were never forced into a religious box.

And fyi - perhaps it's not that you "rarely get that kind of talk from believers," but that you are so set in your beliefs and judgments that you can't see it - even when it's right in front of your face. You makes ludicrous claims about me, so it doesn't surprise me that you would be so terribly wrong about others.

Sure I could be wrong about others. I could even be wrong about you. I'll admit that. Can you reciprocate?

NOTHING I've said indicates that. I don't even speak of my beliefs.I only counter the non-believers who ridicule believers who think they have the answer.

I've never claimed to have the answer. Which you have ignored, because it allows you to keep making an argument where there really is none.

Ummmm. I haven't "headbutted" anyone about their religious beliefs - and this thread consists of non-believers "head butting" betsy's beliefs - and attacking her for her beliefs - and making fun of Christians - as the failure to see this same thing among non-believers is so plain to see. And that is what is quite entertaining to people like me. The fact that you don't see it is the icing on the cake.

There is no cake.

You may not care what my beliefs are, but you mock what you THINK my beliefs are. You make ludicrous comments about what you THINK my beliefs are. I have never done the same to any non-believer. I respect your beliefs - it's the attitude I go after and draw attention to - and I have made that painfully clear.

You are correct, I don't care. But that does not mean I want to force my views on you. How about we both live and let live? That is something you and I can agree on right?

I didn't miss it. What makes you think that I did? Because I don't care to discuss it? As I pointed out, I don't care to discuss anyone's beliefs - it's their attitudes, the same attitudes that they criticize others for, that I find oh-so-amusing.

Well, the point I was making is that there were other so called 'gods' before this Christian god. Which many claim is the only one true god. The ancient Greeks and Egyptians both had multiple gods. Polytheism as opposed to monotheism.

Even in our modern times, the native tribes of North American have a form of polytheism , while Christians, Catholics, Jews and Muslims are all monotheistic religions and support the notion of one god. Each of those religions believe they are following the correct one true god.

Are all these religions correct?

If not, which one is correct?

Are they all really supporting the same god? (pfff blasphemy!!!)

Can they see that they are all really believing in the same god?

There is a reason why the religious are baffling to people like me. The other baffling thing is that people kill each other in the name of their one true god. For people that claim that life is sacred, they sure go against that more often than not.

Is it logical for me to believe in unicorns? If not, why not?

[Guest American Woman]

That is something I have been saying for a few years on this board, thanks for catching up.

Really? You've been pointing out that 'people who say that there is no God is the only truth is no different from those who say their religious beliefs are the only truth?' I have to say, I've totally missed that - but since you've been saying it "for a few years," I'm sure you won't have any problem directing me to at least one such post. Thank you.

The only point I will disagree on this part is your claim that I have a narrow vision. I had to take the biblical glasses off in order to see the world for what it really is. The blinders are off!!

I don't think so. You're comments about what I supposedly think/believe prove otherwise - as you claim you "rarely get that from religious people" re: not thinking their beliefs are the only truth, while you don't see that there are atheists of the same mindset. You have tried on more than one occasion to get someone to say that Christianity is the only truth, yet you didn't get any such response - as you claim you "rarely get that from religious people." I'd say you see the world the way you think it is.

I grew up without religion. Parents never forced any belief on me or my sister. We've been allowed to figure things out for ourselves. The narrow vision never happened, because we were never forced into a religious box.

Sorry, but there's more than one way to develop "narrow vision." Perhaps because you were never exposed to any religion you weren't as equipped to "figure things out for yourself" as someone else who was raised with religion where it was openly discussed, and said person was encouraged to give it critical thought and figure things out for themselves. The idea that you think anyone who was raised with religion have parents force beliefs on them is pretty narrow minded. You might want to think about that a bit.

Sure I could be wrong about others. I could even be wrong about you. I'll admit that. Can you reciprocate?

There's no "could be" about it. I've never said anything to indicate that I think/believe what you claim I do. You, on the other hand, have made it quite clear that you think your beliefs are the one true belief. Again. Your reference to unicorns and spaghetti monsters makes that quite clear. On the other hand, I have never once made ignorant responses about atheist beliefs. Attitudes, yes. And well deserved, I might add. Beliefs, no. You cannot say the same. Your ignorant comment to me that I should "worship you" instead of "worshiping Jesus" was so ignorant on so many levels - and it speaks for itself. Furthermore, claims such as "If you believe in god, then you believe in the devil. " is totally narrow-minded because YOU are dictating what others believe; you don't listen to them if you declare what they believe.

I've never claimed to have the answer. Which you have ignored, because it allows you to keep making an argument where there really is none.

Umm. Yeah, you have. The fact that you refer to belief in God as "irrational" while believing there is no God is "logic" and "reasoning," that you refer to "spaghetti monsters" and compare God to "unicorns," that you call God "imaginary" - are all pretty clear evidence that you believe that 'there is no god' is the truth.

There is no cake.

Oh, there's a cake alright. But I know "you people" don't see it - which is part of the whole 'you are peas in a pod' reality.

You are correct, I don't care. But that does not mean I want to force my views on you. How about we both live and let live? That is something you and I can agree on right?

I've never stated my views, much less diminished, insulted, or otherwise belittled your views. How about you trying to do the same with people of faith? Then you won't be just the flip side of the coin.

Well, the point I was making is that there were other so called 'gods' before this Christian god. Which many claim is the only one true god. The ancient Greeks and Egyptians both had multiple gods. Polytheism as opposed to monotheism.

Even in our modern times, the native tribes of North American have a form of polytheism , while Christians, Catholics, Jews and Muslims are all monotheistic religions and support the notion of one god. Each of those religions believe they are following the correct one true god.

Are all these religions correct?

If not, which one is correct?

Are they all really supporting the same god? (pfff blasphemy!!!)

Can they see that they are all really believing in the same god?

There is a reason why the religious are baffling to people like me. The other baffling thing is that people kill each other in the name of their one true god. For people that claim that life is sacred, they sure go against that more often than not.

You don't seem to get the fact that I don't care to discuss any of this. I don't care about any of this. I have never stated my views, my beliefs, so you don't even know what they are. I don't think my belief is the truth, I don't diminish any others' beliefs, so why would any of this matter to me?

I have no more desire to discuss religion with "you people" than I do the religious who believe their beliefs are the one truth. You are no more open minded than they are; you are no more respectful of people's beliefs than they are.

Is it logical for me to believe in unicorns? If not, why not?

The fact that you think belief in God and belief in Unicorns is comparable tells me without question just how ignorant you are about belief in God. Unicorns are tangible - they aren't a feeling, something requiring faith and/or emotions - and that's all the time I will devote to that ignorant comment - except to point out that it's more evidence that you believe your beliefs are the one true belief.

Science can't prove that "love" exists. Love isn't tangible. Not everyone experiences it, feels it, believes in it. Does that mean that love doesn't exist?

Simply put, science cannot "prove" everything, and that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[BubberMiley]

If I didn't believe my belief was the truth, then I don't believe it would be my belief.

Edited June 8, 2012 by BubberMiley

[Guest American Woman]

If I didn't believe my belief was the truth, then I don't believe it would be my belief.

Sometimes one can recognize that in spite of their personal beliefs, they don't know the answer. Do you not recognize that you might not have the answer to this age old question? - or do you truly believe that you know without a doubt that your belief is the one truth? Do you honestly believe you have the answer?

[BubberMiley]

I believe that people don't have enough data or brain power to know anything with certainty. I believe this is the one truth.

[Canuckistani]

I believe that people don't have enough data or brain power to know anything with certainty. I believe this is the one truth.

So they have enough brain power to know this with certainty?