Laws, wars, protests and ANGRY OLD UNCLES

[Wild Bill]

And if I report to the cops and say some kids are smoking weed by the movie theatre, tell me are the cops going to haul ass to the movie theatre?

Probably not. The kids are likely to be gone by the time the cops respond. Still, what's your point? How is that relevant to Harper's crime Bill?

You seemed to be implying that I might get my stereo back! I've been there and know for a fact that would never happen. Yet this Bill is setting MANDATORY sentences, trying to force cops and courts to follow their wishes!

You really think the feds will not respond if the courts and cops ignore their direction?

Edited November 19, 2011 by Wild Bill

[Evening Star]

If you decriminalize one, you have to do it for all the rest. Pot is the line, like alcohol used to be. Decriminalizing pot would lead to people doing harder drugs.

I'm calling BS. I don't see any logical reason why decriminalizing marijuana would either lead to decriminalization of other drugs or would lead to people doing harder drugs. It hasn't happened in the Netherlands or Belgium, for example. If alcohol was 'the line', it hasn't led to decriminalization of other drugs in decades.

And just because there's a black market in cigarettes doesn't mean that people don't still buy legal tobacco and pay taxes on it!

[blueblood]

I'm calling BS. I don't see any logical reason why decriminalizing marijuana would either lead to decriminalization of other drugs or would lead to people doing harder drugs. It hasn't happened in the Netherlands or Belgium, for example. If alcohol was 'the line', it hasn't led to decriminalization of other drugs in decades.

And just because there's a black market in cigarettes doesn't mean that people don't still buy legal tobacco and pay taxes on it!

Was there outrage at pot prohibition in the 1930's. No, it was all about the booze, now it's all about pot. If pot becomes like alcohol, what's next? I don't want to take that chance.

These things take decades to go through, look at it long term.

The number of people buying legal tobacco depends on the tax rate. We want less people smoking altogether in general, not an increase of revenue through sin taxes.

Why the big push to decriminalize pot? What did people try fitting in at high school by getting high, and now they want to fit in with society, is that it? That experiment with the free for all with mind altering substances was tried and society was most definitely worse off because of it.

[Evening Star]

Was there outrage at pot prohibition in the 1930's. No, it was all about the booze, now it's all about pot. If pot becomes like alcohol, what's next? I don't want to take that chance.

Would you favour prohibiting alcohol then, in order to turn back the dangerous trend? Seems like the only logical step. Maybe we should prohibit caffeine too, to be extra safe.

[Shwa]

Would you favour prohibiting alcohol then, in order to turn back the dangerous trend? Seems like the only logical step. Maybe we should prohibit caffeine too, to be extra safe.

And dirty dancing while you are at it because we all know what dirty dancing leads to, *gasp!*

Or we could simply take the billions the Omnibus bill is going to cost and use that to convert the population to Free Methodism.

[Argus]

Bad example, BB. If your stereo gets stolen the cops today do absolutely nothing! Except to give you a report number for your insurance claim.

And since people don't want to make claims for fear their rates will go up people don't even bother calling the cops.

[Argus]

Argus, we're usually on the same side but on this one I think you're flat out wrong! See my other posts in this thread!

I think you read more into my statement of fact than was intended.

It was simply that - a statement of fact.

I'm in favour of experimenting with legalizing grass. As far as I'm concerned the war against drugs failed decades ago. Let's legalize it, distribute it through LCBO type stores, and tax the hell out of it.

I'm worried sick they are going to throw some nice young yuppie couple in jail

,

Unlikely. And maybe they should have been smart enough not to run a grow-up, hmm?

Warren Kinsella will have a field day and the Tories will kiss any hope of winning any big city seats here in the East for a couple of generations!

Oh I doubt that. Generally speaking, the great majority of those who smoke, not to mention grow pot are not likely to be very conservative minded people to begin with. I suspect most conservatives, or those likely to vote that way, would support getting tough on dopers.

[eyeball]

And since people don't want to make claims for fear their rates will go up people don't even bother calling the cops.

Not reporting a crime is a serious crime Argus, shouldn't these people be in jail?

[Argus]

53% of Canadians, according to this 2010 Angus-Reid Poll, support the legalization of marijuana. That's a majority.

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/38770/canadian_majority_would_legalize_marijuana1/

Consuming it, not running a grow-up. Besides, if you break down such polls you'll probably find that huge majorities of young people support legalization, and since they don't vote nobody cares what they think anyway.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Argus

[Argus]

And yet alcohol is legal.

So?

[Argus]

What you don't seem to realize or more likely don't give a shit about is that this legislation targets tens if not hundreds of thousands of people who simply grow marijuana for their own consumption.

6 plants is, as you like to say, mice nuts.

I know a number of people who smoke pot on occasion, good people. I'm even related to some. None of them grow it, though. I would suggest, if you do that, you stop doing that.

[Argus]

And judges have no say?

And what about constitutional rights?

WWWTT

Judges do have a say. As I've stated, they haven't been sending dope growers to jail, even those with hundreds of plants. The government clearly is aiming this at them.

[Argus]

Yet this Bill is setting MANDATORY sentences, trying to force cops and courts to follow their wishes!

Yes. That's what governments do. They're kind of in charge, ya know.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Argus

[PhilosopherKing]

I wonder how much we could make by selling and taxing marihuana in the same way Ontario sells and taxes alcohol.

If we licensed the growers, that would end all the grow-ups that are in cities. If we sold them from special stores, that would put all the dealers who sell grass out of business. There would be huge profit in that. Maybe pay down the deficit a little, hmm?

Edited November 19, 2011 by PhilosopherKing

[CPCFTW]

I wonder how much we could make by selling and taxing marihuana in the same way Ontario sells and taxes alcohol.

If we licensed the growers, that would end all the grow-ups that are in cities. If we sold them from special stores, that would put all the dealers who sell grass out of business. There would be huge profit in that. Maybe pay down the deficit a little, hmm?

Not a bad suggestion but we'd lose a lot more from reduced trade with the US.

Edited November 19, 2011 by CPCFTW

[dre]

Not a bad suggestion but we'd lose a lot more from reduced trade with the US.

Maybe for a while. But how much longer will the US be able keep prohibition in place? State governments are already looking at decriminalization.

The US is moving AHEAD of us on this one. We are going backwards into the dark ages.

[bush_cheney2004]

...The US is moving AHEAD of us on this one. We are going backwards into the dark ages.

That's normal....Canada has historically imposed prohibition for such vices years before the United States.

[dre]

Yes. That's what governments do. They're kind of in charge, ya know.

MMS is a really bad way to "take charge" though. Our system is already decriminalizing the stuff from the ground up. The police, crown, and courts has basically refused to keep feeding minor offenders into the criminal justice system, and if these cases dont even go to trial then mandatory sentences do nothing.

[Shwa]

I wonder how much we could make by selling and taxing marihuana in the same way Ontario sells and taxes alcohol.

If we licensed the growers, that would end all the grow-ups that are in cities. If we sold them from special stores, that would put all the dealers who sell grass out of business. There would be huge profit in that. Maybe pay down the deficit a little, hmm?

No way. We could plow the marijuana tax money into refineries!

[Evening Star]

I wonder how much we could make by selling and taxing marihuana in the same way Ontario sells and taxes alcohol.

If we licensed the growers, that would end all the grow-ups that are in cities. If we sold them from special stores, that would put all the dealers who sell grass out of business. There would be huge profit in that. Maybe pay down the deficit a little, hmm?

That was basically my suggestion. I don't see why it would reduce trade with the US. They're not going to discard their biggest trading partner over this. I don't think so, anyway.

[cybercoma]

Consuming it, not running a grow-up. Besides, if you break down such polls you'll probably find that huge majorities of young people support legalization, and since they don't vote nobody cares what they think anyway.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong, considering the Beatniks of the 60s and the Hippies of the 70s are now at least 50-70 years old. I bet you'll find quite a bit support across the entire spectrum.

By the bye, your argument that young people don't vote is completely beside the point. Legislation is not and should not be made solely for the people who are more likely to vote.

In any case, you said the majority of Canadians and that doesn't appear to be the case.

Edited November 19, 2011 by cybercoma

[cybercoma]

I know a number of people who smoke pot on occasion, good people. I'm even related to some. None of them grow it, though. I would suggest, if you do that, you stop doing that.

They don't grow it because the charges are much higher. So, why would you have good people, you're family even, resort to finding weed in a criminal black market than just grow their own plants?

[cybercoma]

I wonder how much we could make by selling and taxing marihuana in the same way Ontario sells and taxes alcohol.

If we licensed the growers, that would end all the grow-ups that are in cities. If we sold them from special stores, that would put all the dealers who sell grass out of business. There would be huge profit in that. Maybe pay down the deficit a little, hmm?

It wouldn't work. People would be better off growing their own. If you made growing their own illegal, then it's quite obvious that the government is just trying to gouge people who smoke pot.

[PhilosopherKing]

It wouldn't work. People would be better off growing their own. If you made growing their own illegal, then it's quite obvious that the government is just trying to gouge people who smoke pot.

Seriously, how many people try to grow their own tobacco? It can be done, but why bother when you can buy them at the store? The same will happen if you can buy pot at the store. Maybe a few farmers in the boonies might do it, but most people will just buy it from the store.

[cybercoma]

Seriously, how many people try to grow their own tobacco? It can be done, but why bother when you can buy them at the store? The same will happen if you can buy pot at the store. Maybe a few farmers in the boonies might do it, but most people will just buy it from the store.

Tobacco is significantly more difficult to grow for personal use than marijuana