Canada at war with Iran

[dre]

Tell me this...

Pakistan is another extremist backwater and religious basket case. Its probably even less stable than Iran and shares many of the same "features".

Do you think the region would be better now if we had encouraged India to start a massive war with an invasion intended to scuttle pakistans nuclear ambitions, and then trillions of dollars trying to help them win?

The bottom line is that since both those countries aquired nuclear weapons, there has been the closest thing to peace between them in centries. Prior to proliferation those countries fought 4 extremely bloody open wars with each other. Since then we basically just have a few incidents of skirmishes on the border, and some incidence caused by covert action etc.

[olp1fan]

No, I’d rather short term fluctuations in the price, then a sustained increase caused by Iran blockading access.

LOL, you think a war with Iran = short term fluctuations? you realize to stop Iran you'd have to bomb 32 underground bunkers and labs?

its not like when Israel bombed Iraq and Syria's reactors

If Iran were attacked...Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Egypt, Lebannon, Turkey, Russia, China (dozens of other countries) would come to its aid

if not militarily then with support

Edited November 13, 2011 by olp1fan

[Guest Derek L]

Tell me this...

Pakistan is another extremist backwater and religious basket case. Its probably even less stable than Iran and shares many of the same "features".

Do you think the region would be better now if we had encouraged India to start a massive war with an invasion intended to scuttle pakistans nuclear ambitions, and then trillions of dollars trying to help them win?

The bottom line is that since both those countries aquired nuclear weapons, there has been the closest thing to peace between them in centries. Prior to proliferation those countries fought 4 extremely bloody open wars with each other. Since then we basically just have a few incidents of skirmishes on the border, and some incidence caused by covert action etc.

It’s apples and oranges…….India and Pakistan aren’t in a position to dramatically affect the World’s fuel supply…..I don’t really care what they do.

[olp1fan]

It’s apples and oranges…….India and Pakistan aren’t in a position to dramatically affect the World’s fuel supply…..I don’t really care what they do.

remember what caused world war 1? a beef between 2 countries that meant nothing to the rest of the world

[Guest Derek L]

LOL, you think a war with Iran = short term fluctuations? you realize to stop Iran you'd have to bomb 32 underground bunkers and labs?

its not like when Israel bombed Iraq and Syria's reactors

Not necessarily, several 1 MT bombs, detonated above Iran would end any potential threat posed by them, without killing a single Iranian, for a decade or better

If Iran were attacked...Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Egypt, Lebannon, Turkey, Russia, China (dozens of other countries) would come to its aid

if not militarily then with support

So?

[dre]

No, I’d rather short term fluctuations in the price, then a sustained increase caused by Iran blockading access.

No because your course of action is the one that leads to that blockade. Iran isnt threatening any blockade, and such a blockade would hurt their interests just as much as it does ours.

[Guest Derek L]

remember what caused world war 1? a beef between 2 countries that meant nothing to the rest of the world

You’re contradicting yourself…….Those two countries that “meant nothing to anyone else” obviously did……….Be it ethnic, economic and military ties……..The seeds of the First World were sown generations prior by a policy called Mercantilism, which begat Imperialism and colonization, to say nothing of nationalism, all policies that you’ve demonstrated, through various threads that you either support or don’t understand.

[olp1fan]

Not necessarily, several 1 MT bombs, detonated above Iran would end any potential threat posed by them, without killing a single Iranian, for a decade or better

So?

So you want Israel to drop a nuke over Iran and the good news is it doesn't kill any Iranians for a decade?

wow, good plan there

Edited November 13, 2011 by olp1fan

[olp1fan]

You’re contradicting yourself…….Those two countries that “meant nothing to anyone else” obviously did……….Be it ethnic, economic and military ties……..The seeds of the First World were sown generations prior by a policy called Mercantilism, which begat Imperialism and colonization, to say nothing of nationalism, all policies that you’ve demonstrated, through various threads that you either support or don’t understand.

Meant nothing with regards to the global economy..the other countries were bound to them by treaties

[Guest Derek L]

No because your course of action is the one that leads to that blockade. Iran isnt threatening any blockade, and such a blockade would hurt their interests just as much as it does ours.

And why aren’t they threatening a blockade? (Western & Israeli)Deterrence……..Why do they want nuclear weapons? Deterrence……..

[Guest Derek L]

So you want Israel to drope a nuke over Iran and the good news is it doesn't kill any Iranians for a decade?

wow, good plan there

No, I'd want them to use an EMP weapon over Iran.

[olp1fan]

No, I'd want them to use an EMP weapon over Iran.

lol, according to some American politicans Iran is preparing to use an EMP @ the U,S

http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2011/11/13/iran-practicing-for-an-emp-attack-on-the-u-s-say-u-s-lawmakers-but-how-credible-is-that-claim/

EMP attacks are useful, I've seen them used on the show 24 by terrorists quite a few times

Edited November 13, 2011 by olp1fan

[Guest Derek L]

Meant nothing with regards to the global economy..the other countries were bound to them by treaties

Are you suggesting the Germans, United Kingdom, French, Austrians, Russians, and Americans didn’t have global interests at that time?

[Guest Derek L]

lol, according to some American politicans Iran is preparing to use an EMP @ the U,S

http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2011/11/13/iran-practicing-for-an-emp-attack-on-the-u-s-say-u-s-lawmakers-but-how-credible-is-that-claim/

EMP attacks are useful, I've seen them used on the show 24 by terrorists quite a few times

They need nukes first.....Kinda the point of this thread no?

[olp1fan]

Are you suggesting the Germans, United Kingdom, French, Austrians, Russians, and Americans didn’t have global interests at that time?

No I meant the world probably didn't have much interests in the austria hungary or Serbia

its just they had pacts with other nations that would defend them

[olp1fan]

They need nukes first.....Kinda the point of this thread no?

Iran isn't going to use the nukes, the nukes guarantee them security from being attacked by foreign countries

as well as taken more seriously on international levels

[dre]

And why aren’t they threatening a blockade? (Western & Israeli)Deterrence……..Why do they want nuclear weapons? Deterrence……..

Because they want avoid becoming the next Iraq.

This goes back to what I said before about how our actions cause unintended results and make the problem worse. When we attacked Iraq, wiped out its government, most of its infrastructure, and a fair ammount of its inhabitants we made Iran more influencial in the region both by removing their main natural enemy (Iraq Baathists), and by dramatically increasing their oil revenues.

So now we have to wack another mole... and another... and another.

THe biggest chance we have of avoiding the blockade you mention is to use backchannels with the Israeli government to strongly discourage them from an active war that would damage the global economy and to make sure we dont do anything that might seen as encouragement.

[Guest Derek L]

No I meant the world probably didn't have much interests in the austria hungary or Serbia

its just they had pacts with other nations that would defend them

Ethnic ties, not only diplomatic……Serbs are of a common “Slavic stock” as the Russians, same as the Austrians and Germans of similar ties…….Said diplomatic alliances took into account each members various colonies and interests around the globe.

[Guest Derek L]

Iran isn't going to use the nukes, the nukes guarantee them security from being attacked by foreign countries

as well as taken more seriously on international levels

Then if they will never use them, why do they need them? Deterrence isn’t very good strategy without the threat of force.

[Guest Derek L]

Because they want avoid becoming the next Iraq.

This goes back to what I said before about how our actions cause unintended results and make the problem worse. When we attacked Iraq, wiped out its government, most of its infrastructure, and a fair ammount of its inhabitants we made Iran more influencial in the region both by removing their main natural enemy (Iraq Baathists), and by dramatically increasing their oil revenues.

So now we have to wack another mole... and another... and another.

THe biggest chance we have of avoiding the blockade you mention is to use backchannels with the Israeli government to strongly discourage them from an active war that would damage the global economy and to make sure we dont do anything that might seen as encouragement.

And that goes back to the crux of my argument…….Why not use said backchannels to encourage Iran to stop the development of nuclear weapons and their continued support of Hezbollah?

[olp1fan]

Then if they will never use them, why do they need them? Deterrence isn’t very good strategy without the threat of force.

probably because of U.S invading its neighbours... if someone kept breaking into houses around you aren't you going to guarantee yourself security in case they try yours?

[bush_cheney2004]

Iran isn't going to use the nukes, the nukes guarantee them security from being attacked by foreign countries

It "guarantees" no such thing....see Falkland Islands.

[dre]

Then if they will never use them, why do they need them? Deterrence isn’t very good strategy without the threat of force.

Same reason every other nuclear country wanted them. They drastically reduce the likelyhood of you having to defend your country against a large conventional war or invasion.

Same reason people some people want to have a handgun in the house. Its not necessarily becausing they are dying to shoot anyone.

[olp1fan]

And that goes back to the crux of my argument…….Why not use said backchannels to encourage Iran to stop the development of nuclear weapons and their continued support of Hezbollah?

its time to put tough sanctions both on israel and iran..both need to stop with its behaviour

[Guest Derek L]

probably because of U.S invading its neighbours... if someone kept breaking into houses around you aren't you going to guarantee yourself security in case they try yours?

But why does Iran support Hezbollah and threaten Israel? America is pulling out of Iraq in the coming month completely, and Afghanistan in the coming years.