bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 ...Still, there's one unanswered question. If the balloon does up in the middle East, like Iran nuking Israel or closing the Straits of Hormuz, what ARE you Americans going to do? More or this: http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm ..and a lot more of this (Warning: language may not be suitable for all family members): Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
olp1fan Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 Still, there's one unanswered question. If the balloon does up in the middle East, like Iran nuking Israel or closing the Straits of Hormuz, what ARE you Americans going to do? Reserves are just that, reserves. Sooner or later they run out. Meanwhile, the price of oil at your pumps will go through the roof almost immediately. Do those voters against the pipeline properly understand this? Or do they think that somehow Obama will wave a magic wand? Wouldn't airline tickets, bus tickets, train tickets, subway tickets become more expensive too? As well as all of the other day to day things that is made out of oil. Stability when it comes to oil should always trump a mere 1 million people if you're trying to look after 312 million people that's common sense eh? Obama will fry for this, the republicans will throw him under the bus Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) Wouldn't airline tickets, bus tickets, train tickets, subway tickets become more expensive too? As well as all of the other day to day things that is made out of oil. Those things have already gotten more expensive and America manages to survive. Hell, many cost even more in Canada! Stability when it comes to oil should always trump a mere 1 million people if you're trying to look after 312 million people that's common sense eh? Not in a constitutional republic. Obama will fry for this, the republicans will throw him under the bus No, it's not that big a deal for the US, but it's fun to watch you guys get very excited! What ever happened to "America Sucks...we don't need them!" ? Edited November 12, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
olp1fan Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 No, it's not that big a deal for the US, but it's fun to watch you guys get very excited! What ever happened to "America Sucks...we don't need them!" ? reading comments from CNN and foxnews articles everyone seems to be upset...even MSNBC, Fark article comment pages are criticizing obama on this sorry but the left and right agree this was a major screw up Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 reading comments from CNN and foxnews articles everyone seems to be upset...even MSNBC, Fark article comment pages are criticizing obama on this sorry but the left and right agree this was a major screw up You are reading these things through/because of political "optics", not the larger scheme of things. America has over 2 million miles of pipelines....do the math. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Argus Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 A good chunk of the protest groups came from California and then there is the celebrities that live in california... And I wonder if they had a little help from abroad... China will attempt to drive an economic and political wedge between Canada and the United States as it moves for a greater stake in this country’s natural resources, celebrity historian Niall Ferguson said Friday. China will seek to drive wedge between U|S and Canada Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 For the companies obviously……….But, as I stated above, we’d get and additional $15-20 per barrel with the terminus in Houston as opposed to the current one in Cushing Oklahoma…….It defiantly benefit’s the oil companies, but also Canada as a whole………more taxable profit etc. And we'd get even more with the terminal in BC... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
cybercoma Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 And I wonder if they had a little help from abroad... China will attempt to drive an economic and political wedge between Canada and the United States as it moves for a greater stake in this country’s natural resources, celebrity historian Niall Ferguson said Friday. China will seek to drive wedge between U|S and Canada Ferguson may be right. It's worth considering, but I would take anything that guy says with a grain of salt. He presents himself as an academic, but has been heavily criticized for producing very little original work. Quote
Argus Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 A 20 billion dollar refinery is not chump change. An investment like that would be very hard on a company's books. It was a no brained to send the oil to Texas as planned. This pipeline was supposed to carry 800k barrels per day. Right now we're selling oil at a $20 a barrel discount, right? 800k x 20 is $16 m per day X 365 is a cost of $5.8 billion per year the lack of a pipeline is costing. Seems to me that building a refinery to handle it here is the no brainer. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) Ferguson may be right. It's worth considering, but I would take anything that guy says with a grain of salt. He presents himself as an academic, but has been heavily criticized for producing very little original work. Maybe, but it makes sense. The Russians were certainly involved in helping the west's peace movement. The Chinese are heavily invested in obtaining resources by any means, fair or foul. I'd think they would see sabotaging the keystone pipeline as a glorious opportunity to open up Canadian oil to them. They've already bought into the oil sands, and now they'll push for pipelines to the coast. Probably be willing to fund them themselves, along with any terminal needed to load the oil. Meanwhile all those Californians in their SUVs will be high fiving each other on what a great job they did for the environment. Edited November 12, 2011 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Guest American Woman Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 Thanks for correcting me on the Nebraska/Nevada thing. I admit I'm not that good on foreign geography, AW! No problem. I've misread things myself - it's easy enough to do. It does seem to boil down to each party having to decide what's best for themselves. America is going one way and Canada will go another. It's not over til it's over. It remains to be seen what will ultimately happen. I wouldn't rule out the pipeline being rerouted. Still, there's one unanswered question. If the balloon does up in the middle East, like Iran nuking Israel or closing the Straits of Hormuz, what ARE you Americans going to do? We wouldn't sit idly be doing nothing, that's for sure. Americans have lived through tough times before and would do so again. We sure aren't going to dismiss legitimate concerns out of fear of that happening. If the pipeline were to jeopardize the main source of water, the consequences would be major. Nebraska receives about 80 percent of its public drinking water and nearly 100% of its private water supply from ground water sources. Agriculture (the largest business) is dependent on this resource as well. link As I pointed out earlier, the response from Canadians on this board re: the U.S. needing water from Canada in the future was less than neighborly, so if we don't look out for ourselves, who will? Reserves are just that, reserves. Sooner or later they run out. Meanwhile, the price of oil at your pumps will go through the roof almost immediately. Do those voters against the pipeline properly understand this? Or do they think that somehow Obama will wave a magic wand? I'm confident that at some point in the future our need for oil will be greatly diminished. As for the present, I'm not willing to put the well being of fellow Americans in jeopardy for cheaper prices at the gas pump. Cheap(er) oil isn't the only thing at stake here. Quote
Argus Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 Oh the irony...Canadians sure as hell "waited" for American capital and technology to invest in the tarsands oil extraction process, development of the site, existing pipeline infrastructure, refining capacity, and distribution to American markets. Now all of the sudden Canada can do it all by themselves? LOL! I suspect the Chinese will be willing to help with as much money as we want. Might even build us a refinery if we guarantee they get the proceeds. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Guest American Woman Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 I suspect the Chinese will be willing to help with as much money as we want. Might even build us a refinery if we guarantee they get the proceeds. Sounds like the beginnings of a great friendship obligation. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 I suspect the Chinese will be willing to help with as much money as we want. Might even build us a refinery if we guarantee they get the proceeds. Sounds good to me...China holds about 11% of US federal debt...and is bidding for more. What have you guys been waiting for? Gee...you might have to actually build something! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 ...Meanwhile all those Californians in their SUVs will be high fiving each other on what a great job they did for the environment. ...and all the Canadians in Oshawa who built the SUV's in the first place. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
olp1fan Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 And I wonder if they had a little help from abroad... China will attempt to drive an economic and political wedge between Canada and the United States as it moves for a greater stake in this country’s natural resources, celebrity historian Niall Ferguson said Friday. China will seek to drive wedge between U|S and Canada The Americans do a good job all by themselves of driving a wedge between Canada and the U,S So it seems like Canada will play the middle power again but instead of U.S. U.S.S.R it is U.S and China interesting Quote
olp1fan Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) No problem. I've misread things myself - it's easy enough to do. It's not over til it's over. It remains to be seen what will ultimately happen. I wouldn't rule out the pipeline being rerouted. It is over. How much would you like to bet that Obama snubs Harper ...they were supposed to meet and talk Sunday along with the Mexican President but he had to cancel due to the tragic death of one of his ministers. I see no reason why the two of them can't sit down and discuss the pipeline decision. But yeah if you expect Canada to wait until the 2012 election is over you can kiss our asses Edited November 12, 2011 by olp1fan Quote
Wild Bill Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 What ever happened to "America Sucks...we don't need them!" ? Well, that's never been MY sentiment, BC! And I would approve of strong military action against any aggressive move by Iran. That being said, if it happens during Obama's watch, I don't share your faith that America would take decisive action. Remember what Clinton did? Blowing up an aspirin factory in the Sudan with a cruise missile as a retaliation for attacks on US embassies? And he did NOTHING about the USS Cole! With Obama, I think we'd get more of the same. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Guest American Woman Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 It is over. Perhaps you should pass that information on to TransCanada's execs. “It’s difficult, but we’ll figure out a way to route this thing that makes the most people happy,” said [ Sean McMaster, executive v.p. of TransCanada]. link Quote
olp1fan Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) Perhaps you should pass that information on to TransCanada's execs. “It’s difficult, but we’ll figure out a way to route this thing that makes the most people happy,” said [ Sean McMaster, executive v.p. of TransCanada]. link They are already looking at Asia and they said that because they think Harper can talk sense into Odumba they aren't going to wait 2 years for the U.S to make up their mind Edited November 12, 2011 by olp1fan Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 The Americans do a good job all by themselves of driving a wedge between Canada and the U,S So it seems like Canada will play the middle power again but instead of U.S. U.S.S.R it is U.S and China interesting What we have here is a failure to communicate. Canadians think that the US is their closest ally and it's all about them, but the Americans have a lot more going on than just a fickle northern border country that exports 75% to America. Canada's myopia and frankly lazy dependence on that cozy pillow needs to get shaken up a bit. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest American Woman Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) They are already looking at Asia and they said that because they think Harper can talk sense into Odumba "Odumba." My, you are clever, aren't you? I'm sure they're looking into a lot of options, including rerouting it. As I said, it ain't over. they aren't going to wait 2 years for the U.S to make up their mind Fine. Nothing wrong with Canada getting the consolation prize, eh? Edited November 12, 2011 by American Woman Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 ....Fine. Nothing wrong with Canada getting the consolation prize, eh? 'Zactly...I wonder if they remember what happened on softwood lumber? Who was "dumba" then? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
olp1fan Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) Don't mess with the Beaver They might be proud and noble animals but they'll chew your ankles off that is your future Edited November 12, 2011 by olp1fan Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2011 Report Posted November 12, 2011 Don't mess with the Beaver ..as long as that lasts...as usual...some Canadians want to change even that. The identity crisis continues unabated. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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