Finance Minister Flaherty announces delay to balance budgets

[blueblood]

That isn't even close to true. This government has essentially continued the Paul Martin policies, except for their stupid affinity for tax credits and the (albeit temporary) loosening of the mortgage market. Flaherty is doing a good job, but to deny that it was Chretien and Martin that brought us to this place is to deny reality.

The Chretien years were the golden age. Our economy, in 20 years, nearly tripled in size.

Then you have to throw manning and Mulroney in there too. Manning kept saying cut more and gave Martin a free pass on the cutting thus allowing it to be easily swallowed by the public, and Mulroney negotiated nafta and fell on His sword with the gst.

[Shady]

No, that isn't all that happened. Everything in the federal government, save a few personal transfers, was cut. There was no other way to do what was done.

Exactly right. Martin and Chretien deserve a lot of credit. Our debt levels were beginning to get into dangerous territory. And they cut federal spending significantly. Not because they necessarily wanted to do. But because it was the right thing to do, for long term prosperity. And today, we're in a much better position than almost any other western country.

Also, the Canadian economy won't fully recover until the American economy does. The fact that a year and a half from now were going to be back to a balanced budget is tremendous. Most countries are trying to put together 10 and 15 year plans to get into that position.

[Smallc]

The fact that a year and a half from now were going to be back to a balanced budget is tremendous.

I don't think that will happen now, but after next year, barring the total economic collapse of the world, provincial and federal deficits become small enough that debt to GDP ratios stop going up, and begin to increase.

[Smallc]

Then you have to throw manning and Mulroney in there too. Manning kept saying cut more and gave Martin a free pass on the cutting thus allowing it to be easily swallowed by the public, and Mulroney negotiated nafta and fell on His sword with the gst.

That's true actually, Manning did put pressure on (although I think that the international pressure would have been enough), and Mulroney did become smarter about spending in his second term as PM.

[blueblood]

That's true actually, Manning did put pressure on (although I think that the international pressure would have been enough), and Mulroney did become smarter about spending in his second term as PM.

The bond vultures mostly and the credit downgrade helped. Manning made it so that Martin got away with cutting spending when going to the electorate in 97. It was the exact opposite parliament back then. Opposition amounted to "you didn't do enough of the right thing" vs today's opposition amounting to "your wrong and were right". I forget where it was on tv, but the person said it was very unique circumstances in cdn. History which allowed for that to take place.

[punked]

I don't think that will happen now, but after next year, barring the total economic collapse of the world, provincial and federal deficits become small enough that debt to GDP ratios stop going up, and begin to increase.

That an insane consider the Feds plan on passing a "Tough on crime bill" that will create 7-10 Billion in new spending over the next 5 years. Sorry downloading the debt again.

[Smallc]

That an insane consider the Feds plan on passing a "Tough on crime bill" that will create 7-10 Billion in new spending over the next 5 years. Sorry downloading the debt again.

First, that's only according to estimates from a source that hasn't been right as many times as the government, and second, the provinces have to pay for this type of bill. They've alway had to pay for it.

[punked]

First, that's only according to estimates from a source that hasn't been right as many times as the government, and second, the provinces have to pay for this type of bill. They've alway had to pay for it.

Yep they have to pay for it so why should the Feds ever worry about what laws they pass. It isn't like California didn't just release 60,000 people because they couldn't afford the same bill or anything. Who cares about bad policy when they don't have to pay for it.

[Smallc]

Yep they have to pay for it so why should the Feds ever worry about what laws they pass. It isn't like California didn't just release 60,000 people because they couldn't afford the same bill or anything.

That isn't even close to a similar situation (California can't carry debt, and they have far more prisoners - this isn't the same bill). By this logic though, you should be very happy that the long gun registry is going away.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Smallc

[mentalfloss]

Once again, Conservatives fail so hard that they can't even be conservatives anymore.

[punked]

That isn't even close to a similar situation (California can't carry debt, and they have far more prisoners - this isn't the same bill). By this logic though, you should be very happy that the long gun registry is going away.

I am happy the long registry is going away. I am not happy the Conservatives aren't helping the provinces who want to set their own up save some money. Again they don't care about provinces finances they could care less just more proof.

[blueblood]

I am happy the long registry is going away. I am not happy the Conservatives aren't helping the provinces who want to set their own up save some money. Again they don't care about provinces finances they could care less just more proof.

So you don't want privacy rights?

[punked]

So you don't want privacy rights?

I have no clue what you are talking about. Seriously I am looking at left field and you aren't even coming out of there you are coming from the stands right now.

Like it or not Quebec is setting up a gun registry now the question is do the Conservatives want to help out and save some money for tax payers or do they want to destroy everything and tell send a nice message to the provinces. "We don't care, we don't want to help save you money, even though your tax payers are the same as ours we want them to pay pay pay because the provinces can shove."

That seems to be the message time and time again from this government so......

[blueblood]

I have no clue what you are talking about. Seriously I am looking at left field and you aren't even coming out of there you are coming from the stands right now.

Like it or not Quebec is setting up a gun registry now the question is do the Conservatives want to help out and save some money for tax payers or do they want to destroy everything and tell send a nice message to the provinces. "We don't care, we don't want to help save you money, even though your tax payers are the same as ours we want them to pay pay pay because the provinces can shove."

That seems to be the message time and time again from this government so......

Well, there is the argument that the federal gov't giving info away on the current people in the registry is an invasion of their privacy rights.

If Quebec is so keen on saving money, maybe they can't afford a gun registry.

[punked]

Well, there is the argument that the federal gov't giving info away on the current people in the registry is an invasion of their privacy rights.

If Quebec is so keen on saving money, maybe they can't afford a gun registry.

Yah privacy commissioner looked into that made up argument and tore it to shreds. Fact is provinces and the Feds Share your information for much more private things everyday. Again what it comes down it is the Feds don't care what the people of different provinces want and wouldn't lift a finger to save provincial tax payers money. This is just another example.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/QPeriod/20111101/privacy-watchdog-blasts-gun-registry-data-purge-111101/

[blueblood]

Yah privacy commissioner looked into that made up argument and tore it to shreds. Fact is provinces and the Feds Share your information for much more private things everyday. Again what it comes down it is the Feds don't care what the people of different provinces want and wouldn't lift a finger to save provincial tax payers money. This is just another example.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/QPeriod/20111101/privacy-watchdog-blasts-gun-registry-data-purge-111101/

Fact is, it's the Feds info to destroy if they want to. Fact is quebec is so far in debt they can't afford a registry. And fact is if the Quebec gov't wants to save tax money they can quit spending.

[punked]

Fact is, it's the Feds info to destroy if they want to. Fact is quebec is so far in debt they can't afford a registry. And fact is if the Quebec gov't wants to save tax money they can quit spending.

Yah I get you are a Conservative you would never want the Provincial tax payers money saved but don't want to say that so you hide behind made up excuses. I get it already you don't have prove it but thanks for showing the attitude that is so predominate in the party. "Screw the provinces and provincial tax payers what do we care it isn't like they are the same people who we represent or anything...."

[blueblood]

Yah I get you are a Conservative you would never want the Provincial tax payers money saved but don't want to say that so you hide behind made up excuses. I get it already you don't have prove it but thanks for showing the attitude that is so predominate in the party. "Screw the provinces and provincial tax payers what do we care it isn't like they are the same people who we represent or anything...."

Nobody's screwing the provinces but themselves. I do want tax money saved, if programs are too expensive, maybe they shouldn't be implemented. Why should Ontario, Nfld, sask, Alberta, and bc pay for quebec's gun registry?

So the fact that quebec is one of the most endebted jurisdictions in Canada is made up?

[punked]

Nobody's screwing the provinces but themselves. I do want tax money saved, if programs are too expensive, maybe they shouldn't be implemented. Why should Ontario, Nfld, sask, Alberta, and bc pay for quebec's gun registry?

So the fact that quebec is one of the most endebted jurisdictions in Canada is made up?

No one wants what you claim. Here you are again using a false misleading argument. Right now there is Data and a registry created all Quebec wants is for the government with no cost to them give them the data so they don't have to spend the money THE FEDS ALREADY SPENT to get the data.

Again the Feds are telling the tax payers of provinces who might want to set up a registry "Yes we have the stuff you need at no cost to us and a significant savings to you but we don't care how much it costs because it isn't our dollars"

It is as simple as that. Just like with their new crime bill they are saying "We get you are cash strapped but guess what we don't care if you have to cut Education and Health because it isn't our dollars we want you to spend more on putting non-violent offenders behind bars for longer"

That is this governments MO telling the provinces even though they can help they wont because they don't care about the provincial tax payers.

[fellowtraveller]

Like it or not Quebec is setting up a gun registry now the question is do the Conservatives want to help out and save some money for tax payers

Point of order: it is an affront to common sense and decency to mention 'Quebec' and 'save some money for tax payers' in the same sentence. I know it would never be said in polite company in Quebec.

[punked]

Point of order: it is an affront to common sense and decency to mention 'Quebec' and 'save some money for tax payers' in the same sentence. I know it would never be said in polite company in Quebec.

It should not matter what province it is if any level of government can easily save another money it should but not with the Conservatives they don't care about the tax payer. Must be why they are ready to raise pay roll taxes on both employers and employees.

[Smallc]

now the question is do the Conservatives want to help out and save some money for tax payers or do they want to destroy everything and tell send a nice message to the provinces.

The answer is no, because they don't want any type of registry to exist.

[Smallc]

Must be why they are ready to raise pay roll taxes on both employers and employees.

So then we shouldn't work to ensure that EI is self sustaining? Typical federal NDP position.

[punked]

The answer is no, because they don't want any type of registry to exist.

I get that but fact is when the provinces decide they want a registry at that point it isn't their decision. Now their decision is do we save tax payers some money and help out or do we screw them. They have gone with the second option as they always do.

[Smallc]

I get that but fact is when the provinces decide they want a registry at that point it isn't their decision.

Yeah, actually it's still their decision. They don't have to share the info, because they want to make it as difficult as possible to set up any kind of registry. They don't have to share it, and they won't.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Smallc