I would like to see a protest against .....

[bush_cheney2004]

Let's just agree to disagree and let the thread move back towards the OP....

Fine by me...I'm not telling you how to run Canada's government or financial system, but some of you guys sure do get off on telling the US what to do.

Edited October 21, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[msj]

Hank Paulsen did as you suggest with Lehman Bros, and then faced the abyss. The US is not Japan, nor Sweden.

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.

That was not a pre-packaged bankrupcty.

It was an ill-considered panicked fire sale that was handled extremely incompetently.

msj, Calculated Risk is a real estate blog, made famous in a real estate bubble. Barry Ritholtz manages other people's money, and sells books. He understandably tells some people want they want to hear.

And both of them provide excellent commentary and an excellent forum for guest authors to posit their views on economic matters.

Stop pretending you have even been to their blogs for even more than a quick glance - I know it's complete crap so don't play that game with me.

Haircut? As Bernanke wisely said, if your neighbour's house is on fire, and even if your neighbour is Al Capone, it makes sense to put out the fire.

Sure, and the reason we have professional fire departments is to make sure it gets put out efficiently and effectively.

The US "solution" to its banking crisis/debt bubble has been neither.

[msj]

Fine by me...I'm not telling you how to run Canada's government or financial system, but some of you guys sure do get off on telling the US what to do.

Well, you won't see me at any protests.

As for this forum - I don't see how discussion such things, and pointing out links to how other Americans think things should be handled, counts as telling the US what to do.

Even if it does - free country and free forum so f- off, eh?

[bush_cheney2004]

Well, you won't see me at any protests.

No..that might cost some money!

As for this forum - I don't see how discussion such things, and pointing out links to how other Americans think things should be handled, counts as telling the US what to do.

Do you really think that the US should consider your rebaked assessment of American opinions and actions...from Canada, or any place else? You offer nothing original, and certainly not this late in the game.

Even if it does - free country and free forum so f- off, eh?

Sure...it's fun to pretend you can run with the big dogs.

[msj]

No..that might cost some money!

I can afford the bus fare but I'd rather work and make money so, yes, it would cost money!

Do you really think that the US should consider your rebaked assessment of American opinions and actions...from Canada, or any place else? You offer nothing original, and certainly not this late in the game.

No, I don't know anyone named "US" so how am I going to get him/her to consider my "rebaked assessment?"

[bush_cheney2004]

I can afford the bus fare but I'd rather work and make money so, yes, it would cost money!

Well, we all know how you feel about that! Americans waste lots of money, and that just kills you.

No, I don't know anyone named "US" so how am I going to get him/her to consider my "rebaked assessment?"

That's good, because TBTF and "Let Them Fail!" are certainly not very original. The deed is done, much to the chagrin of many Americans; peanut gallery opinion that only reflects what's already been stated in America is less than exciting input.

[August1991]

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.

That was not a pre-packaged bankrupcty.

It was an ill-considered panicked fire sale that was handled extremely incompetently.

Sez you.

msj, Barry Ritholtz is a good Monday morning quarterback - who knows his audience.

Edited October 21, 2011 by August1991

[BubberMiley]

I agree with the OP. It's hypocritical to take on the strong and leave the weak alone. I believe it was Christ who often preached about rallying against the less fortunate.

[Guest American Woman]

I agree with the OP. It's hypocritical to take on the strong and leave the weak alone. I believe it was Christ who often preached about rallying against the less fortunate.

"Weak?" People who look for the easy way out, who abuse the system/commit fraud, are morally weak - but hardly weak in the "less fortunate" way in which you bring Christ into this. Good Lord. There aren't enough :rolleyes: :rolleyes:'s in the universe for that response.

[BubberMiley]

People on welfare are financially weak. There may be a few who commit fraud, but I think that is way, way overblown as an issue. The amount of financial damage that Wallstreeters have done far, far exceeds the few able-bodied welfare recipients out there.

But I agree that some days there just aren't enough smiley faces.

[Guest American Woman]

People on welfare are financially weak.

Ummmm. Not everyone. Which was the point of the OP.

There may be a few who commit fraud, but I think that is way, way overblown as an issue.

There's no "may" about it, and it's a helluva lot more than a few, so what you think is just that - what you think.

The amount of financial damage that Wallstreeters have done far, far exceeds the few able-bodied welfare recipients out there.

Yeah, "few." That you choose to gloss over that aspect of abuse of the system and the resulting cost to the taxpayers/economy just confirms my point. Thanks for that.

I used as many smiley faces as the system allows. Hope that makes your day.

[BubberMiley]

Hope that makes your day.[/size]

It does make my day. Thank you.

I'm waiting for the welfare fraud stats. You're always good with the linky.

[cybercoma]

There's no "may" about it, and it's a helluva lot more than a few, so what you think is just that - what you think.

Prove it! Dammit, you're obnoxious. Every single thread people show you statistics proving you wrong and you bring absolutely nothing to the table in terms of evidence to support your claims. I already showed you the extent of welfare fraud in Ontario. There is a massive number of investigations with a miniscule number that actually are fraudulent. I even posted the study for you. You have done absolutely nothing, but spout your worthless opinion about how much welfare fraud you think exists. Had you actually read the study, you would know that people wildly over-report fraud. People like you think that it's way out of control when the reality is that it's heavily policed and fraud amounts to something around 1% of the total welfare cases. So, put up some evidence to support your claims or stfu.

[bush_cheney2004]

Welfare fraud is rampant...people hate that more than they hate "rich people".

Welfare Fraud Plagues Californy

Edited October 22, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[BubberMiley]

So, put up some evidence to support your claims or stfu.

:lol:

[bush_cheney2004]

... So, put up some evidence to support your claims or stfu.

This is laughable...you are the first violator of such a request. What a goof!

[BubberMiley]

From the link that was likely not read past the headline:

"“If we can’t stop welfare recipients from buying cigarettes and alcohol, we have a problem,” said David Wolfe the Legislative Director at the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association."

:lol:

[Guest American Woman]

Welfare fraud is rampant...people hate that more than they hate "rich people".

Welfare Fraud Plagues Californy

Not just California. Welfare Fraud and Abuse

Again, I wonder how much goes undetected. It's not as if people claiming to be disabled are going to admit that they really aren't just as people who keep having baby after baby on the public's dime aren't about to take out a banner claiming that they are abusing the system just as people who work as little as possible and collect as many benefits as possible aren't likely to call up the government and announce their intentions, nor are people working for cash likely to report it to the IRS.

I think it's safe to say that fraud and abuse that we are aware of is the tip of the iceberg. Apparently that' laughable, though. Definitely not something to get upset over. We should only be concerned when it involves the rich.

Investigating Welfare Fraud & Abuse

Edited October 22, 2011 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

Again, I wonder how much goes undetected.

Lots...things really went south when states converted payments to debit cards to save costs. This opened the door to all kinds of fun and games. When I was kid working as a cashier, we knew exactly who was on welfare, food stamps, WIC, etc. because they had to stand in line and suffer "The Look" from hard working taxpayers. That stigma was taken away by hiding the evidence of being on the dole.

I think it's safe to say that fraud and abuse that we are aware of is the tip of the iceberg. Apparently that' laughable, though. Definitely not something to get upset over. We should only be concerned when it involves the rich.

For sure....I loved the $16,000 ATM withdrawal on a CRUISE SHIP!

[Guest American Woman]

Lots...things really went south when states converted payments to debit cards to save costs. This opened the door to all kinds of fun and games. When I was kid working as a cashier, we knew exactly who was on welfare, food stamps, WIC, etc. because they had to stand in line and suffer "The Look" from hard working taxpayers. That stigma was taken away by hiding the evidence of being on the dole.

There's been a change in attitude, too, I think. A lot of people seem to take the 'victim' stance; they are owed a living by virtue of having less than others, and if they can get something for nothing, why not? So I think the 'those with more money than I have owe me a living' attitude that seems so much more prevalent today doesn't help matters any. The responses in this thread are telling, IMO. Welfare abuse/fraud should be as big a concern as tax loopholes et al, but it's being glossed over, downplayed, and LOL'd over.

For sure....I loved the $16,000 ATM withdrawal on a CRUISE SHIP!

Where was this? I must have missed that.

----------------------------------

Welfare Fraud Hurts Job Creation

Where's the outrage?

[BubberMiley]

It's not as if people claiming to be disabled are going to admit that they really aren't just as people who keep having baby after baby on the public's dime aren't about to take out a banner claiming that they are abusing the system just as people who work as little as possible and collect as many benefits as possible aren't likely to call up the government and announce their intentions, nor are people working for cash likely to report it to the IRS.

You really believe the looting of pension funds to provide CEOs with massive bonuses is as morally wrong as someone "having baby after baby on the public's dime?"

[Guest American Woman]

You really believe the looting of pension funds to provide CEOs with massive bonuses is as morally wrong as someone "having baby after baby on the public's dime?"

Actually, people having baby after baby on my dime affects me more as a tax payer than the looting of pension funds - which affected me not at all. It's not about which is more morally wrong - it's not a contest. Wrong is wrong, and it's all costing the system, affecting the budget, costing the taxpayers. It makes no sense to me to care about only one end of it. And quite frankly, I find both situations to be morally wrong.

[BubberMiley]

Wrong is wrong, and it's all costing the system, affecting the budget, costing the taxpayers.

Really, it's just a black and white issue to you? Bernie Madoff or someone stealing a can of Klik---all the same sh-t?

[Guest American Woman]

Really, it's just a black and white issue to you? Bernie Madoff or someone stealing a can of Klik---all the same sh-t?

If that's what you got out of what I said, so be it. You just keep proving my point .............

[cybercoma]

You can't put up evidence so you rely on "undetected" welfare fraud. The mysterious fraud that doens't exist. Except you're forgetting that welfare recipients are highly monitored. The article that I posted about Ontario, the largest provincial jurisdiction in our country, had tens of thousands of investigations with a handful of frauds. If one thing is for damn sure, it's highly unlikely that there's massive amounts of undetected fraud. What a joke.