Dismantling of the Canadian Wheat Board.

[Shwa]

Personally, I can't believe that these communist boards were ever allowed to exist in the first place. A cooperative that they all can join is great, but that they HAVE TO sell to? Are you freaking kidding me? Where do we live, North Korea?

Yes, they are "communist boards."

[Bryan]

Looks like Ritz may be right afterall:

CWB ruling will be overturned

Campbell said the bill — which will eliminate the Canadian Wheat Board’s monopoly — is unlawful because government failed to consult the CWB or hold a vote among grain farmers.

Trouble is, nowhere in the act does it say those are legal requirements government must follow before eliminating the single-desk system.

To be honest, Campbell’s written decision reads more like political commentary than a judicial ruling. It has more to do with the judge’s personal beliefs than the rule of law.

He has essentially read a rule into the Canadian Wheat Board Act — under Sec. 47.1 — that simply doesn’t exist.

He may want it to exist. He may think the government has a moral obligation to hold a vote among farmers before eliminating the board’s monopoly. But that’s not what the law says.

What Sec. 47.1 of the act does say very clearly is that Parliament shall not introduce a bill under the existing monopoly “that would exclude any kind, type, class or grade of wheat or barley, or wheat or barley produced in any area in Canada” without consulting with the CWB and without getting the approval of grain farmers through a vote.

That law came into effect in 1998 and was clearly designed to ensure farmers had binding control over which products would be included or excluded from the monopoly scheme.

If, for example, Parliament tried to remove barley from the monopoly without holding a vote, government would be in violation of its own act.

But that’s not what C-18 is about. The bill doesn’t contemplate adding or removing products from the monopoly scheme. The bill eliminates the monopoly altogether.

Campbell says while it may not state specifically that a vote is required before ending the single-desk system, the rule is implied.

Unfortunately for him, he makes a very weak case on how such a requirement could possibly be implied in this case. He may want it to be implied, but the act doesn’t suggest in any way that a vote must be held under these circumstances.

If it was the intent of Parliament to bind future parliamentarians with the self-imposed law that a plebiscite is required before winding down the single-desk system, they would have put it in the act. They did not.

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2011/12/07/cwb-ruling-will-be-overturned-brodbeck

If the law does not actually state that there must be a plebiscite, then the Conservatives have not broken any laws at all. Just another activist judge making a ruling based on what they WISH the laws were.

[Shwa]

Looks like Ritz may be right afterall:

CWB ruling will be overturned

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2011/12/07/cwb-ruling-will-be-overturned-brodbeck

If the law does not actually state that there must be a plebiscite, then the Conservatives have not broken any laws at all. Just another activist judge making a ruling based on what they WISH the laws were.

Is the bill being introduced under the existing monopoly and, if so, does that bill exclude "any kind, type, class or grade of wheat or barley, or wheat or barley produced in any area in Canada" from the monopoly?

[cybercoma]

Essentially removing everything from the scheme, which requires a vote from the farmers.

[Bryan]

Essentially removing everything from the scheme, which requires a vote from the farmers.

No, removing which products are covered by the scheme requires a vote. It says nothing about requiring a vote to let people opt out.

[Shwa]

No, removing which products are covered by the scheme requires a vote. It says nothing about requiring a vote to let people opt out.

Yes it does: "that would exclude any kind, type, class or grade of wheat or barley, or wheat or barley produced in any area in Canada."

People can opt out whenever they want, they just can't sell their wheat or barely outside of the monopoly.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Shwa

[olp1fan]

There was a vote held by the CWB itself though. More than one farmer said he wanted the right to market his own grain. Now they'll have the right. The same rights that famers of other grains already have. The same rights that wheat farmers have in the east.

Personally, I can't believe that these communist boards were ever allowed to exist in the first place. A cooperative that they all can join is great, but that they HAVE TO sell to? Are you freaking kidding me? Where do we live, North Korea?

yes there was a vote and a majority voted to keep it

[Bryan]

People can opt out whenever they want, they just can't sell their wheat or barely outside of the monopoly.

The new law says they can.

[Bryan]

yes there was a vote and a majority voted to keep it

And that majority can keep it if they want it.

[Shwa]

The new law says they can.

And, rightly so, it will be challenged in court. The clause you cited isn't the result of some activist judge's rant, it is because it is an unclear clause.

[Evening Star]

There was a vote held by the CWB itself though. More than one farmer said he wanted the right to market his own grain. Now they'll have the right. The same rights that famers of other grains already have. The same rights that wheat farmers have in the east.

I don't know much about the wheat board or agricultural issues, generally. I am actually curious why only wheat and barley farmers in AB, SK, MB, and part of BC are required to sell to the wheat board. If it's a national institution, why does it not apply to farmers in the rest of the country? And why only those grains?

[olp1fan]

And that majority can keep it if they want it.

if they can keep it why is the government scrapping it?

don't lie

[Evening Star]

if they can keep it why is the government scrapping it?

don't lie

Tbf, what the government wants to scrap is the requirement to sell to the wheat board. They want the board to remain as an option if I'm not mistaken.

[olp1fan]

Tbf, what the government wants to scrap is the requirement to sell to the wheat board. They want the board to remain as an option if I'm not mistaken.

I have been following this for months and not once have I seen them mention the board can remain an option

I'd like to see proof of this before I believe it

[Bryan]

I have been following this for months and not once have I seen them mention the board can remain an option

I'd like to see proof of this before I believe it

You're been watching CBC, who (as usual) have been blatantly lying about what the government has said or done.

Shutting down the CWB has never been part of the plan. Read it for yourself, it even outlines the specifics of how the board would go forward after the interim period when farmers may or may not be opting out. The act is entirely about offering more choices for farmers, it has nothing to do with taking anything away. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a liar.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&DocId=5285088&File=57

4. (1) The Canadian Wheat Board continued by subsection 3(1) of the Canadian Wheat Board Act is continued as a corporation.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Bryan

[olp1fan]

Okay but the majority still want it to stay the same as it has been for decades

why are you okay for going against the majorities wishes?

[Topaz]

I've listened to the Parliament debates on this and the committee hearings and what I've heard is there a lot of conflict of interest in Parliament. The minister , himself, family will benefit from the Tory bill, plus there are other members within the Tory caucus, who have passed down their farms to this kids. It has also been said that the younger farmers don't want the CWB and want to go out on their own. No one is going to come out winner on this. The minister its a matter of choice but if the younger farmer's get more open doors to selling their products from the grain buyers and avoid the CWB, then those farmer's are doomed and will be forced to shut down the wheat board and/or grow something else besides wheat.

[blueblood]

I've listened to the Parliament debates on this and the committee hearings and what I've heard is there a lot of conflict of interest in Parliament. The minister , himself, family will benefit from the Tory bill, plus there are other members within the Tory caucus, who have passed down their farms to this kids. It has also been said that the younger farmers don't want the CWB and want to go out on their own. No one is going to come out winner on this. The minister its a matter of choice but if the younger farmer's get more open doors to selling their products from the grain buyers and avoid the CWB, then those farmer's are doomed and will be forced to shut down the wheat board and/or grow something else besides wheat.

Oh my f***** god are people ignorant about this issue. This is beyond frustrating. Go back to the first few pages in he thread where I made it crystal clear what the issue is and a synopsis of the grain industry. You don't even make sense. How would the minister's kids magically benefit while other young farmers wouldn't?

Every farmer on the prairies grows other crops other than wheat/barley. Wheat and barley makes up a part of what every farmer grows. The younger farmers want the board gone as they see the better returns that non board grains gives them, it's the old ignorant farmers who couldn't manage a hamburger stand that want the board around, that and old ignorant landlords who still have the 1940's corporate tinfoil hat on. The sooner those fools go belly up the better off the grain industry will be. The only people doomed by the loss of the cwb monopoly are people who are too stupid to market their grain and they shouldn't have been farmers in the first place.

Ever wonder why there is more canola grown out west than wheat and why there isn't a demand for a canola marketing board?

Edited December 8, 2011 by blueblood

[punked]

Oh my f***** god are people ignorant about this issue. This is beyond frustrating. Go back to the first few pages in he thread where I made it crystal clear what the issue is and a synopsis of the grain industry. You don't even make sense. How would the minister's kids magically benefit while other young farmers wouldn't?

Every farmer on the prairies grows other crops other than wheat/barley. Wheat and barley makes up a part of what every farmer grows. The younger farmers want the board gone as they see the better returns that non board grains gives them, it's the old ignorant farmers who couldn't manage a hamburger stand that want the board around, that and old ignorant landlords who still have the 1940's corporate tinfoil hat on. The sooner those fools go belly up the better off the grain industry will be. The only people doomed by the loss of the cwb monopoly are people who are too stupid to market their grain and they shouldn't have been farmers in the first place.

Ever wonder why there is more canola grown out west than wheat and why there isn't a demand for a canola marketing board?

Interesting fact about Canola, it was created by a GOVERNMENT funded board to have something in the west that could be sold after the war. Small government types like yourself blueblood should really hate Canola because it was a wasteful government program that made it a marketable crop.

[Scotty]

And that majority can keep it if they want it.

No one has yet explained how it is possible for any law in Canada to be sacrosanct - other than the constitution. Because as far as I understand it any new law can do away with whatever came before it - other than the constitution, which specifically says no other law is superior. The entire basis for parliament is that whatever parliament says, that goes - other than what the constitution says.

[punked]

No one has yet explained how it is possible for any law in Canada to be sacrosanct - other than the constitution. Because as far as I understand it any new law can do away with whatever came before it - other than the constitution, which specifically says no other law is superior. The entire basis for parliament is that whatever parliament says, that goes - other than what the constitution says.

I believe and I could be wrong but don't some laws need 2/3rd majority to be over ruled by a new law? That might just be a US thing not sure.

[blueblood]

Interesting fact about Canola, it was created by a GOVERNMENT funded board to have something in the west that could be sold after the war. Small government types like yourself blueblood should really hate Canola because it was a wasteful government program that made it a marketable crop.

I've already been through this with you about canola. Are you still suggesting to me that a wheat board co-op still dictates canola growing in western Canada? If it wasn't for private investment that's all canola would be is a govt expenditure out of ag Canada's research budget like many other ings they research. It was private industry that made it possible to be grown on a large scale.

[Bryan]

Okay but the majority still want it to stay the same as it has been for decades

why are you okay for going against the majorities wishes?

When it comes to peoples' livelihoods, I sure am. Majorities are for political offices, not making decisions about who can do what job.

It's not a true majority in the country anyway, since no one who farms other grains, and no farmer in the east has to use the CWB.

[olp1fan]

When it comes to peoples' livelihoods, I sure am. Majorities are for political offices, not making decisions about who can do what job.

It's not a true majority in the country anyway, since no one who farms other grains, and no farmer in the east has to use the CWB.

Majority of wheat farmers which is the only thing that matters

[blueblood]

Majority of wheat farmers which is the only thing that matters

With a rigged vote by the cwb. Do you know what the results of the barley plebiscite was brought forth by the Tories? Marketing choice.

No farmer in his right mind exclusively grows wheat.