Shipbuilding contracts

[Derek 2.0]

That's the opportunity, but also the big challenge given Canada's procurement history.

Canada likes HUGE cancellation fees instead of finishing the job.

Oh it would never happen of course

[Smallc]

Is said "expert" well versed in magic?

You have to make up your mind. Either Irving has no leg to stand on and an expert will be able to prove that, or it will require magic to prove it, and they do have a leg to stand on.

[Derek 2.0]

You have to make up your mind. Either Irving has no leg to stand on and an expert will be able to prove that, or it will require magic to prove it, and they do have a leg to stand on.

No, you have to deduce how said expert will resolve said problem.

[Smallc]

No, you have to deduce how said expert will resolve said problem.

Said expert brings the clear ability to determine what we should be willing to pay for each possible level of what we want.

We've been through this more than once.

[Derek 2.0]

Said expert brings the clear ability to determine what we should be willing to pay for each possible level of what we want.

We've been through this more than once.

You're suggesting some single "expert" will decide the outcome of the RCN? Who is said expert? Will their be a confirmation process? Will there be a vote in the House?

[Smallc]

You're suggesting some single "expert" will decide the outcome of the RCN?

The expert will not determine the capabilities. Their area is shipbuilding and nothing else.

[Smallc]

“All of the numbers were for building the ships. They didn’t include inflation, So you’re talking eight years. It didn’t include equipment that would go on the vessels. It didn’t include a lot of things that would normally be taken into account.”

http://ipolitics.ca/2015/12/11/government-may-tap-a-non-canadian-for-shipbuilding-program/

Edited December 17, 2015 by Smallc

[Derek 2.0]

The expert will not determine the capabilities. Their area is shipbuilding and nothing else.

Source?

[Derek 2.0]

“All of the numbers were for building the ships. They didn’t include inflation, So you’re talking eight years. It didn’t include equipment that would go on the vessels. It didn’t include a lot of things that would normally be taken into account.”

http://ipolitics.ca/2015/12/11/government-may-tap-a-non-canadian-for-shipbuilding-program/

Thanks for confirming my point.........Irving doesn't build maritime gas turbines, sonars, radars, weapons etc.........who knew?

[Smallc]

Source?

“We would prefer (a Canadian) obviously but we also want to get the expertise. We want to be able to have, within the department, an individual who understands the building of combat ships.”

“We’re in the process of searching out and finding that individual. We will go wherever we have to go but obviously we’ll go where people are used to building warships so we get that expertise in the department.”

The problem, said Foote, is that Canada has had a boom and bust cycle of shipbuilding in recent years, which means that the government doesn’t have the expertise necessary to properly oversee the program launched by former Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s government.

“We’re…going to hire within the department someone with expertise and experience in building warships,” Foote explained.

http://ipolitics.ca/2015/12/11/government-may-tap-a-non-canadian-for-shipbuilding-program/

[Smallc]

Thanks for confirming my point.........Irving doesn't build maritime gas turbines, sonars, radars, weapons etc.........who knew?

There was really no budget for such things. That was the problem. The last government was in over its head.

[Smallc]

Equipment is normally part of the procurement portion of the budget. That's the point. It should have been included.

[bush_cheney2004]

“We would prefer (a Canadian) obviously but we also want to get the expertise. We want to be able to have, within the department, an individual who understands the building of combat ships.”

Are they kidding ? Canada has forgotten how to build a warship ? OMG !

[Smallc]

The government provides money (higher than budgeted - increased costs cited) for long lead items for the OOSV and JSS.

http://ipolitics.ca/2016/03/14/foote-announces-65-4m-in-new-shipbuilding-contracts/

[Argus]

The senate defense committee looking into the details of the Arctic Patrol ship seems slightly underimpressed.

“This (concern) is based on the fact that that these ships cannot operate in ice more than a metre thick, are slower than a BC Ferry, can only operate in the arctic from June to October and will require a coast guard escort when in the northern waters. These capabilities should be independently reviewed to meet Canada’s sovereignty needs.

The Senate also noted that the ships “will lack significant force projection in the form of weapons system.” “These limitations are troubling and raise the question of whether the taxpayers are receiving value for the monies spent,” the Senate report noted.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/canadas-new-arctic-ships-limited-capability-and-slower-than-a-bc-ferry-say-senators

Edited May 10, 2017 by Argus

[Argus]

The $26 billion surface combatant cost is now pegged at $62 billion. Hey, don't think of it as a big mistake in the estimate so much as a simple transposing of numbers. The new estimate is $4.1 BILLION per ship for new frigates. For comparison purposes, the US Arleigh Burke class guided missile destroyers which are much bigger and more capable, cost about $1.8 billion ($2.43 billion Can).

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/cost-of-canadian-surface-combatant-put-at-more-than-61-billion-pbo-study

[Army Guy]

On 5/10/2017 at 11:57 AM, Argus said:

The senate defense committee looking into the details of the Arctic Patrol ship seems slightly underimpressed.

“This (concern) is based on the fact that that these ships cannot operate in ice more than a metre thick, are slower than a BC Ferry, can only operate in the arctic from June to October and will require a coast guard escort when in the northern waters. These capabilities should be independently reviewed to meet Canada’s sovereignty needs.

The Senate also noted that the ships “will lack significant force projection in the form of weapons system.” “These limitations are troubling and raise the question of whether the taxpayers are receiving value for the monies spent,” the Senate report noted.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/canadas-new-arctic-ships-limited-capability-and-slower-than-a-bc-ferry-say-senators

Choosing equipment for the military seems to be a sport in Canada, everyone with a chair or couch is suddenly experts in the field,and know exactly what is best for our defense shit  we don't need a CDS with all that experience or knowledge........, what we need is a senator, or liberal politician to run our military, pick out what is right equipment for our men and women, i mean ....oh wait that is what happens today.....and yet we have not learned our lessons, kind of like sending our daughters down to the hardware store to purchase power tools for dad....and now the senators are getting in on the plan, and want a piece of the pie.....Who are these senators anyways, wait child molsters, media personalities, crooks, some other losers and all of them are now qualified as military tacticians, military equipment experts, and experts at the defense of this very country......It's like some magic wand once your elected they touch you on the shoulder and poof you know everything about everything....

The military is full of political purchased equipment that has been disasters,  equipment that sometimes were not even up to the specs the military wanted , so the military was ordered to change the specs, or nothing was done, the government just went ahead with the contract acting as if nothing was wrong, only to have the military spend millions on modifying them so they could atleast be used by the military.....

Now there is talk about bils of new funding heading the militaries ways , that will be wasted on other considerations.....a good example of that is the ship building program, a 27 bil program suddenly jumped to over 60 bil, so they can be built in Canada to save a dying industry, create a few jobs, and line the pockets of the irvings....at x4 to 6  times the price we could build them any where else in the world.....including US shipyards.....But hey it's all about macro economics and feeding the machine....screw everything else....like quality, quantity, and expertise in building Naval war ships....

[Army Guy]

Argus, I'm sorry i re read my post and it reads like i have a problem with your opinion.....Not true, .......in fact your one of the posters on here that understands the military and their needs..... i do however have a problem with the senates, and the liberals whom seem to have become experts on what the CF needs.....despite the opinion of the military brass who have lobby for different equipment for good reason....

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Argus, I'm sorry i re read my post and it reads like i have a problem with your opinion.....Not true, .......in fact your one of the posters on here that understands the military and their needs..... i do however have a problem with the senates, and the liberals whom seem to have become experts on what the CF needs.....despite the opinion of the military brass who have lobby for different equipment for good reason....

I didn't take offense, but I do think you need to remember that it's not the Senate questioning what the military brass say they want. It's the senate questioning what the government told the military brass to say they want. Do you really think the navy brass wants these frigates at $4.1 billion a pop when they could get American built guided missile destroyers for $2.43b? Do you really think the navy would prefer expensive, virtually unarmed navy coastal patrol ships which are slower than the BC ferry if they had a choice?

I don't trust a thing the military brass says because they're just puppets with the government's hand up their ass.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Argus