Obamacare Begins to Crumble

[punked]

Complete nonsense. Obama had record majorities in congress for 2 years. The Republicans had no power to stop him. He had trouble passing things because some Democrats also didn't want to go along with his terrible ideas.

What was so obviously good for the people? Obamacare? It's a disaster for the people. And what about all of the money Obama received from insurance companies? More than Republicans. Where's your investigation for that?

That is some great spin Shady. Just great spin.

[bush_cheney2004]

Any law that gets rid of universal health care in Canada would break s. 7 of the Charter.

Non starter....the Charter applies to all persons in Canada, but universal health care does not.

[cybercoma]

Not surprising American Woman and bush_cheney have no idea how the Charter works. You've already demonstrated your ignorance thoroughly in the Insite discussion. To make it really simple for you, any legislation that has an arbitrary and disproportionate affect on the lives of people (eliminating universal healthcare would cause those that can't afford insurance to suffer disproportionately from those that have enough money to pay for care themselves) would violate s. 7 which states:

7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.

There is no fundamental justice in depriving people of the universal single-payer system that we already have. This point is moot anyway, since there is no such thing as the Canadian Healthcare System. It's within the jurisdiction of the provinces.

[Shady]

That is some great spin Shady. Just great spin.

What's the spin? Did he have majorities in both houses of congress? Yup. Did he lose Democrats who chose not to vote for the plan? Yup. Did Obama receive more money from insurance companies than Republicans, just like he received more money from Wall Street than Republicans? Yup.

Seems to my so-called spin, is reality.

[Shady]

I'd be investigating them for investments/kickbacks/cosy relationships with insurance providers

Oh, and one more thing. So you wanna investigate Republicans for opposing a plan that mandates everyone purchase a private service from a private insurance company. Yet Obama, that pushed for, and signed into law a plan that mandates everyone purchase a private service from these private insurance companies needs no investigation?

I think you have it backwards.

[Guest American Woman]

Not surprising American Woman and bush_cheney have no idea how the Charter works.

Which could be why I asked you to explain how it would be against the Charter ... ya think?

You've already demonstrated your ignorance thoroughly in the Insite discussion.

I'm in good "ignorant" company- including the Parliament of Canada and Health Canada.

To make it really simple for you, any legislation that has an arbitrary and disproportionate affect on the lives of people (eliminating universal healthcare would cause those that can't afford insurance to suffer disproportionately from those that have enough money to pay for care themselves) would violate s. 7 which states: There is no fundamental justice in depriving people of the universal single-payer system that we already have.

Could you highlight the part of the Charter that specifies healthcare? And while you're at it, who are these "people" that the Charter refers to? Only citizens? Non-citizens too?

This point is moot anyway, since there is no such thing as the Canadian Healthcare System. It's within the jurisdiction of the provinces.

Of course there's such a thing as Canada's health Care system.

[blueblood]

Seems to me Obama's efforts are defeated because the Repubs care more about politics than people. I'd be investigating them for investments/kickbacks/cosy relationships with insurance providers that might be their (corrupt) reasons for opposing something so obviously good for people.

Reinforces my view that two party systems are useless because 50-50 divisions are stalemate.

We accomplish more with a three party system - like health care - because sometimes parties have to collaborate, cooperate and compromise. When more perspectives are incorporated into legislation it is stronger and better law.

With proportionate representation we'd have even more perspectives represented in parliament and much better quality legislation that isn't constrained by particular political ideology.

We should never forget that our governance system was designed ...

- to appear to 'represent' the many while preserving the power of a few, and

- to divide the people into warring factions to keep the people weak, divided and firmly under the thumbs of wealth and power.

Our healthcare is unsustainable and there are calls for reform before the crap hits the fan. Seems practical to me.

The americans elected republicans in 2010 and in great numbers. The american elecorate gave them marching orders to put the brakes on the democrat spending spree, and the republicans are doing exactly what they campaigned on. Its refreshing to see politicians keep their promises. And what's even better some of those republicans don't care if they get re-elected, just as long as their mission gets done. The americans got exactly the govt they voted for and have only themselves to blame for electing a divided govt.

[bush_cheney2004]

.... This point is moot anyway, since there is no such thing as the Canadian Healthcare System. It's within the jurisdiction of the provinces.

Correct...there is no such constitutional health care right for Canadians or non-Canadian residents.

[Topaz]

I was listening to this guy on this program and he said that he hopes that the Republicans win the election in 2012 because who ever gets in, will lose in 2016 because the things are going to get worse for the US between 2012-16. He also said the Euro is on its way out and that the US will go into a default and no country can help the US, the debt is too large. So we'll see how right this guy is but he's been right 90% of the time.

[jbg]

Complete nonsense. Obama had record majorities in congress for 2 years. The Republicans had no power to stop him. He had trouble passing things because some Democrats also didn't want to go along with his terrible ideas.

The point I make that's never answered is that Obamacare was really income redistribution. Since the "free" health care to be forced on the poor and lower middle class had to be paid for somewhere, the choices were to take from the "rich" (really upper middle class) or reduce doctors' incomes further. The latter isn't working out too well already. We have many Canadian-trained doctors here. And as for doctors here now,many are struggling.

[bush_cheney2004]

The point I make that's never answered is that Obamacare was really income redistribution....

This may be President Obama's 2012 undoing, not so much because of income redistribution, but because of the time and political capital he expended on healthcare goals instead of the economy and other fiscal matters.

[blueblood]

This may be President Obama's 2012 undoing, not so much because of income redistribution, but because of the time and political capital he expended on healthcare goals instead of the economy and other fiscal matters.

It already was his undoing, the midterm elections showed that. The voters gave the freshmen republicans marching orders, and they are following them to the letter.

Edited October 16, 2011 by blueblood

[punked]

It already was his undoing, the midterm elections showed that. The voters gave the freshmen republicans marching orders, and they are following them to the letter.

Followed them so close to the letter they became the most unpopular congress ever! Yep suuurrrreeee.

[blueblood]

Followed them so close to the letter they became the most unpopular congress ever! Yep suuurrrreeee.

Congress is unpopular because nothing is getting done. The irony is that the republicans are doing exactly what they campaigned on, and that was stop the democrats. Unfortunately for the voting public that also means stopping everything, hence the poll numbers. Remember that the Senate is also part of congress, and who has the most seats there???