So Gilad Shalit is being returned to Israel.

[GostHacked]

Some of them will become political/terrorist leaders. Most of them will do well for themselves and likely end up on the Hamas payroll, which effectively means their lives will be subsidized by America, Canada, Europe, Australia, and some other countries.

How much aid does Israel get from those same countries? If we cut aid to them, cut aid across the board.

[DogOnPorch]

How much aid does Israel get from those same countries? If we cut aid to them, cut aid across the board.

Right after you throw away all your Israeli designed high technology.

[DogOnPorch]

Oh...and Israel gets zero 'aid' from any of those countries. The US does supply Israel with military funding which provides dividends many fold. It's not 'aid' when both parties profit.

[Rue]

The Israeli government must weigh the very heavy cost of paying for this hostage against the benefit of gaining his freedom.

The benefit? Every Israeli mother knows that the Israeli government will negotiate her son's freedom. Israel will stand by her sons.

=====

I fear that we in the West will soon have to make such decisions. And I wonder whether we can decide as well as the Jews.

At this point, we're all Jewish.

At this point I believe you got the point.

[Rue]

Pretty disgusting scene in Gaza today as thousands treat murderers as heros. I doubt Hamas has any plans for keeping them away from 'normal' society by...you know...locking them up for their crimes. So, free as birds. If I was a Hamas terrorist, I'd be thinking that kidnapping and terror works!

Yes true. But there is also another not so subtle message and that is Israel does not fear Hamas. Its not missed on Hamas. After all the posturing and smiling and cheearing and the propoganda dies down, the message is Israel thinks so little of Hamas it considers them 1,300th (or whatever the total no. in the exchange was) the value of one Israeli. That message is not missed.

That may appear to some to be a sign of weakness but its anything but.

Look at the message. Hamas tells its terrorists they are expendable for the cause and life of all Palestinians is expendable for the cause-Israel says the exact opposite.

In the short term people giggle on the streets in Gaza but in the long term a subconscious message has been delivered to them-their leaders do not value them as individual lives.

You can only deliver that message so long and people turn on you and that is exactly what has happened elsewhere in the Middle East.

For those who go on and on about how evil Zionist Israel is, say now, do tell me who just sent out the message that Palestinian terrorists are so worthless, 1,300 of them equate to one Israeli? It was Hamas. Hamas could have said, one of our people is the exact value of an Israeli-they chose instead to devalue their worth by insisting on 1,300 for 1.

In the short term it buys them some giggles in the long term? You think the average Palestinian didn't and doesn't understand they are expendable meaningless numbers to Hamas?

After the relatives hug and kiss, and the terrorists go home to dinner and the message then sinks in psychologically then what? What do you think these aged terrorists do?

How many will pick up where they left off?

You think Samir Kuntar is not afraid of his own shadow. After his release do you not think everyday he thinks he sees a Zionist under his bed each night and in the shadows?

The psychology of this war has only begun.

[Bob]

Not sure if you folks saw it, but Tony Blair made a few brief comments about these recent developments. His statements boiled down to one thing - that hopefully, this recent hostage-release agreement might be conducive to a change in atmosphere, which constitutes some sort of opportunity not to be lost. The eternal optimist (or spin-doctor), Blair seems unable (or unwilling) to face the truth - that this recent hostage-release agreement reveals exactly the opposite: that the gaps between Israel and the Arabs/Muslims are unbridgeable, and that this conflict is irreconcilable. As I mentioned above, we're given yet another example of the dominant culture of the "Palestinians", which is the celebration of mass murder, and the rejection of Jewish national rights in Israel.

Basically, anyone trying to characterize these recent developments as some sort of window of opportunity for the "peace process" is either stupid or lying.

[Bob]

Freed would-be suicide bomber tells kids to be like her

Just a few excerpts from the article illustrating the beautiful culture of the "Palestinians":

"I hope you will walk the same path we took and God willing, we will see some of you as martyrs," Wafa al-Biss told dozens of children who came to her home in the northern Gaza Strip.

After she spoke, the children cheered and waved Palestinian flags and chanted: "We will give souls and blood to redeem the prisoners. We will give souls and blood for you, Palestine."

"Unfortunately, the button did not work at the last minute before I was to be martyred," Biss told Reuters

[GostHacked]

Right after you throw away all your Israeli designed high technology.

Not problem there. If their stuff is that good, they would not need aid to help make and sell those products right? We could use the money at home more than sending any other country aid.

[bud]

while bob, the "Far-Right-Wing Ultra-Nationalist Extemist" who promotes ethnic cleansing is in overdrive with the typical lies, spins and propaganda, here are some facts to consider in regards to israel and its treatment of palestinian prisoners:

Held without trial – Administrative Detention

At least half of prisoners are never given a trial. Israeli military commanders can detain an individual for up to six months without charge or trial. On or just before the expiry date, the detention order is frequently renewed. This process can be continued indefinitely. Administrative detention is often used against Palestinian writers, advocates or community organizers who are difficult to charge in military court. Administrative detention orders are issued either at the time of arrest or at some later date and are often based on secret evidence. Neither the detainee, nor the detainee’s lawyers are given access to the secret evidence. There are currently 221 Palestinians in administrative detention, including 20 elected parliamentarians of the Palestinian Legislative Council.

Child prisoners

There are no juvenile prisons for Palestinians, and children often serve their sentences in the same cells as adults. More than 6,000 Palestinian children have been detained since 2000, and there were 209 Palestinian prisoners under 18 as of January 2011 -- 29 under the age of 16.

In March 2011, the Palestinian Ministry of Detainee Affairs published a new report documenting the torture of children as young as seven in Israeli prisons. Between January and March of 2011, Israeli soldiers abducted 150 children and all of them were interrogated during the course of their imprisonment – with many subjected to hitting, psychological abuse and other violence or threat of violence without a parent or adult representative present.

Women prisoners

An estimated 10,000 Palestinian women have been arrested and detained by the Israeli military since 1967, including 34 currently according to the July 2010 update from the Women’s Organization for Political Prisoners (the latest numbers available). The Addameer Prisoners’ Support and Human Rights Association reports that Palestinian women prisoners are subjected to severe abuse during interrogation, including various forms of torture, denial of medical treatment and threats of sexual abuse and rape.

Longterm prisoners

At the other end of the spectrum are older prisoners, 143 of whom have served terms of more than 20 years. Palestinian Fakhri Barghouthi, for example, is the world’s record-holder. The 54-year-old Barghouthi, originally from Ramallah, has been in custody for 3r years, after being detained on 4 April 1978 at the age of 21 for a suspected bombing. He has been in prison 12 years longer than he was free, and continues to be denied visits by his sister. Another is Akram Mansour, who has been jailed for 33 years and is quite ill with cancer.

Edited October 19, 2011 by bud

[Bob]

Not problem there. If their stuff is that good, they would not need aid to help make and sell those products right? We could use the money at home more than sending any other country aid.

In case you hadn't yet realized it, there are reasons why nobody takes you seriously. The most recent example are your posts in this thread, where you actually think that many countries give foreign aid to Israel. Only America gives foreign aid to Israel, while much of the Western world gives foreign aid to the "Palestinians", whose economy is at least 50% based on foreign aid in the West Bank, while almost entirely composed of foreign aid in Gaza.

I mean, when you don't even know that America is Israel's only financial benefactor, and talk about "we" as if Canada is giving Israel foreign aid, it's kinda hard to respect your statements on these issues given your massive ignorance of the basics.

Apparently you still think Israel has a presence in Gaza, as well?

[GostHacked]

In case you hadn't yet realized it, there are reasons why nobody takes you seriously.

Well the posters that have a history of certain things don't take me seriously, because they are simply uneducated ignorant trolls who want to pad their post count by ridiculing things I say. You fall into that group. You are definitely not taken seriously here at all either, because that is a really scary thing if you are a true representative and an example of an Israeli or a Jew for that matter.

The most recent example are your posts in this thread, where you actually think that many countries give foreign aid to Israel.

You make it sound like half the world is giving aid to Israel. Sure the USA might be the largest provider of aid to Israel, but I doubt it's the only one. But if you want to school me on it, I'll get back to the desk from the corner and take my dunce cap off.

Only America gives foreign aid to Israel,

You may be right, but I am sure Canada gives them aid as well. I am not above admitting I am wrong when I am. How about you Bob?

while much of the Western world gives foreign aid to the "Palestinians", whose economy is at least 50% based on foreign aid in the West Bank, while almost entirely composed of foreign aid in Gaza.

An occupation and an embargo on certain materials might exacerbate that situation. No?

I mean, when you don't even know that America is Israel's only financial benefactor, and talk about "we" as if Canada is giving Israel foreign aid, it's kinda hard to respect your statements on these issues given your massive ignorance of the basics.

I am not looking for respect. I am ignorant of a lot of things I'll admit that.

Apparently you still think Israel has a presence in Gaza, as well?

Wow we went over this many times, and I have been corrected on it. But hamming on this does not make me look like the idiot.

[Rick]

So Bob...how does it feel to bow down to your masters... the Palestinians who now have the entire world laughing at Israel's capitulation to their demands.

[DogOnPorch]

Not problem there. If their stuff is that good, they would not need aid to help make and sell those products right? We could use the money at home more than sending any other country aid.

Canada doesn't send aid to Israel. It's a first world country and quite well-off with high standards of living. We do have trade agreements. That isn't aid. If you're unaware of Israel's contribution to the world of computing...well...too bad, I guess. You can continue thinking that technology come from the Technology Fairy.

[DogOnPorch]

Apparently you still think Israel has a presence in Gaza, as well?

Careful...making fun of GH's lack of historical knowledge can get you 30 days in the cooler.

[DogOnPorch]

So Bob...how does it feel to bow down to your masters... the Palestinians who now have the entire world laughing at Israel's capitulation to their demands.

Well...you're laughing. Mosty of us feel sickened that mass murderers are being given a big ass party.

[bud]

Well...you're laughing. Mosty of us feel sickened that mass murderers are being given a big ass party.

2 things about another one of your simpleton comments:

#1 - a small percentage of those who have been freed have been charged for 'murder'. your blanket statement is stupid.

#2 - those who you consider murderers are considered heros and defenders of palestinians to the palestinians. much like the idf soldiers who have killed 1000 more times civilians, are considered heros and defenders of israel to many israelis and jews.

Edited October 20, 2011 by bud

[Bob]

Careful...making fun of GH's lack of historical knowledge can get you 30 days in the cooler.

He's just as sure that Canada and other countries send foreign aid to Israel as he is that there's an Israeli presence in Gaza. In all seriousness, it's not a problem if people are ignorant of facts about Israel. For example, if I played the Rick Mercer game known as "Talking to Americans", but instead walked around Canadian cities, I could easily reveal massive Canadian ignorance of America and the broader world. For example, I could go around Toronto and ask people, "Should Canada discontinue foreign aid to Israel in favour of countries that are much poorer and in much more desperate need?" I am certain a large portion, if not most, respondents would respond in the affirmative, as if Canada actually sends foreign aid to Israel. What is strange is that people like GostHacked, here on an internet forum, remains resolute and "sure" that Canada and other countries send foreign aid to Israel, and then asks us to prove otherwise. It's unreal.

[Bob]

Over half of the first portion of released prisoners were serving life sentences, and directly or indirectly responsible for murder.

Moreover, the drawing of a moral equivalence between Gilad Shalit and terrorists, although unsurprising, never ceases to be ridiculous. I guess the Taliban is now the moral counterpart of the Canadian soldier, in terms of objective and conduct.

[GostHacked]

Well...you're laughing. Mosty of us feel sickened that mass murderers are being given a big ass party.

Well the first mistake was these guys causing terror. The second and most idiotic mistake was letting these guys out of jail.

[GostHacked]

He's just as sure that Canada and other countries send foreign aid to Israel as he is that there's an Israeli presence in Gaza.

Again for the record, the Gaza bit has been cleared up, but waste more time on it please. I have admitted I was incorrect, but yes, please feel free to point that out.

In all seriousness, it's not a problem if people are ignorant of facts about Israel. For example, if I played the Rick Mercer game known as "Talking to Americans", but instead walked around Canadian cities, I could easily reveal massive Canadian ignorance of America and the broader world.

And you would. No arguments about that one bit.

For example, I could go around Toronto and ask people, "Should Canada discontinue foreign aid to Israel in favour of countries that are much poorer and in much more desperate need?"

Take your camera with you when you do. I'd love to see the results. I'll even post them on my youtube account for you!

I am certain a large portion, if not most, respondents would respond in the affirmative, as if Canada actually sends foreign aid to Israel. What is strange is that people like GostHacked, here on an internet forum, remains resolute and "sure" that Canada and other countries send foreign aid to Israel, and then asks us to prove otherwise. It's unreal.

If you are not willing to school me directly, please feel free to delete your account. Come on BOB , take me to school.

[DogOnPorch]

Well the first mistake was these guys causing terror. The second and most idiotic mistake was letting these guys out of jail.

Awwww....poor Ahmed accidentally blew up the crosstown bus. Let's give the grieving family a pile of money, declare victory and have a huge party.

What's next GH? Girls in tight clothes deserve what they get??

[kactus]

In case you hadn't yet realized it, there are reasons why nobody takes you seriously. The most recent example are your posts in this thread, where you actually think that many countries give foreign aid to Israel. Only America gives foreign aid to Israel, while much of the Western world gives foreign aid to the "Palestinians", whose economy is at least 50% based on foreign aid in the West Bank, while almost entirely composed of foreign aid in Gaza.

I mean, when you don't even know that America is Israel's only financial benefactor, and talk about "we" as if Canada is giving Israel foreign aid, it's kinda hard to respect your statements on these issues given your massive ignorance of the basics.

Apparently you still think Israel has a presence in Gaza, as well?

Only America gives foreign aid to Israel, while much of the Western world gives foreign aid to the "Palestinians", whose economy is at least 50% based on foreign aid in the West Bank, while almost entirely composed of foreign aid in Gaza.

Apparently you still think Israel has a presence in Gaza, as well?

So what that the western world is providing paletinians with foreign aid? Surely you are not suggesting that the "foreign aid" much of the western world provides the palestinians is a threat to Israel???

Reality is the US is providing Israel approx 3bil dollars of aid annually from tax payer's money. Some suggest this benefits the military industry others claim this aid helps Israel to facilitate their achievements in medical, science, etc. I like to think that this aid irrespective in whichever way or means is paid is entirely political and serves both the US interest as well as the survival of Israel...

[GostHacked]

Awwww....poor Ahmed accidentally blew up the crosstown bus. Let's give the grieving family a pile of money, declare victory and have a huge party.

What's next GH? Girls in tight clothes deserve what they get??

I guess you missed the part where I said the first mistake was causing terror (the people captured and jailed in Israel). But releasing 1000 people many convicted of terror, for one soldier is really... mind boggling.

I make no escuse for Ahmed or whoever blowing up a bus. But you should ask yourself, is Gilad worth 1000 terrorists? Is Gilad worth the security risk that comes with releasing 1000 criminals?

[Bonam]

I make no escuse for Ahmed or whoever blowing up a bus. But you should ask yourself, is Gilad worth 1000 terrorists? Is Gilad worth the security risk that comes with releasing 1000 criminals?

Israel has mandatory military service. It also has a well-educated population that largely would rather not serve in the military. Being seen to do everything possible to keep its soldiers safe and to obtain the release of captured soldiers is critical to Israel's ability to maintain military conscription without enduring civil unrest.

[GostHacked]

Israel has mandatory military service. It also has a well-educated population that largely would rather not serve in the military. Being seen to do everything possible to keep its soldiers safe and to obtain the release of captured soldiers is critical to Israel's ability to maintain military conscription without enduring civil unrest.

That makes sense to me. But it's a very huge risk in my view.