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Who Is WHO...the great and incremental shift.


Oleg Bach

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People in the street comment that the NDP is the new liberal party. And the liberals are actually the neo-conservatives. If that is the case I wonder who the federal Conservatives have morphed into? As the definition of conservative evolved...it seems clear that the reality of the game is - the new establishment that has taken up the position of the norm...are liberals...and traditional conservatism has been re-vamped to suit the times - So now we have a conservative government in Ontario - with a liberal opposition (NDP) and a very strong centralist majority government - that is actually quite liberal - or are they - maybe the people in Ottawa holding the power federally are not a party at all...Let me get another glass of wine - and I will continue.......

Oh and seeing that I am now a liberal conservative socialist..better fire up a smoke and enjoy my mortal existence to the max. Where was I - oh yes...............What party does Steven Harper belong to and lead? Certainly it is not the old school conservative party- and he is too good to be an NDP liberal...seeing that in the scheme of things - this group are of the slightly lower class....It has suddenly gotten evident that Harper belongs to the class and party that should be named the FREE BOOTERS....or the Privateer Party of Canada. An exclusive group that are granted licence by the crown of old to prey on the enemies of the state for profit - personal enrichment. Much like state sanctioned British pirates that used to prey on the French and Spanish.

Seeing there is no clear cut enemy - and the federal Privateer Party of Canada are a lazy bunch - why bother going out like the Americans and prey on other nations - why not just plunder your own nation...kind of like shooting fish in a barrel....I suggest that Canada get Americanized - build up a great fleet - build up the military in general and go out to plunder weaker nations with some natural wealth - that way - they would leave you and I alone - and could do buisness.....else where - operating a this type of enterprise within your own boarders is like sneaking into your brothers house and stealing cash out of his sock drawer.

The federal party....had better get off their asses and hoist those sails and steal from someone who is not family - stealing from family is easy - cos they are forgiving - as we saw in our latest provincial election. Family loves you- and the national family is very forgiving - but not forever.

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Wake me up in four years when the NDP have either retained its seat count or formed a government. Until then, I'm still thinking they're success is a bubble that may burst, and the Liberals will come out on top.

The liberals did come out on top - the NDP as we know it died with what's his name. As did the old liberal party - that died with the other what's his name..that iggy fellow.

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Wake me up in four years when the NDP have either retained its seat count or formed a government. Until then, I'm still thinking they're success is a bubble that may burst, and the Liberals will come out on top.

Well, I have heard people make the case that this shift has happened in terms of ideology/policy, especially when it comes to economics, regardless of electoral success or popularity: that the Liberals have moved over to the sorts of free trading, pro-private-sector policies that the PCs embraced in the 80s and that the NDP has moved closer to the sorts of stances that the Liberals took in the 70s and 80s. (In fact, the NDP may have possibly shifted to the right of the old Liberals. It's not like the NDP is advocating something like the NEP). That sort of shift happened prior to Layton's death or Ignatieff's resignation though. I'll admit that I don't really understand in what sense Oleg is talking about a shift.

I still think the Liberals may have a tough time regaining their status. I'll be fairly surprised if they regain many seats in Quebec, the Prairies, or Northern or rural Ontario, especially if they are led by a Trudeau. I could see them recapturing the GTA, Ottawa, or bits of Montreal perhaps. I'm not sure that's enough to sustain a serious contender at government.

Edited by Evening Star
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I'm sorry...

Did someone say The Who??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtqGqkWmsN0

Check out the Stone who announces and the late Stone applauding at the end!!!

Enjoy...

You mention the Who. I thought you were going to quote "the party on the Left is now parting on the Right".

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Well, I have heard people make the case that this shift has happened in terms of ideology/policy, especially when it comes to economics, regardless of electoral success or popularity: that the Liberals have moved over to the sorts of free trading, pro-private-sector policies that the PCs embraced in the 80s and that the NDP has moved closer to the sorts of stances that the Liberals took in the 70s and 80s (possibly right of those, actually - not like the NDP is advocating something like the NEP). That sort of shift happened prior to Layton's death or Ignatieff's resignation though. I'll admit that I don't really understand in what sense Oleg is talking about a shift.

I still think the Liberals may have a tough time regaining their status. I'll be fairly surprised if they regain many seats in Quebec, the Prairies, or Northern or rural Ontario, especially if they are led by a Trudeau. I could see them recapturing the GTA, Ottawa, or bits of Montreal perhaps. I'm not sure that's enough to sustain a serious contender at government.

Interesting..

I remember some talking head mentioning during the aftermath of the May election that it's quite possible that the NDP (Layton to be more specific) almost seemed to be in the process of recreating Pierre Trudeau's for "coalition" that gained him power...

I suppose it remains to be seen if that takes shape under a new NDP leader,because,I agree with you that the NDP seems to have moved off many hard left positions to become more palatable and electable.

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I remember some talking head mentioning during the aftermath of the May election that it's quite possible that the NDP (Layton to be more specific) almost seemed to be in the process of recreating Pierre Trudeau's for "coalition" that gained him power...

I suppose it remains to be seen if that takes shape under a new NDP leader,because,I agree with you that the NDP seems to have moved off many hard left positions to become more palatable and electable.

"Coalitions" the size of Trudeau's in 1968 and Mulroney's in 1984 tend be be hard to hold together and unwieldly. there are twoo many constituencies to please.

In this Internet age they may be tougher to assemble. It's harder to deliver one message in Beau Comeau and another in Calgary than "back in the days".

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Rob Russo was the talking head iirc. I don't think he was speaking specifically about 1968: PET managed to hold together enough of a coalition until 1984, right?

Yes...

Essentially taking the majority of seats in Quebec,doing well in The Maritimes,and,owning Ontario...

The old Trudeau ,"You can have the West,we'll take the rest"...

I'm not sure if this can happen to the NDP minus Layton,however,with the Liberal party seemingly in decline and the urban/rural split that is definately happening,it's definately not an implausable theory...

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Wake me up in four years when the NDP have either retained its seat count or formed a government. Until then, I'm still thinking they're success is a bubble that may burst, and the Liberals will come out on top.

One thing in the polls are showing, Canadians are starting to regret giving Harper a majority with his pro-business, anti-labour and anti-consumer reign.

Edited by MiddleClassCentrist
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  • 2 months later...
One thing in the polls are showing, Canadians <snip> giving Harper a majority with his pro-business, anti-labour and anti-consumer reign.
...*Chuckle* Yeah, whoulda guessed that Harper and the Conservatives were pro-business, anti-labour and anti-consumer!??!?
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...*Chuckle* Yeah, whoulda guessed that Harper and the Conservatives were pro-business, anti-labour and anti-consumer!??!?

And being anti-business is good for jobs? Ask Bob Rae, about Ontario 1991-5.

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And being anti-business is good for jobs? Ask Bob Rae, about Ontario 1991-5.

I hope that sometime soon, folks will realize that the role of government is to look after its citizens. WE have a private sector for business. Its not about being anti-business, its just learning to do its job that the government needs to work on. Let the private sector play in the markets, setup and run business for profit. I don't trust the government on a good day, let alone trusting my boss in the private sector for a heartbeat.

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One thing in the polls are showing, Canadians are starting to regret giving Harper a majority with his pro-business, anti-labour and anti-consumer reign.

Last poll I seen was 63% agreed with the way we are heading, harper is not changing the country, the country is changing by it's self and harper is the only man to lead it. We are lucky to have such a strong leader, a man that understands leadership.
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Last poll I seen was 63% agreed with the way we are heading, harper is not changing the country, the country is changing by it's self and harper is the only man to lead it. We are lucky to have such a strong leader, a man that understands leadership.

From what I can see as an American who knows little about Canada, Harper is a pragmatist who believes in and practices "peace, order and good government". He is not primarily an ideologue though he clearly has convictions.
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