Character Assassination of the Chief of the Defence Staff

Smallc · September 23, 2011

Again, we have CBC talking about selling the jets and renting private jets, again displaying a complete lack of understanding of the purpose of the jets.

It was kind of funny, but not. We have to take a break now, but we'll be back to talk about the world going to hell...or, and Skewering Peter Mackay too,

August1991 · September 23, 2011

What? That has nothing to do with the Government of Canada (other than the comparatively small amount that they send in transfers).
....

Actually, they are calculated. We don't have funds for them now, no, because we haven't collected them...

No, they are not calculated.

Canada's health insurance system is "pay as you go", like the US Social Security (pension) system.

In Canada, we have no fund to pay for future health costs. And in the US, they have no fund for future pension costs.

----

Smallc, between the US and Canada, who is being more unrealistic?

Argus · September 23, 2011

You've stated that people like Jean Chretien need to be flown around on private jets and then invoke his name to take a shot at him?

Oh wait...what you're saying is it's only acceptable if it's your kind...

Once again, this is about that foreign concept to you: judgement. Yes, Jean Chretien had to be flown by private jet. However, you can take anything to extremes, and he did so. His time in office was one long holiday, flying everywhere and anywhere, often with a second jet following the first just in case there was a breakdown. I think he set an all-time record for amount of time on 'official visits' to warm countries during the winter months.

Hypocrite.

For that assessment to be valid, it would have to come from someone mature enough and smart enough to understand what it means.

I'm thinking that's not the case here.

None of these pompous over rated politicians or waste of skin army jackboots need to be flown anywhere on a private jet paid for with taxpayers money for their personal benefits.

That's just a blindly dumb statement that appears based more on bitterness and resentment of someone being important and having an important job, as opposed to any valid assessment of the needs to fly on private jets.

Argus · September 23, 2011

Alas he doesn't because he's got gullible sheep like yourself who fawn over him and think he's entitled to his entitlements.

It has nothing to do with entitlements and everything to do with common sense, safety and efficiency.

But truth is, he's not important. He's only made important because the warmongering right wing and military lackeys want him to be.

He is important. He'd be important if he was running any organization with a hundred thousand employees that spent billions of dollars. Your rabble babble contempt for the military is colouring your already poor judgement.

Argus · September 23, 2011

I say we start by axing the bloated military's budget.

I say we don't. And guess what? I'm in charge! :lol:

But first and formost, stop allowing the waste of tax dollars so today's video game junkies get the chance to go play GI Joe in real life...

Troops should only be used in a combat mission when they are defending this country's borders.

Uhhm, yeah, sure. So what we'll do is we'll stop wasting tax dollars, and we'll wait until someone is 'on our border' then we'll, I guess, start recruiting soldiers, and maybe let out bids on new military equipment for them to use. A few years later, they'll be all set to 'defend this country's borders'!

Pure military genius!

Argus · September 23, 2011

You have any proof that he wasn't?

Wow. New lows for moronic arguments.

August1991 · September 23, 2011

It has nothing to do with entitlements and everything to do with common sense, safety and efficiency.
---

He is important. He'd be important if he was running any organization with a hundred thousand employees that spent billions of dollars. Your rabble babble contempt for the military is colouring your already poor judgement.

He is important?

Argus, "he is just some guy."

----

Argus, this "he is important" argument is tiresome. To be ironic, or 21st century, do young blonde chicks want to sleep with him? If not, he's not important.

Edited September 23, 2011 by August1991

Argus · September 23, 2011

The simple fact is that ordinary people, in this 21st century, will no longer pay for this nonsense.

Ordinary people have more important things to worry about.

Politicians in democracies are beginning to understand this. Obama, for example, financed his campaign differently.

Oh, do tell! I was under the belief he financed his campaign like everyone else - through selling his influence to a number of wealthy individuals, corporations and lobby groups.

Smallc · September 23, 2011

Smallc, between the US and Canada, who is being more unrealistic?

Considering their feral debt is 100% of GDP and their budget deficit is about 10% of GDP, definitely them...of course, Canadians themselves are taking on far more debt than they should.

August1991 · September 23, 2011

Argus, we in Canada will face the same problems as people in Greece face now.

However you change the subject, it seems to me inevitable.

Smallc · September 23, 2011

He is important?

Yes

Argus, "he is just some guy."

No.

Argus, this "he is important" argument is tiresome. To be ironic, or 21st century, do young blonde chicks want to sleep with him? If not, he's not important.

It's becoming more and more clear that you have no idea what you're talking about.

August1991 · September 23, 2011

It's becoming more and more clear that you have no idea what you're talking about.

[irony]Smallc, you are right. I have no idea of anything.

[irony]Federal government bureaucrats can spend money with abandon. There is no problem. They can do this far into the future without any problem.

----

Smallc, I am a federalist. I believe that Canada is better served with small government. I believe in firewalls.

Edited September 23, 2011 by August1991

Smallc · September 23, 2011

Federal government bureaucrats can spend money with abandon. There is no problem. They can do this far into the future without any problem.

See, this is part of what you don't get. He isn't just some federal bureaucrat.

g_bambino · September 23, 2011

It's becoming more and more clear that you have no idea what you're talking about.

That became evident some time ago; back when he lumped the CDS, the governor general, and the Queen in under the banner "minor government/State officials".

August1991 · September 24, 2011

That became evident some time ago; back when he lumped the CDS, the governor general, and the Queen in under the banner "minor government/State officials".

But they are. They live on my back, and yet they supposedly serve me.

If Bill Gates/Rod Stewart has the money to avoid security and make planes wait, fine. But IMV, too many minor government/State officials (the GG/Queen/Parliamentary Secretaries/Canada's CDS) have usurped this importance.
They, and their families, use my debit cards and my credit cards to pay their private flights, first class air tickets and five star hotels.

I am a democrat, but I want no more of this 21st century form of democratic government.

Bambino, this cannot continue. These "minor government/State officials" are spending too much of my money. Unless this changes soon, the end will not be good.

Edited September 24, 2011 by August1991

Smallc · September 24, 2011

They are; they live on my back, they serve me.

They live on your back? No wonder you have such a problem with them.

Bambino, this cannot continue. These "minor government/State officials" are spending too much.

You seem to have this thing, where if you say something over and over again, you think that it's true. It isn't. The Chief of the Defence Staff is not a minor official, and no matter how many times you say it, it doesn't make it so.

August1991 · September 24, 2011

They live on your back? No wonder you have such a problem with them.
...

You seem to have this thing, where if you say something over and over again, you think that it's true. It isn't. The Chief of the Defence Staff is not a minor official, and no matter how many times you say it, it doesn't make it so.

Where do you draw the line, Smallc? Who is a "minor official" and who is not?

I don't think that you and bambino understand how modern government works. In big government, everyone is "important". That is, everyone in government spends other people's money to promote the "public interest" and because their actions are "important".

Smallc · September 24, 2011

Where do you draw the line, Smallc? Who is a "minor official" and who is not?

It's like this - the CDS isn't a minor official. His deputy's, deputy's, deputy, well, now you might be on to something. Probably not though. Generals are never really minor officials.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Smallc

Smallc · September 24, 2011

I don't think that you and bambino understand how modern government works. In big government, everyone is "important".

:blink:

g_bambino · September 24, 2011

They live on my back, and yet they supposedly serve me.

Supposedly serve you? Do they or don't they?

Of course they do. They all have key functions in the governance and life of this country, and they require funds to carry it all out.

These "minor government/State officials" are spending too much of my money. Unless this changes soon, the end will not be good.

Too much of your money... And here I thought you payed the same taxes as the rest of us.

The planes are paid for regardless of whether or not anyone's in them. If you want less spent on them, fine. But, don't take your frustrations out on individuals who can't do much about the problem. Planes could be sold through Order-in-Council, but budgets are passed through parliament. Go yell outside the door there.

William Ashley · September 25, 2011

He didn't do anything wrong.

1. It was the Harper Government that approved the flights.

2. It was the advisory on the use of flights that approved the flights.

In direct line they would be in error not him. I think he would be in a conflict of interest in making those decisions himself, and it doesn't appear that was the case, end of story.

End of story.

If there is any "controversy or problem" here, it is the Harper Government that is the problem.

Edited September 25, 2011 by William Ashley

September 25, 2011

He didn't do anything wrong.

1. It was the Harper Government that approved the flights.

2. It was the advisory on the use of flights that approved the flights.

In direct line they would be in error not him. I think he would be in a conflict of interest in making those decisions himself, and it doesn't appear that was the case, end of story.

End of story.

If there is any "controversy or problem" here, it is the Harper Government that is the problem.

That’s a interesting perspective……..”hate the game, not the player” I suppose………Good point William.

August1991 · September 26, 2011

Too much of your money... And here I thought you payed the same taxes as the rest of us.
The planes are paid for regardless of whether or not anyone's in them.

Government bureaucrats reason as you, bambino, when they spend other people's money. "The limo was sitting there. What difference does it make?"

He didn't do anything wrong.

He didn't do anything wrong, and nor did any other bureaucrat. They just spent a few pennies of my money.

There are some 35 million Canadians. If each lost two pennies, most would probably not notice it. If you lost a penny, would you notice it?

And yet, 35 million pennies would mean $350,000 - and two pennies, $700,000. That eliminates a mortgage in the Glebe.

It is terrifying to think how modern federal governments spend money. At the stroke of a pen, Stephen Harper can pay off your mortgage - and no one will notice! Who notices two cents?

----

I was recently discussing politics/banking with an American friend and he finally said: "Canada? You have the population of Los Angeles! Who cares about Canada?" Canada, Los Angeles, Schwarzenegger, California, or Harper?

In my mind, I thought of Obama.

What happens when you have the power to tax and spend one tenth of a penny of other people's money (a loss they'll never notice) - but make one person very, very rich? Rich enough that the person's children will always be free to choose.

Edited September 26, 2011 by August1991

December 2, 2012

I agree 100%…………This storey is just the creation of news………….As was mentioned, the Challengers are already paid for, the aircrew aren't making any more or any less flying the CDS or nothing around and all the trips, including the flight to meet his family on vacation, which was required since he missed his already paid commercial flight to attend a ramp ceremony……….I'm glad the CDS basically told them to pound sand when asked if he'd resign, or pay back the cost of the flights.

Well it's been over a year, but an update from a few days ago:

http://www.thestar.c...challenger-jets

The federal government is clipping the wings of its fleet of Challenger jets, a travel perk that’s come to symbolize high-flying excess.
With four of the jets due to reach the end of their lifespan by 2014, the Conservative government is likely going to be parking them rather than make the investments needed to keep them flying.

No decision has been made yet but a source said Monday that the funding squeeze on the defence department makes it all but certain that fleet of six VIP transport jets will be downsized.

Countdown until the NDP Quebec caucus calls for replacements Challengers built by Bombardier…………

It's funny that these two factoids were not mentioned last year:

Sensitive to that optic—and with belt-tightening now underway across government — the Conservatives have sought to curtail their own use of the jets. Jay Paxton, spokesperson for Defence Minister Peter MacKay, said the use of the Challengers by cabinet ministers has been cut by 80 per cent since the Tories took office in 2006.

And:

The two jets left in the fleet will likely be reserved for the prime minister and the governor general. The Prime Minister is barred from using commercial flights for security reasons.
The remaining jets will also be able to perform medevac flights when required. The Challengers have been used ferrying soldiers seriously wounded in Afghanistan from a hospital in Germany back to Canada.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Derek L

login · December 3, 2012

Well it's been over a year, but an update from a few days ago:

http://www.thestar.c...challenger-jets

Countdown until the NDP Quebec caucus calls for replacements Challengers built by Bombardier…………

It's funny that these two factoids were not mentioned last year:

And:

Bombardier is packed for its orders for the mid term.

The orders likely wouldn't be able to be filled in time to replace the outgoing challengers.

It'd be better off for them to just buy some of these and rennovate..

http://www.jameslist.com/jets?ref=icon

Fact is though we have regular flights and just buying the CF (or rcmp) some helicopters and having those fly execs to the nearest airport should fullfill needs 99%.. its not like execs need to be that mobile. If a helicopter and regular flight by air ambulance, police helicopter or cf helicopter isn't sufficient in an emergency, it is a joke. They'd be better off leasing when needed or buying a regular coach or first class ticket on their sheltered company air canada. Hard sell to protect it if they don't use it themselves.

The air is one of the most dangerous places to be during an emergency (without air escort)

You can buy one of these for the cost of a challenger flight

http://www.jameslist...for-sale-510227

You can probably buy all these for the cost of one challenger and put them at major regional airports for police operations and emergencies

Eurocopter

EC120 Colibri

€ 650,000

Bell
230
€ 577,545
Bell
206
€ 531,341
Bell
206
€ 404,282
Bell
206
€ 381,180
Bell
206
€ 369,629
Eurocopter
AS355 Ecureuil 2/Twi..
€ 369,629
Bell
206
€ 337,286
Bell
206
€ 334,976
Bell
206
€ 320,000
Robinson
R44
€ 304,174
Kamov
Ka-26
€ 246,419
Robinson
R44 Clipper I
€ 173,264

2007 Robinson R44 Raven II for Sale

Click on Thumbnails to enlarge.

Contact Seller... By eMail...Name: Robinson R44 Raven II

Message...Your Email:

Description:

2007 Robinson R44 Raven II for sale. 1830 Hours TT, flown daily. Maintained to Transport Canada Commercial Standards. For further information please call or email...

Price: $218,000 CND

Location: Canada

2007 Robinson R44 Raven II

Exterior: Viper Blue with Back and white Stripes that can be removed

Interior: Grey Leather

Avionics/Instruments: 1-Kanad 406 ELT 1-VHF 1-Transponder 1-4 place intercom

Equipment: Dart baffle kit Dart floor protectors Dart Cargo mirror Dart Bear Paws All AD's and ASB's are up to date except for SB-78A (fuel Bladder not due yet)

OK one execujet

Bombardier/Challenger 604

7,900,000 USD

Check this...

http://www.controlle...px?OHID=1225375 price is a little high but a funny plane.. higher than the aquisition price I would do but I can picture rigging it for computer AI drone or attaching a AtA missile or AtS missile on it. For each f35 scrapped you can aquire 200 of these... with AI guidance and alitimiter and ground sensing and preampped landform from a simple application like google earth novel avoidance ... you could probably turn these into cruise missiles for less than the cost of a cruise missile.

3 f35's could give every member of parliament their own personal jet that could be set up for autopilot and weaponized if needed.

less than 100k for this one..

http://www.jameslist...-for-sale-27284

You could trow in some flight lessons to then you can cut the pilot requirements during emergencies... do it yourself solution.. the execs could afford their own ride at that price.

These might be nice if they could be refurbises for escort

1985 MiG 29 US$ 1,500,000 Ukraine 1.5 m is quite a bit.... but when you think about it it ain't bad as a VIP transport

1980 MiG 21UM US$ 40,000 Czech Republic

1980 MiG 21UM US$ 88,000 Czech Republic

MiG 21MF US$ 4,500 California, USA

still for sale

The jets will give Canadian air technicians something to learn about russian aircraft and specialize on. (and if Russia or the East attacks they will be confused to hell) - they are being used in Syria... they can go faster than the f35's too..

Maximum speed: 2,228 km/h (1,468 mph)
Maximum speed: Mach 2.05
Range: (internal fuel) 1,210 km (751 miles)
Service ceiling: 17,800 m (58,400 ft)

They are getting a little old but sounds like they havn't been flown all that much for the last while and may be able to be maintained for a bit.

Right if they are flying in copters.. then they might as well be learning to fly while they are being transported.

Throw these things instead of the airport shuttle throw one of them Canadian flags onto them

Kreidler

Florett

€ 2,950

BSA

s30-18

€ 6,750

Harley-Davidson
FLHRI Road King
€ 6,546
Victory
Hammer
€ 6,542
Triumph
Tiger
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Honda
VTX 1800 F
€ 6,157
Harley-Davidson
FXSTD Softail Deuc..
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Harley-Davidson
FXST Softail Stand..
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Harley-Davidson
XL883L Sportster L..
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Harley-Davidson
FXDWG Dyna Wide Gl..
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Other
a.j.s. 16 ms
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Harley-Davidson
FXSTB Softail Nigh..
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Harley-Davidson
FXDWG Dyna Wide Gl..
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Harley-Davidson
XL 1200L Sportster..
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Norton
Jubilee
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Harley-Davidson
XL883L Sportster L..
€ 4,617
Harley-Davidson
FXDWG Dyna Wide Gl..
€ 4,389
Harley-Davidson
XL1200C Sportster ..
€ 4,158
Honda
CB 900 F Bol d`Or
€ 3,850
Harley-Davidson
XL1200C Sportster ..
€ 3,846
Other
ariel 350 redhunt..
€ 3,600

Bimota
yb5
€ 11,950
and For around town... now there are probably better prices perhaps but it is the idea that costs could be kept much lower with just the cost of one challenger.
- Harley-Davidson
  FLHRC Road King Cl..
  € 11,547
- Harley-Davidson
  FXDWG Dyna Wide Gl..
  € 11,547
- Harley-Davidson
  FLHX Street Glide
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- Victory
  Cross Roads
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- Harley-Davidson
  FXSTC Softail Cust..
  € 10,704
- Harley-Davidson
  FXDWG Dyna Wide Gl..
  € 10,396
- Victory
  Cory Ness Jackpot
  € 10,392
- Harley-Davidson
  FLSTF Softail Fat ..
  € 10,007
- Bimota
  sb4
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- Harley-Davidson
  FXSTC Softail Cust..
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- Harley-Davidson
  FXDBI Street Bob
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- Harley-Davidson
  Shovelhead
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- Harley-Davidson
  VRSCA V-Rod
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- Harley-Davidson
  FLSTC Heritage Sof..
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- Harley-Davidson
  FXDF Dyna Fat Bob
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- Harley-Davidson
  FLHTCU Ultra Class..
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- Harley-Davidson
  FLSTF Softail Fat ..
  € 7,697
- Harley-Davidson
  FLSTF Softail Fat ..
  € 7,697
- Harley-Davidson
  FLHTCU Ultra Class..
  € 7,624

check this out

http://www.jameslist...for-sale-567068

Also new makeup face or a disguise artist/makeup artist in security detail should be able to secure transport of a VIP on commercial airline.

http://www.hybridfx....ges/company.htm

It can be taken one step further with Gaurd becomes exec Exec becomes gaurd switch.

I'd be crafty with pickup too.. not just airmail.. but like when a CF ship went into port of call they could roll the bike or land the helicopter and take it home on the boat.

Forget about freight costs, actually put the boats to use hauling back goods from ports of call.

Or better yet... buy the boats too

Boston Whaler

2012 Metan Vintage B..

€ 21,177

Westship
DESTINY
€ 23,102

Riva

St Tropez Nr. 283

€ 60,000

Riva
Caribe 42
€ 75,000
Riva
St. Tropez
€ 89,500
De Vries Lentsch
seagoing ketch
€ 59,500

Chris Craft
360 Commander
€ 45,434
Camper & Nicholsons
48
€ 92,501
Boston Whaler
2012 Metan Vintage B..
€ 21,177
Boston Whaler
2012 Metan Vintage B..
€ 38,499
Beneteau
Oceanis 440
€ 88,557
Beneteau
393 Oceanis
€ 80,856
Ocean
Super Sport
€ 69,228
Beneteau
First 38s5
€ 46,183
Wellcraft
Portofino
€ 50,054
Fountain
Sportfish Cruiser
€ 92,330
Beneteau
45' Beneteau First -..
€ 91,637
Beneteau
38' Beneteau
€ 50,054
Beneteau
36' Beneteau Center ..
€ 83,166
Kimera
Kimera Classic
€ 33,500
Westship
DESTINY
€ 23,102
Pirelli
Pzero 1000 Cabin
€ 75,000

Cranchi
33 Endurance
€ 100,000
Riva
Bravo 38 Special
€ 60,000
Wellcraft
Scarab 33
€ 68,000
Gulet
20 Mt
€ 100,000
Wellcraft
Scarab 30
€ 49,000
Fountain
31 Fish
€ 75,000
Astinor
1000 Lx
€ 100,000
Jeanneau
755
€ 39,900
Bertram
46.6
€ 100,000
Donzi
28 Zx
€ 44,000
Riva
Olympic
€ 67,500
Sunseeker
San Remo 35
€ 89,000
Quicksilver
QUICKSILVER QS PILOT..
€ 18,999
Other
Tony Giugliano 30 Sp..
€ 89,000
Cigarette
CAFE RACER 2012 Refi..
€ 73,156
Fountain
47 Lightning
€ 91,637
Fountain
EXECUTIONER
€ 61,528
Beneteau
373
€ 90,867
Cigarette
Revolution 42
€ 67,000
Sunseeker
Camargue 46
€ 99,000

and use them as coast gaurd, and ferry boats...

need a quiet place for a meeting forget down town toronto put it in the middle of lake ontario with a frigate or (frigates)next to it. or on an light Aircraft carrier

These arn't the only buys either.. .there are lots of sweet deals out there.

These could be used for Ferry services for instance...

Custom

Ferry

€ 3,500,000

Sanlorenzo
SD 92
€ 3,995,000
Sunseeker
Predator 108
€ 2,528,877
Azimut
100 JUMBO
€ 3,000,000

Fairline
Squadron 74
€ 1,100,000
Sunseeker
82 yacht
€ 1,640,000
Ferretti
customline 94
€ 3,450,000
Monti Fino
76
€ 1,110,015
Elegance
98
€ 3,450,000
Orucoglu Yacht and M..
Miss Tor 140
€ 4,900,000
Lurssen
165' Lursenn 60 Day ..
€ 2,302,480

With 1 billion on security costs for the g20 you could have filled lake ontario with yacths like these...

Orucoglu Yacht and M..

Miss Tor 270

€ 42,990,000

€ 32,000,000

<a href="http://www.jameslist...or-sale-582962" title="Kingship Motor Yacht">Kingship

Motor Yacht

€ 12,705,991

Orkun Yachting
Orkun 45m
€ 17,495,000
Alloy Yachts
Cruiser
€ 12,500,000
Feadship
Dream
€ 30,725,397

CRN
Darlings Danama
€ 44,000,000
Admiral
C Froce 75
€ 58,000,000
Admiral
C Force 65
€ 44,000,000
Admiral
C Force 57
€ 32,000,000
Admiral
C Force 45
€ 17,000,000
Admiral
X Lence 57
€ 31,000,000
Admiral
X Lence 45
€ 16,500,000
Admiral
X Lence 65
€ 43,000,000
Custom
Cantieri di Pisa/Pis..
€ 23,000,000
Admiral
XLence 55
€ 31,000,000
Mondomarine
M 50
€ 15,900,000
Izar of Spain
TUSCAN SUN
€ 22,716,772
Orucoglu Yacht and M..
Miss Tor 180
€ 12,000,000
Columbus
Global Explorer
€ 50,000,000
Trinity Yachts
CARPE DIEM
€ 46,126,598
Trinity Yachts
Motoryacht
€ 36,885,877
Benetti
Motor Yacht
€ 26,875,096
Trinity Yachts
WHEELS
€ 22,139,227
Trinity Yachts
QUASAR 51
€ 24,641,922
Trinity Yachts
ANJILIS
€ 19,174,496

Trinity Yachts

Motor Yacht

€ 30,763,900

Trinity Yachts
CARPE DIEM II
€ 11,935,931

Christensen Yachts

Motor Yacht

€ 15,324,195

Throw some SAM shoulder launch and CAWS (gattlin guns or THEL platorms on these suckers and you have an interdiction and defence system.)

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Commercial: For Sale: Fast Attack Craft This is New generation of Fast Combatl Craft based on the Hydrodynamics innovation, advanced STEALTH and Naval Architecture... read more Year: 2013 Length: 178' Status: Available Location: British Virgin Islands British Virgin Islands View Full Listing And Contact Advertiser

This is only 1.7 million

Commercial: For Sale: Coast Guard 33 meter ready for quick delivery Featured Advert!Click here for 37 photos and more information CLASS: Norwegian Navy Coast Guard 2 TONNAGE: GT: 184 NT: 55 Displ tonnage: 96 LOA: 33.1 meter Breadth: 6.8 m Draught: 1.8 m PAX: Was build for 77 soldiers 2 x pitch propeller Bow thruster Speed: Max 28 Service 22... read more Year: 1992 Length: 33m Location: Haakonsvern Naval base Norway Status: Available Price: EUR €1,300,000 [CAD $1,653,808.97 Approx] Contact: Norsk Megling & Auksjon AS Email: Send Enquiry Telephone: +47 90186230

This could be used for Ferry service and cargo.

These things are hulks and super weaponizable...

Commercial: For Sale: 375' RORO, LOLO, Container, Cargo Ship Featured Advert!Click here for 1 photo and more information New Annual inspection, update SOLAS, Drydock 2010, Panama Flag, Polish Registry of Shipping - IACS Member Built Lubeck, Germany 1980 Engines: Prupp Mak Maschinenbau, supercharged x 2 3 Diesel generators 432 KFA plus 1 emergency 70KVA genset Max speed 14 knots Service speed 12 knots at 2MT per day Capacity: 359 cars or 70 - 40ft containers or cargo trailers. 2900 MT car and cargo capacity. Contact us for further information.... read more Length: 375' Location: Egypt Status: Available Price: GBP £3,000,000 [CAD $4,772,423.66 Approx] Contact: Midcoast Yacht and Ship Brokerage Email: Send Enquiry Telephone: 207-372-1015

This could be used as a fishing boat...

Commercial: For Sale: FREEZER STERN TRAWLER 40m #4318 FREEZER STERN TRAWLER - NOTE - VESSEL NEVER WORKED - INCLUDES EU LICENCE . . . . . . FISHROOM - 3 holds: 2 upper holds of total 170 m3 capable of freezing at -4 C 1 lower hold of 390 m3 capable of freezing at -25 C. . . .... read more Year: 1996 Length: 40m Status: Available Price: EUR €1,500,000 [CAD $1,908,241.12 Approx] Location: West Greece Greece View Full Listing And Contact Advertiser

'

as well as patrol and merchant marine.

This one is already in NS.. for a rock bottom price even as a stationary offshore platform.

Featured Advert!Click here for 12 photos and more information STERN TRAWLER in Good running condition Painted about 5 years ago. LENGTH: 117' BEAM: 28' DRAFT: 11' BUILT: 1971 GROSS TONS: 365.73 NET TONS: 177.14 ENGINE: CATERPILLER D399 turbo, operated annually 1200 hp at 1200 RPM Speed reported 10 knots VARIABLE PITCH PROP Bottom cleaned by diver in 2011 Hull and machinery reported in good condition, owners will have in running condition Asking $195,000.... read more Year: 1971 Length: 117' Location: Nova Scotia Canada Status: Available Price: USD $195,000 [CAD $195,058.50 Approx] Contact: Midcoast Yacht and Ship Brokerage - New York, USA Email: Send Enquiry Telephone: 207-372-1015

Sails have been used for centuries...

142' Grand Banks Fishing Schooner - Passenger Cargo Sailing Ship

Year: 1942
Current Price: US$ 325,000
Located in Boothbay Harbor, Maine, ME
Hull Material: Wood
Engine/Fuel Type: Single diesel
YW# 74503-2445967

Other photos: Photo 1, Photo 2, Photo 3, Photo 4, Photo 5, Photo 6, Photo 7, Photo 8, Photo 9, Photo 10, Photo 11, Photo 12, Photo 13.

The Sherman Zwicker is an auxilary diesel powered Grand Banks dory fishing schooner. She has been restored and is continually upgraded. Her Fairbanks Morse 6 cylinder diesel was completely rebuilt in 2010 and is a fascinating part of this amazing vessel. She has had the very best of care since her purchase in 1968. The Zwicker is also a museum portraying the industry of the Grand Banks fisheries and the men who worked these boats.

For more history, please Google: Schooner Sherman Zwicker

Our goal is to find the right individual, organization or business that can prove the ability to care for this historic vessel and keep her going for the next generations to enjoy and marvel at. This is a rare opportunity and we look forward to your inquiry. Price negotiable.

Please contact the listing broker to learn how this vessel would be gifted to a non-profit organization that can prove financial abililty to maintain this vessel

Click on image to enlarge

87' Classic American Passenger Schooner

Year: 1923
Current Price: US$ 395,000
Located in Maine Coast, ME
Hull Material: Wood
Engine/Fuel Type: Single diesel
YW# 74503-2387882

Other photos: Photo 1, Photo 2, Photo 3, Photo 4, Photo 5, Photo 6.

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Gaff rigged passenger schooner. 87' on deck, 118' over all. She has been completely rebuilt and refitted over the past 12 years. Complete rig replaced 2 years ago.

The Ada C. Lore is considered a new boat in all respects, cabins and crew quarters are mostly all that remain of the original vessel.

LOD 87'

LOA 118"

Beam 22

Draft 5-6 with board down 11-0

Engine is a Cat 3406 300 hp with only 600 hours, new installation in 2000

Reverse gear 2 1/2:1. All in very good condition

CO2 in engine space

12 volt electrical system, 4 batteries, house and start, genset

Electronics: radar, depth, plotter

Safety equipment

Sails by Nat Wilson, Masts and spars are Douglas fir

Construction: sawn white oak frames, keel, and floor timbers, white oak carvel 2" planking. Galvanized fastened.

Vessel is in very good condition. Currently in US Coast Guard inspection for 49 passengers. Owner anticipates increase to 85 passenger in the future.

THERE ARE ALREADY A LOT OF POSTS HERE SO MY POINT SHOULD BE CLEAR YOU CAN GET A LOT MORE MILAGE WITH OPTIONS THAN YOU CAN WITH ALL YOUR EGGS IN ONE BASKET.

They could buy things that could be used for commercial purposes with that money and convert it into "crown shipping and travel" intakes if administered properly. Such as running tours and schools while overlapping VIP and security operations.

I'm not saying scap the current plans completely but I am saying that the strategy should be mixed up.

3 challengers VIP should be more than enough if you sacrifice the other 3, then you can buy a lot of helicopters and other operational vehicles.

Just like if you scrap 2/3rds of the f35's or atleast stagger buy ins you can get a lot of other jets so you have options. It not only costs less it allow more performance capacity for the same price or less.

The key is to make sure you have ways to use the equipment so it ain't only VIP transport... it has to serve a purpose, and economic purpose.

Just bear in mind the US has an airforce version of this too... http://en.wikipedia...._reserve_fleets

http://en.wikipedia....ST-86-02543.JPG

I'd also commission a life size rubber ducky top for a good sized ship, just for the awe factor.

I wonder hower how much these things are costing india... http://en.wikipedia....haurya_(missile)

Edited December 3, 2012 by login