ing passport prices sky rocket!

[William Ashley]

What a scam. The old ones were good enough, they got you in and out of countries as long as you didn't travel to the US. They should just make the New passport an Optional "for travel to the US" passport and leave the people banned from entry to the US to the old cheaper one.

http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110918/passport-cost-110918/20110918/?hub=EdmontonHome

The US version could include backed up to the chip various bodily orafice camera scans, to let them know what the internal parts of the body normally look like, dental records, derma scans, biometrics, newpaper subscriptions, a log of everything ever written by the person, religious affiliations, employment, childhood friends, shoping lists, and how they tie their shoes. This can be matched with the records they are getting under the perimeter security agreement, and the spying they already do, to check to see how well the person knows themself.

Thats like 100 drinks in mexico or more price add on.

Edited September 18, 2011 by William Ashley

[capricorn]

How can the cost of passports be triple the cost of the old ones when the price of new passports hasn't even been yet determined?

[William Ashley]

How can the cost of passports be triple the cost of the old ones when the price of new passports hasn't even been yet determined?

Read the article. And yes for the government officials that have bought them, it very much has, read the article $225

I should note I bet the government is buying the $5000 readers instead of a simple phone like the google nexus x

On top of this technology, which Entrust has already sold in more than a few European countries, an update to Entrusts' platform will allow credentials to be verified using common smartphones. Mahdi said card readers generally run a country around $5,000 per checkpoint, “but if you could find a mobile phone, one example would be the Google Nexus S, that has capabilities in it to actually read electronic passports,” it would lower the economic barrier to entry.

So much for cost savings by the government.

http://www.google.ca/nexus/

25 times less than the $5000 machine .. I bet you could get them for $100 each making them 50 times less the cost

Also what is so hot about this tech.. re: hacked already

http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2007/08/epassport

Not only this but the chip can be "attacked" meaning that anyone travelling can have their chip demagnetized or attacked, and suddently it is unusable and they get hauled aside or potentially imprisoned in the US --- detained due to not having travel documents - getting out could easily take 2 or more weeks while they wait for credentials to be verified -- this can take a long time as they drag their buts.

This is not a better passport, it is hell waiting to happen. They need a secure chip not one that can be attacked externally. Sorry OPEN CHIP --- READABLE CHIP BY ANYONE>> NOT SECURE!

I close my passport put it in my pocket -- secure... ECHIP PASSPORT THAT GIVES ALL MY PERSONAL DETAILS TO PEOPLE WITH A CELL PHONE NOT SECURE!

ALSO THE FACT OF BEING TRACKED AS PEOPLE CAN FOLLOW ME BY FOLLOWING MY PASSPORT SIGNATURE NOT GOOD. I Have much better security systems for my own 2nd bank card than this stuff.

Now you need to implant a jammer in your wallet/passport case just to make the damn this relatively secure.

And don't think this is enough.

is this included in the passport price, why would the government compramise peoples security and privacy so needlessly?

Edited September 18, 2011 by William Ashley

[Guest American Woman]

e-passports in the U.S. cost $125 - wonder why they're so much more in Canada? - or maybe they won't be, when all is said and done.

Edited September 18, 2011 by American Woman

[William Ashley]

e-passports in the U.S. cost $125 - wonder why they're so much more in Canada? - or maybe they won't be, when all is said and done.

US patents and secure shipping?

Because it turns out that it is cheaper to make them in foreign countries like Thailand than in the US, so the State Department has been outsourcing printing of blank passports and pocketing the estimated $100 million yearly that is the difference between what they charge and what they cost.

I recall a bunch of these went missing for some country.

Everything costs more in Canada than East Asia to make. Heck they even outsourced the olympics to China.. but I highly doubt the Harper Government will outsource Canadian passports to China.. Just to reduce the price to $10 each rather than the $225 slated, down 50 or so $$$'s from the current price.

Re post from other site

I used to work for the passport office in Mississauga, and the security steps & measures were so strict for passport production. I sort of assumed that no passports were produced outside of Canada due to the strict security requirements involved in producing the passports.

http://www.international.gc.ca/about-a_propos/atip-aiprp/solution.aspx?lang=eng&view=d

Edited September 18, 2011 by William Ashley

[Bob]

Just another tax grab masquerading as something it isn't, because it's for "security" purposes. It's funny how self-described "conservatives" justify wasteful expenditures, revealing themselves to be just like the leftists. Want security during travel? Start profiling. Is the traveler's name Muhammad bin Abdul or Fatima Amizan (or something else Arabic/Islamic)? Check him. Check her. Problem solved, and money saved while we stop wasting time searching Jean LaFrancois, Bill Johnson, or Vladimir Romanovsky in order satisfy our quote of political correctness.

[Guest American Woman]

I recall a bunch of these went missing for some country.

Everything costs more in Canada than East Asia to make. Heck they even outsourced the olympics to China.. but I highly doubt the Harper Government will outsource Canadian passports to China..

Where is that second quote - Quote: Because it turns out that it is cheaper to make them in foreign countries like Thailand than in the US, so the State Department has been outsourcing printing of blank passports and pocketing the estimated $100 million yearly that is the difference between what they charge and what they cost. - from? Do you have a link?

Edited September 18, 2011 by American Woman

[August1991]

Excluding the $25 consular fee, which Passport Canada does not retain but turns over to general revenues, the current general passport is priced at $62. That means the $225 diplomatic ePassport currently costs more than three times as much.

...

The cash-strapped agency said that in 2009-2010, it lost an average of $3.14 for every passport issued because of production, distribution, security and staff costs. And it notes that over the last decade, the basic charge for a passport has increased only once, in 2004 by $2, to reflect higher shipping charges.

Does it cost Visa or Mastercard $65 to produce what in effect is the same thing? Better yet, do Visa and Mastercard have a better handle on the security of the documents that they issue?

When I lost a passport (yes it happened), it seemed to me that the officials were more concerned about issuing a new one to me than they were about cancelling the passport lost. When I have lost credit cards (it happens), the officials had the opposite reaction.

[William Ashley]

Where is that second quote - Quote: Because it turns out that it is cheaper to make them in foreign countries like Thailand than in the US, so the State Department has been outsourcing printing of blank passports and pocketing the estimated $100 million yearly that is the difference between what they charge and what they cost. - from? Do you have a link?

http://www.google.ca/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&site=&source=hp&q=Because+it+turns+out+that+it+is+cheaper+to+make+them+in+foreign+countries+like+Thailand+than+in+the+US%2C+so+the+State+Department+has+been+outsourcing+printing+of+blank+passports+and+pocketing+the+estimated+%24100+million+yearly+that+is+the+difference+between+what+they+charge+and+what+they+cost.&pbx=1&oq=Because+it+turns+out+that+it+is+cheaper+to+make+them+in+foreign+countries+like+Thailand+than+in+the+US%2C+so+the+State+Department+has+been+outsourcing+printing+of+blank+passports+and+pocketing+the+estimated+%24100+million+yearly+that+is+the+difference+between+what+they+charge+and+what+they+cost.&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=593l593l0l1003l1l0l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=c58fc22cc37b8adc&biw=1721&bih=866

A newspaper investigation into e-passport contracting by the Government Printing Office (GPO) found that the non-profit GPO is charging the State Department 85 percent more than production costs (totaling about $100 million in 16 months); that the patented chip provided by Smartrac Technology, Ltd., in the Netherlands, is inserted in the cover in Europe before the RFID wire antenna (used to couple to readers at border inspection points) is outfitted at a factory in Ayutthana, Thailand; that blank passports had been mailed from Thailand to the Netherlands by unsecure commercial couriers; and that the patented technology had been stolen by the Chinese in Thailand. The completed blank passports are processed for issuing by the State Department. The report quoted the GPO assertion that no U.S. company could make the chips needed. A back-up facility, originally planned for the Nevada Test Site, a secure desert location, was moved in 2006 to NASA’s John C. Stennis Space Center, near Bay St. Louis, Mississippi. The site was in the path of Hurricane Katrina in 2005 [6].

http://www.todaysengineer.org/2008/May/RFID.asp <-- site connected with IEEE (a reputable international organization

http://www.ieee.org/index.html )

http://www.ieee.org/about/index.html

Edited September 18, 2011 by William Ashley

[Guest American Woman]

I don't care about the cost - I never thought that it cost $125 to produce a passport and I doubt it costs $225 to make a Canadian passport. But having the computer chips made in Thailand .... that's just plain nuts. Hard to figure where their heads were at, as clearly that's a security risk. Supposedly the production is in the process of being moved to Minnesota, but it sounds as if some are still being made in Thailand. Go figure........

Edited to add: Thanks for the links.

Edited September 18, 2011 by American Woman

[capricorn]

Read the article. And yes for the government officials that have bought them, it very much has, read the article $225

From the articles I read, I'm not clear whether there is a difference between diplomatic e-passports and passports issued to ordinary citizens.

Since January 2009 the federal government has issued 40,000 so-called ePassports to senior government officials and diplomats.

The secure document has a computer chip that stores key personal data, including an image of the bearer, that can be accessed with a scanner.

Passport Canada, which is required to run a break-even operation, has not yet announced what Canadians will pay for the more complex, high-tech document.

---

Diplomatic ePassports are valid for five years, just like the current standard versions, and are routinely issued to immediate family members as well if they reside with the senior official and sometimes travel with that person.

Like current diplomatic passports, they feature a distinctive red cover rather than the standard blue.

---

"No decisions have yet been made on the price of the new electronic passport," said Beatrice Fenelon, a Passport Canada spokeswoman. "We are still in the process of consulting Canadians."

http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110918/passport-cost-110918/20110918/?hub=EdmontonHome

As I understand, Canadians will be able to procure a passport valid for 10 years. We now pay $87.00 for a 5 year passport, or $174.00 over 10 years. There hasn't been an increase in passport fees since 2004 but if the projected increase is indeed intended to be $50, that does seem exorbitant.

[William Ashley]

I don't care about the cost - I never thought that it cost $125 to produce a passport and I doubt it costs $225 to make a Canadian passport. But having the computer chips made in Thailand .... that's just plain nuts. Hard to figure where their heads were at, as clearly that's a security risk. Supposedly the production is in the process of being moved to Minnesota, but it sounds as if some are still being made in Thailand. Go figure........

Edited to add: Thanks for the links.

Hey atleast its the american black market and illegals that have access to it in Minnesota as opposed to VC's in Thailand huhn, definately safer for America then no doubt.

Edited September 19, 2011 by William Ashley

[William Ashley]

From the articles I read, I'm not clear whether there is a difference between diplomatic e-passports and passports issued to ordinary citizens.

http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110918/passport-cost-110918/20110918/?hub=EdmontonHome

As I understand, Canadians will be able to procure a passport valid for 10 years. We now pay $87.00 for a 5 year passport, or $174.00 over 10 years. There hasn't been an increase in passport fees since 2004 but if the projected increase is indeed intended to be $50, that does seem exorbitant.

There is. "Governmental" passports have red covers, while "commoner" passports have "blue covers". There could be a difference. Red Passports seems to cost more due to - the red dye in them - likely the blood of some rare endangered animal, thus the higher price.

Nothing beats security like DNA type matching on a rare endangered animal from Antarctica.

Some airports have "diplomatic lines" for speedy access .. red helps. Although in some cases it doesn't.. take for intance Bruce Hyers.. major problems for using his red one in Mexico. Apparently you can have both a blue passport and a red passport, and if you are military also a military ID (passport)

http://www.ppt.gc.ca/pptc/documents.aspx?lang=eng

Actually he used his green passport not a red passport (refering to Hyers I think)

Special Passport (green cover)

These are issued to people representing the Canadian government on official business, including Privy Councillors, Members of Parliament, provincial cabinet members, public servants, citizens nominated as official non-diplomatic delegates[20] and Canadian Forces members who are posted abroad.[21]

Edited September 19, 2011 by William Ashley

[Wilber]

Canadian passports have been a rip for years. If you take it on a yearly basis, we pay nearly twice as much for a passport as Americans. That doesn't count the inconvenience of having to renew twice as often. Some countries won't accept a passport that has less than six months remaining, so in those cases they are only 4 1/2 year passports. As far as chips go, my bank puts them in my cards for nothing.

[Smallc]

Canadian passports have been a rip for years. If you take it on a yearly basis, we pay nearly twice as much for a passport as Americans.

Well, that's because, in general, Americans don't pay for anything from their government. The reality is, Passport Canada is, and must be, self sustaining. That's how the rates are determined. I don't see why I should subsidize passports with taxes.

[TimG]

As far as chips go, my bank puts them in my cards for nothing.

Don't go to Europe if you don't have a chip card. The same will eventually happen in Canada.

[Bonam]

Meh, hardly a relevant expense. $225 or whatever every 5 years? Big deal. $3.75 a month for a document that allows you to travel anywhere in the world is hardly expensive.

[Bob]

Meh, hardly a relevant expense. $225 or whatever every 5 years? Big deal. $3.75 a month for a document that allows you to travel anywhere in the world is hardly expensive.

But it's not that simple, it's just ANOTHER cost on top of so many others in so many parts of our lives. From fuel to booze to licensing your pets. How about the fact that this document costs $225 to produce? How does that make any sense, whatsoever? I can buy a used laptop for that. It reminds me of the cellular companies selling SIM cards for $25, when they cost perhaps fifty cents to produce - but at least the cellular company is making a profit! The government just doesn't care enough to procure anything for a normal price.

[Wilber]

Well, that's because, in general, Americans don't pay for anything from their government. The reality is, Passport Canada is, and must be, self sustaining. That's how the rates are determined. I don't see why I should subsidize passports with taxes.

The point is, they pay basically the same for a ten year document as we do for a five. The Brits pay $120 for a ten year document. There is no reason a 10 year passport should cost more than a 5 year.

[Bonam]

But it's not that simple, it's just ANOTHER cost on top of so many others in so many parts of our lives. From fuel to booze to licensing your pets. How about the fact that this document costs $225 to produce? How does that make any sense, whatsoever? I can buy a used laptop for that. It reminds me of the cellular companies selling SIM cards for $25, when they cost perhaps fifty cents to produce - but at least the cellular company is making a profit! The government just doesn't care enough to procure anything for a normal price.

Of course it doesn't cost $225 to produce. It probably doesn't even cost $1. But it has to pay for a whole giant government bureaucracy with thousands of overpaid paper shufflers. That's how government works. But as things go, passports are hardly a cost worth whining about.

[TimG]

The point is, they pay basically the same for a ten year document as we do for a five. The Brits pay $120 for a ten year document. There is no reason a 10 year passport should cost more than a 5 year.

But the Brits and the Americans have a government deficit problem that is much worse than here. It makes no sense to compare the cost of government services because the Brits and the Yanks are obviously paying too little for the services they receive.

Would you be happier if they called it tax on people rich enough to afford to travel? It would be progressive and eliminates the argument that government fees should be connected to the cost of providing the service or that those fees should be the same across juristictions.

Edited September 19, 2011 by TimG

[Bryan]

But as things go, passports are hardly a cost worth whining about.

That depends.

I'm expecting to travel to at least 3 other countries in the next 4 months, so I'm not concerned personally, but I do know people whose only "international" travel is a shopping trip to Grand Forks. For them to have to pay the kinds of prices being speculated in the OP is ridiculous.

[Shakeyhands]

Some countries won't accept a passport that has less than six months remaining, so in those cases they are only 4 1/2 year passports.

This has bugged me for a long time, I don't understand the logic here.

[Wilber]

This has bugged me for a long time, I don't understand the logic here.

I think the logic may be that if their entry visa is good for six months, they won't accept a passport with less time remaining on it. I have come and gone from the same country several times in less than six months but my passport has not been stamped each time. I am assuming that the previous visa was still good.

[Wilber]

But the Brits and the Americans have a government deficit problem that is much worse than here. It makes no sense to compare the cost of government services because the Brits and the Yanks are obviously paying too little for the services they receive.

Would you be happier if they called it tax on people rich enough to afford to travel? It would be progressive and eliminates the argument that government fees should be connected to the cost of providing the service or that those fees should be the same across juristictions.

Or maybe we have a lousy business model. Do you always assume the cost is justified when you pay too much for something?

Canadians need documents to travel. Often they need documents so they can make a living an pay taxes. It is governments job to provide them. They are not doing you a favour.