Thoughts Ten Years Later, September 11, 2001

[bush_cheney2004]

...That also relates to how I feel about the United States, or all entities who hold power over others. We all have a certain amount of responsibility and choice, and we all have to face the consequences of our decisions, both good and bad.

So you "feel" that the United States holds power over you and others? Why?

[Argus]

No, but evangelically preaching democracy to the planet while servicing the needs of several of it's dictators does.

Hypocrisy is an atrocity?

[Argus]

As opposed to your enlightened belief that we should support them?

I didn't say my belief was enlightened. It is, however, realistic. Nor have I said we need to support them. What does the US do to support Saudi Arabia again? The US has given money in some areas, notably Egypt, for strategic reasons which normally focus on maintaining stability and peace. They do that not because they have any great fondness for a particular dictator but because they fear the alternative is worse. Normally, they're not far off the mark with that. Though there clearly have been exceptions.

As I recall you also believe we should ignore pedophilia and support the priests that practice it

You noticed that, did you? Where did you notice it? In some imaginary fantasy land of yours where your far-left ideology actually makes a modicum of sense?

[dre]

What apparently outraged bin laden the most was the presence of unclean infidels on holy Saudi Arabian land. Ie, there were American troops on bases there with the permission of Saudi authorities. He found that presence an outrage.

I wonder how you'd feel if someone here decided the presence of Muslims was an outrage, and started killing thousands of them. Would you shake your head and say "Well, that Blowback's a bitch. They shouldn't have gone where they weren't wanted."

Well what actually outraged Bin Laden was the presense of foreign militaries... and you can be damn sure that if there were Iranian or Syrian military bases here, and they kept a nuclear fleet parked a little ways off the coast for most of the year that there would be all kinds of trouble.

The reality is that if the situation was reversed we would feel roughly the same way they do. And Id actually Hazard to guess that if a foreign military tried to do the kinds of things in the US, that the US and its allies have been doing in the middle east, that AMericans would make these people look like pussycats.

[Guest American Woman]

The reality is that if the situation was reversed we would feel roughly the same way they do. And Id actually Hazard to guess that if a foreign military tried to do the kinds of things in the US, that the US and its allies have been doing in the middle east, that AMericans would make these people look like pussycats.

And I'd wager that if the situation were reversed, we'd go after our own government for allowing it, not innocent people from the other country; and to "guess" that Americans would go after innocent people and make the terrorists look like pussycats is the lowest of the low. And it speaks of YOU, not Americans. :angry:

[Guest American Woman]

The archbishops/cardinals that turn a blind eye?

Yes, of course. Only guilty of "turning a blind eye." Riiiight.

Sorry, but you profit from it and you help provide the means - and sometimes join in. You're not getting off that easily. You may have convinced yourself that that's the role your country plays, but you're not deceiving me.

No, more like the family member of a molested child who shoots a clergyman or whatnot for it. Neither side is in the right.

Ummmm. No. Not at all. Going along with the analogy, it's much more like the family member of a molested child who murders a child or parishioner for it. That's the reality of the situation.

Edited September 14, 2011 by American Woman

[GostHacked]

Hypocrisy is an atrocity?

Hypocrisy can lead to atrocities.

[maple_leafs182]

Hardly surprising, but do we see Russia being attacked throughout the world like the Americans have? Nope. Not even a single instance of a Russian plane hijacked or embassy or warship attacked, or citizen killed in response to its brutality against the Muslims of Chechnya - except within Russia by Chechnyans, of course.

Buddy, listen to the the attackers reasons why they attacked, they aren't lying. Why are you simply discrediting what they are saying?

[Guest American Woman]

Buddy, listen to the the attackers reasons why they attacked, they aren't lying. Why are you simply discrediting what they are saying?

How would you know if they're lying or not?

[GostHacked]

How would you know if they're lying or not?

How do you know your government is lying or not?

[Guest American Woman]

How do you know your government is lying or not?

Ummmmmmmm...Since I've never said - Buddy, listen to the U.S. reasons why they attacked, they aren't lying. Why are you simply discrediting what they are saying? - I find it interesting that you would pose such a question to me - rather than maple_leafs182. Interesting, but not real surprising.

[eyeball]

You noticed that, did you? Where did you notice it? In some imaginary fantasy land of yours where your far-left ideology actually makes a modicum of sense?

I noticed it here in the thread that asks if Catholic Sex Abuse Criticism = Anti-Semitism.

...I would submit that contempt has nothing to do with sex with minors and everything to do with the Church's politically unacceptable moral pronouncements on social issues dear to the hearts and minds of the Left.

I've also noticed how often that criticism of support for Middle Eastern dictators is likewise dismissed as anti-Semitic far-left ideology. Without doubt this is the lamest most abject apology for some of the worst loathsome and contemptible human behaviours on the planet. It's so far beyond denial it closes in on complicity.

I stand by my analogy - the Pope is to his pedophiles as Uncle Sam is to its dictators. Notice how the victims of each of these want them all charged with crimes against humanity. I suppose next we'll be hearing that it's only the far-left victims that are calling for this.

[GostHacked]

Ummmmmmmm...Since I've never said - Buddy, listen to the U.S. reasons why they attacked, they aren't lying. Why are you simply discrediting what they are saying? - I find it interesting that you would pose such a question to me - rather than maple_leafs182. Interesting, but not real surprising.

I pose the question to you, because well, you are an American correct? Maple_leafs and I are on the same page a good deal of the time, so it's pointless to ask the question to maple_leafs ... and if you want that answers, I might be able to speak for maple_leafs and say .. yes, yes our governments lie.

But why ask a Canadian on some specificity that only an American can answer? It's obvious that this is something some American posters on this forum love to throw around when convenient. So, I'll ask you, because you simply won't accept an outsiders observations. Obviously I need to live in the US to answer that question.

I'll ask again American Woman, how do you know when your government is lying to you?

[bloodyminded]

I noticed it here in the thread that asks if Catholic Sex Abuse Criticism = Anti-Semitism.

I've also noticed how often that criticism of support for Middle Eastern dictators is likewise dismissed as anti-Semitic far-left ideology. Without doubt this is the lamest most abject apology for some of the worst loathsome and contemptible human behaviours on the planet. It's so far beyond denial it closes in on complicity.

I stand by my analogy - the Pope is to his pedophiles as Uncle Sam is to its dictators. Notice how the victims of each of these want them all charged with crimes against humanity. I suppose next we'll be hearing that it's only the far-left victims that are calling for this.

Nice catch, eyeball.

But it begs the question: why do some posters believe that no one will ever remember anything they've written, and at inopportune moments?

[Guest American Woman]

I pose the question to you, because well, you are an American correct? Maple_leafs and I are on the same page a good deal of the time, so it's pointless to ask the question to maple_leafs ... and if you want that answers, I might be able to speak for maple_leafs and say .. yes, yes our governments lie.

That's not my question. My question is how does he know al Qaeda et al aren't lying?

But why ask a Canadian on some specificity that only an American can answer?

My comment was in regards to your not asking him how he knows al Qaeda et al aren't lying, but instead ask me a question about something I've never claimed. Again, quite - interesting. And now you pursue the issue with me rather than asking him - again, even though I've never made such a claim. Very - interesting - indeed.

[CitizenX]

How do you know your government is lying or not?

If their lips are moving they are lying.

[jbg]

I stand by my analogy - the Pope is to his pedophiles as Uncle Sam is to its dictators.

Good slogan. But how many of "Uncle Sam's dictators" countries' would likely be ruled democratically if the "dictator" weren't there?

[dre]

Good slogan. But how many of "Uncle Sam's dictators" countries' would likely be ruled democratically if the "dictator" weren't there?

I guess we will never find out if we keep propping up dictators, autocrats, and other totalitarian regimes.

[Bob]

I guess we will never find out if we keep propping up dictators, autocrats, and other totalitarian regimes.

Oh please, another cheap attempt to blame America for the sickness of Arab/Muslim societies. They're anti-democratic with or without the West. People like you act as if democracy, freedom, and prosperity are the default states of being for society until some evil outside force (in this case, the USA) comes in and messes with the social machinery. Absurd.

[Argus]

The reality is that if the situation was reversed we would feel roughly the same way they do. And Id actually Hazard to guess that if a foreign military tried to do the kinds of things in the US, that the US and its allies have been doing in the middle east, that AMericans would make these people look like pussycats.

You would, would you? Well, I'd hazard a guess -- and it's probably a hell of a lot more fact-based than yours - that if some Christian wack jobs flew a trio of airliners into huge buildings in India or Pakistan or Indonesia or Egypt, the streets would run red with the blood of Christians as Muslim mobs hunted them down, hacked them to pieces and burned them; men, women and children, in the thousands.

Oddly, Muslim neighborhoods in the U.S. suffered no mobs with machetes and torches. Not even one.

[bush_cheney2004]

Oh please, another cheap attempt to blame America for the sickness of Arab/Muslim societies. They're anti-democratic with or without the West. People like you act as if democracy, freedom, and prosperity are the default states of being for society until some evil outside force (in this case, the USA) comes in and messes with the social machinery. Absurd.

Agreed...and that's just another reason why Israel is exceptional...and supported accordingly. There is no oil to "steal"

[Argus]

Buddy, listen to the the attackers reasons why they attacked, they aren't lying. Why are you simply discrediting what they are saying?

Because they're ignorant, backward, barbarian savages who still squat and defecate in the streets and then wipe their asses with their bare hands.

Why you lend any credence to propaganda broadcasts is beyond me.

[Argus]

I noticed it here in the thread that asks if Catholic Sex Abuse Criticism = Anti-Semitism.

Odd how you can post a link to the thread itself, but not to any post of mine, particularly not to any post which suggests we should either ignore pedophilia or support priests who practice it. So I'm going to just assume that, as has been noted, you've gone so far off the deep end of the left side of the pool that you simply adjust facts to fit your own twisted hate for anyone who disagrees with you.

I've also noticed how often that criticism of support for Middle Eastern dictators is likewise dismissed as anti-Semitic far-left ideology.

You've noticed that criticism of support for dictators is dismissed as anti-semitism? When? By whom? Cite please. Roll up your sleeves, plunge in there and try and find something which even remotely bears any resemblance to your warped drivel.

I stand by my analogy - the Pope is to his pedophiles as Uncle Sam is to its dictators. Notice how the victims of each of these want them all charged with crimes against humanity. I suppose next we'll be hearing that it's only the far-left victims that are calling for this.

First, you clearly don't even know what a pedophile is. So that pretty much renders your entire rant so much ill-educated twaddle. Second, if the pope is to be charged for the misdeeds of others, of people who did things against his orders and wishes, then should we not be trying every world leader anyone time any of their people do harm to others? I seem to recall seeing that Nelson Mandela made a special journey to Libya to praise Muammar Gadaffy and call him brother. Shouldn't Nelson Mandela be tried for crimes against humanity?

[Guest Derek L]

If a guy really hates Muslims, why would he gun down white children?

How many Muslims died on 9/11? Or in the preceding war on terror? Maybe, and I'm just throwing it out there, OBL and the Norwegian fellow where just bat shit crazy.......

[maple_leafs182]

Because they're ignorant, backward, barbarian savages who still squat and defecate in the streets and then wipe their asses with their bare hands.

Why you lend any credence to propaganda broadcasts is beyond me.

I don't think you know them at all, perhaps if you got to know them you would find out that they are not so different then you.