Thoughts Ten Years Later, September 11, 2001

[bush_cheney2004]

...You say that Leftists Are Reactionaries...I would say Rightists have their heads up their ***. Don't be afraid of knowledge.

Thankfully, Ron Paul will blow away like dust soon enough, just as he always has in previous presidential elections. I'm still waiting for "blowback" from Germany, Japan, Cuba, Grenada, Haiti, Chile, and Colombia.

[CitizenX]

Thankfully, Ron Paul will blow away like dust soon enough, just as he always has in previous presidential elections. I'm still waiting for "blowback" from Germany, Japan, Cuba, Grenada, Haiti, Chile, and Colombia.

So please...you tell me why these people attacked your country, and please don't say they hate your freedom.

[bush_cheney2004]

So please...you tell me why these people attacked your country, and please don't say they hate your freedom.

For the same political reason(s) that Timothy McVeigh attacked "my country" at OKC, or the reason for the bombing of a Bath, Michigan school in 1927 (killing 38), or an attempted LAX plot by the Millennium Bomber (Ahmed Ressam - Algerian out of Montreal, Canada), or any other of hundreds of other "terrorist" events going back to John Brown's abolitionist raid on Harper's Ferry, Virginia in 1859. Wanna add some civil rights church bombings to that mix?

The point of all this is to have you and Mr. Paul learn a little bit more about history, not histrionics. Still waiting for those Vietnamese terrorists....

Edited September 13, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[CitizenX]

For the same political reason(s) that Timothy McVeigh attacked "my country" at OKC, or the reason for the bombing of a Bath, Michigan school in 1927 (killing 38), or an attempted LAX plot by the Millennium Bomber (Ahmed Ressam - Algerian out of Montreal, Canada), or any other of hundreds of other "terrorist" events going back to John Brown's abolitionist raid on Harper's Ferry, Virginia in 1859. Wanna add some civil rights church bombings to that mix?

The point of all this is to have you and Mr. Paul learn a little bit more about history, not histrionics. Still waiting for those Vietnamese terrorists....

Nice political double speak..Give an answer without giving an answer.

[bush_cheney2004]

Nice political double speak..Give an answer without giving an answer.

The answer is there....you just don't like it, because it turns you and your love for Ron Paul upside down. Ron Paul is last decades news, and he wasn't very exciting back then either. If you must lust for a foreign politician, pick one who has a chance of actually getting nominated, let alone elected US president.

Ask Mr. Paul when the Vietnamese or Chilean terrorists are going to attack.

Edited September 13, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[CitizenX]

The answer is there....you just don't like it, because it turns you and your love for Ron Paul upside down.

I'm sorry but there is no answer there. Go ahead, Run and hide from the question.

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm sorry but there is no answer there. Go ahead, Run and hide from the question.

Sounds fair to me....as you run from reality, thinking your salvation exists in another country's election. In my best mocking, Canadian tone....how sad.

[CitizenX]

It's just sick when remembrance turns into some nationalistic celebration. What's even more disgusting is this constant notion that the US was this good little country that never did anything wrong to any other nation, and thus it was attacked purely out of some irrational, religious-fueled hatred. Baloney. Terrorism is the natural result of empire. Hijackings, bombings, shootings, labor violence, etc. doesn't just grow out of nowhere. If you want to end terrorism then stop terrorizing.

Most acts of "terrorism" are, in some ways, acts of self-defense or at least acts of trying to take back what was stolen from the "terrorists". I'm not trying to belittle the deaths that happened on 9/11, but people need to understand why those attacks happened in the first place (outrage at US support for Israel and hated Arab regimes as well as the spread of global capitalism) and take responsibility to prevent the US government and the corporations that control it from committing more atrocities that are much worse.

Edited September 13, 2011 by CitizenX

[bush_cheney2004]

It's just sick when remembrance turns into some nationalistic celebration.

Nobody is forcing you to watch the "sickening" American remembrances or memorials.

What's even more disgusting is this constant notion that the US was this good little country that never did anything wrong to any other nation, and thus it was attacked purely out of some irrational, religious-fueled hatred. Baloney.

I don't know anyone who espouses this view....like I said...still waiting for those Vietnamese and Chilean terrorist attacks on the USA. You understand that point....don't you? Frankly, I'm not sure you do.

Terrorism is the natural result of empire. Hijackings, bombings, shootings, labor violence, etc. doesn't just grow out of nowhere. If you want to end terrorism then stop terrorizing.

Nope..."terrorism" starts at home. According to you, then Canada should have been attacked long ago.

Edited September 13, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest Derek L]

Or maybe not. I caught a bit of the 9/11 commission hearings on a show the other night. A four star air force general was asked flat out, if the FAA had informed them the instant they knew the first aircraft had been hijacked would they have been able to scramble jets and intercept them before they hit the towers. He said yes, they could have.

But it wasn't normal practice to tell the military. It was normal practice to see where the plane was going, then inform the police and FBI so they could be there to surround it when it landed and the hijackers started making their demands.

If hindsight was only perfect.....Even if NORAD had of be able to intercept the airliners prior to them hitting the towers, they would have needed authorization to shoot them down. Prior to the attacks, no western leader would have granted that for a hijacked airline.

Caught an interview with a Canadian general who was talking about NORAD. He said that prior to 9/11 all of NORAD'S air defense systems were like a donut. That is, it was focused on a zone around the edges of Canadian and American air space, with almost nothing in the middle. He said that nobody had thought that was necessarily. It wasn't like the Russians were going to take off from Kansas to bomb Cheyenne Mountain, after all. Two fighters actually did scramble from near Washington to intercept the plane that went into the Pentagon, but things were so disorganized no one gave them orders, and they flew straight out to sea -- because that was their normal operating procedure, to get between Washington and the presumed direction of attack. In addition, communication between the FAA and the military was sporadic, at best. They never even told the military about flight 93, for example, the one brought down in Pennsylvania, even though they knew it was headed for Washington. The tapes of the conversations on it between the controllers and the FAA reveal the weakness and ineptitude of the FAA at that time.

Exactly Barring prior knowledge of the intended targets, it’s difficult to “defend everything”………the closest ANG fighter bases to New York city would have been Syracuse, Cape Cod and Atlantic City……

I also was watching all the docs on TV this weekend, the one thing I hadn’t know was that they had video footage of one of the hick jack teams going through security……..The guard checked him with the wand, but missed, and was visible in the footage, was what looked to be a knife in his back pocket…………it’s really easy to armchair quarterback after the fact

[Moonlight Graham]

It's just sick when remembrance turns into some nationalistic celebration.

It wasn't a nationalistic celebration, it was a nationalistic remembrance. We did similar with Jack Layton a few weeks ago.

What's even more disgusting is this constant notion that the US was this good little country that never did anything wrong to any other nation, and thus it was attacked purely out of some irrational, religious-fueled hatred. Baloney. Terrorism is the natural result of empire. Hijackings, bombings, shootings, labor violence, etc. doesn't just grow out of nowhere. If you want to end terrorism then stop terrorizing.

Most acts of "terrorism" are, in some ways, acts of self-defense or at least acts of trying to take back what was stolen from the "terrorists". I'm not trying to belittle the deaths that happened on 9/11, but people need to understand why those attacks happened in the first place (outrage at US support for Israel and hated Arab regimes as well as the spread of global capitalism) and take responsibility to prevent the US government and the corporations that control it from committing more atrocities that are much worse.

You are saying 9/11 was a result of US foreign policy in the middle-east. This is true, but only part of the explanation. 9/11 also occurred because of the radical Islamic ideology that bin Laden & al-Zawahiri believed in, which was greatly based in Qutbism (google it!). Qutbism espouses offensive jihad against enemies of "true" Islam, and was key in convincing OBL to switch focus from fighting the "near enemy" (USSR in the 80's in Afghanistan, and aposate "Islamic" leaders in the M.E. etc.) to the "far-enemy" (the "Jewish-Crusader (aka US) alliance). Bin Laden was furious when the US was allowed to station military forces in Saudi Arabia near Mecca and Medina. Al-Qaeda also seeks to spread fundamental Islam across the world & create a global fundamentalist Islamic caliphate.

You can't take blowback/US foreign policy as a reason for 9/11 without al-Qaeda's radical Islamic ideology as a reason as well. Like peas and carrots, very much inter-linked. Any book or journal article on al-Qaeda will say this.

Edited September 13, 2011 by Moonlight Graham

[jbg]

It's just sick when remembrance turns into some nationalistic celebration. What's even more disgusting is this constant notion that the US was this good little country that never did anything wrong to any other nation, and thus it was attacked purely out of some irrational, religious-fueled hatred. Baloney. Terrorism is the natural result of empire. Hijackings, bombings, shootings, labor violence, etc. doesn't just grow out of nowhere. If you want to end terrorism then stop terrorizing.

Your post is sickening.

If some group wants to fight us, let them declare war and attack our troops and forts. Only cowards attack civilians as primary targets.

[Sir Bandelot]

people need to understand why those attacks happened in the first place (outrage at US support for Israel and hated Arab regimes as well as the spread of global capitalism)

I always thought they were carried out in revenge for what was done to Iraq, as well as ideological adherence to Qutbism.

[bush_cheney2004]

Your post is sickening....

Indeed...I guess the late Jack Layton was far more important and worthy of "celebration" than 3,000 dead 'merkins, Canadians, and other nationals.

[Guest Derek L]

Indeed...I guess the late Jack Layton was far more important and worthy of "celebration" than 3,000 dead 'merkins, Canadians, and other nationals.

And I thought Paul Krugman was misguided.......

[Sir Bandelot]

Indeed...I guess the late Jack Layton was far more important and worthy of "celebration" than 3,000 dead 'merkins, Canadians, and other nationals.

How dare you people invoke Jack in this discussion. Pretty sure Jack opposed these wars.

The man was a Saint, I tell you

[Moonlight Graham]

Your post is sickening.

agreed.

[maple_leafs182]

Your post is sickening.

If some group wants to fight us, let them declare war and attack our troops and forts. Only cowards attack civilians as primary targets.

I don't see anything wrong with his post. He didn't condone their actions or anything and it's not like innocent civilians aren't being killed from these wars that preceded 9/11. The US has been actively involved in middle eastern politics for several years, the US did have it coming to them.

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't see anything wrong with his post. He didn't condone their actions or anything and it's not like innocent civilians aren't being killed from these wars that preceded 9/11. The US has been actively involved in middle eastern politics for several years, the US did have it coming to them.

Ergo....you are saying that Canada has it coming to? Should Iraqis, or Serbs, or Haitians, or Afghans bomb Toronto or Ottawa or Vancouver because they deserve it? Do tell....

[maple_leafs182]

Ergo....you are saying that Canada has it coming to? Should Iraqis, or Serbs, or Haitians, or Afghans bomb Toronto or Ottawa or Vancouver because they deserve it? Do tell....

I am not saying they should, I am saying that if we continue to go on killing people and messing with the politics of other countries then we should expect hatred in return and the possibility of violent retaliation.

[bush_cheney2004]

I am not saying they should, I am saying that if we continue to go on killing people and messing with the politics of other countries then we should expect hatred in return and the possibility of violent retaliation.

"If we continue"? What do you think Canada has been doing all these years? You are back pedaling...fast.

[maple_leafs182]

"If we continue"? What do you think Canada has been doing all these years? You are back pedaling...fast.

I don't understand.

[jacee]

Ten years ago tomorrow, some incredibly evil people made a senseless attack on the United States, killing approximately 3000 people, for no good reason.

In the past I have attributed some of this evil to Islam and have been taken to task for it. I have concluded that the problem is not primarily Islam. It is the wanton and savage tribal cultures that predated Islam. The cultures have persisted despite, not because of, the advent of Islam.

...

These people, not the Americans, Europeans or Israelis are the ones that must learn restraint.

If this restraint is not shown, and there are more outrages, even the hard left will need to concede the need for total warfare. This would be a tragedy since many innocent will die. We need not sit there helplessly and be killed.

"Total warfare" against whom?

You've lost me ...

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't understand.

I think you do understand, but won't commit yourself to your own ideology when it means actually attacking Canada. Here is a list of official soft targets in Canada....note how many are subsidiaries of American corporations:

   Plasma Sanofi Pasteur Ltd.
   Toronto,
   - Polio virus vaccine
   GlaxoSmithKile Biologicals,
   Quebec,
   - Pre-pandemic influenza vaccines
   Chalk River Nuclear Facility,
   Ontario
   - Largest supplier of medical radioisotopes in the world
   Allied Signal,
   Amherstburg, Ontario
   - Hydrofluoric Acid Production Facility
   General Dynamics Land Systems
   London Ontario
   - Critical to the production of the Stryker/USMC LAV Vehicle Integration
   Raytheon Systems Canada Ltd. ELCAN Optical Technologies Division, Midland, Ontario
   - Critical to the production of the AGM-130
   Missile Thales Optronique Canada, Inc.
   Montreal, Quebec
   - Critical optical systems for ground combat vehicles

If you actually believe that the US "had it coming", then admit to the very same for Canada...if you dare.

Edited September 13, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest Derek L]

I think you do understand, but won't commit yourself to your own ideology when it means actually attacking Canada. Here is a list of official soft targets in Canada....note how many are subsidiaries of American corporations:

   Plasma Sanofi Pasteur Ltd.
   Toronto,
   - Polio virus vaccine
   GlaxoSmithKile Biologicals,
   Quebec,
   - Pre-pandemic influenza vaccines
   Chalk River Nuclear Facility,
   Ontario
   - Largest supplier of medical radioisotopes in the world
   Allied Signal,
   Amherstburg, Ontario
   - Hydrofluoric Acid Production Facility
   General Dynamics Land Systems
   London Ontario
   - Critical to the production of the Stryker/USMC LAV Vehicle Integration
   Raytheon Systems Canada Ltd. ELCAN Optical Technologies Division, Midland, Ontario
   - Critical to the production of the AGM-130
   Missile Thales Optronique Canada, Inc.
   Montreal, Quebec
   - Critical optical systems for ground combat vehicles

Just like a typical Canadian political debate, the West gets left out……

Add anything related to our oil and gas industry…………..Or Hydro electric dams in BC and Quebec……

Attacks on these wouldn’t only hurt Canada, but the Great Satan also.