UN calls israeli raid 'excessive', 'unreasonable' and

[jacee]

Make a noise that disrupts the propellers?

Or speak Hebrew real loud

Or shut your stupid mouth.

You are over the line.

Now there is a truly anti-Jew remark on this board. Twit.

Edited September 14, 2011 by jacee

[Bob]

Of course I think the blockade is unjust; further, we've had this discussion before, in which you asked me the same question and received the selfsame answer.

I don't know what's more irritating: your assumption that a difference of opinion on the blockade is an automatic delineation of anti-Jewish bigotry...or the fact that you self-evidently do not read my posts...even as you respond to them.

I must have forgotten, it was a long time ago. Anyways, your position is essentially - Israel's self-defense is unjust. I cannot fathom how someone can suggest that a blockade to reduce the smuggling of arms into Gaza is somehow "unjust". Apparently allowing "Palestinians" to legally import their favourite brands of chocolate supersedes Israel's right to reduce the amount of arms that get into Gaza that are used to murder Jews and other Israelis.

[Bob]

You also don't support the Palestinians getting their own state. You think if Gaza and the West Bank were absorbed into Egypt and Jordan, that that would solve Israels issues? Really? .... Really?

In my view, Israel seems more willing to continue the occupation (and risk the inherent dangers of an occupation) rather than letting the Palestinians have their own state/country.

There is no perfect solution to Israel's security problems because you cannot reform a society/culture. These Arabs/Muslims are who they are, they want what they want, and they do what they do. As long as they live in our midst and around us, we will always need vigilance to protect ourselves. Again, there is no solution to this problem, only management of it and reduction of the harm it causes us.

Lastly, you're insinuating that "Palestinian" terrorism is a product of the "occupation", when even a cursory examination of the history of this region illustrates plenty of anti-Jewish hatred predating 1967 by almost a century. The aftermath of the Six-Day War simply provided these Arabs/Muslims with another grievance upon which to build heir animosity.

[bloodyminded]

I must have forgotten, it was a long time ago. Anyways, your position is essentially - Israel's self-defense is unjust.

If the radicalized reactionaries among us are to determine the exact parameters of all discussion; if those who, totalitarian-style, brook zero dissent from their elevated and simple-perfect worldviews are the debate-mappers; and if these folks are to circumscribe everyone's premises, as defined by an assumption of unfit conclusions about the performances of nation-states; then yes, under these narrow circumstances your assertion could only be correct. But then, that's by tautology, isn't it?

Edited September 14, 2011 by bloodyminded

[Bob]

You often type a lot, but say nothing.

[GostHacked]

There is no perfect solution to Israel's security problems because you cannot reform a society/culture. These Arabs/Muslims are who they are, they want what they want, and they do what they do. As long as they live in our midst and around us, we will always need vigilance to protect ourselves. Again, there is no solution to this problem, only management of it and reduction of the harm it causes us.

You can't exactly put the blame on them 100%. It always takes two.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123275572295011847.html

"Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel's creation," says Mr. Cohen, a Tunisian-born Jew who worked in Gaza for more than two decades. Responsible for religious affairs in the region until 1994, Mr. Cohen watched the Islamist movement take shape, muscle aside secular Palestinian rivals and then morph into what is today Hamas, a militant group that is sworn to Israel's destruction.

Lastly, you're insinuating that "Palestinian" terrorism is a product of the "occupation", when even a cursory examination of the history of this region illustrates plenty of anti-Jewish hatred predating 1967 by almost a century. The aftermath of the Six-Day War simply provided these Arabs/Muslims with another grievance upon which to build heir animosity.

If I don't like bears, and I know bears are violent and want to kill me, why would I build a home in the forest infested by bears? Would that not just be more problems for me than the bear?

[Bob]

You can't exactly put the blame on them 100%. It always takes two.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123275572295011847.html

If I don't like bears, and I know bears are violent and want to kill me, why would I build a home in the forest infested by bears? Would that not just be more problems for me than the bear?

Bears can be managed. Most importantly, this is our home, and clearly worth fighting for.

[GostHacked]

Bears can be managed. Most importantly, this is our home, and clearly worth fighting for.

So are you going to keep managing the bears and cry foul every time a bear attacks you? Or do you decide .. hmmm maybe I should not make my home here, there should be another safer place. I know you feel you have ancient historical ties to the place, but the people Israel is systematically displacing (one method through these settlements) is completely ignoring their historical ties to the land as well.

You obviously value Jews more than anyone else, so the bears now become second class citizens in the land they have been living on for decades .. centuries? Your ancient historical ties are so ancient, that no modern living Jew has any real ties to those ancient lands anymore than the current residents. I'll blame religion for that. Without religion (on both sides) there would not no claim to the land at all and a good chance none of this would have manifested the way it has.

Yes Israel takes the stance of 'never again', but at what cost? Israel can no longer claim innocence or foul anymore because of their long standing policies towards evicting the remaining Palestinians, at the same time, making it extremely difficult for them to actually make any progress because of the long standing occupation and Israel's policy of not letting them get a homeland. So, please continue the occupation and systematic genocide. Obviously Israel is the 'bigger man' here by doing so.

I also noticed you had not countered or even mentioned the article I linked indicating that Israel created it's own problem by supporting and actually helping Hamas in the first place.

[bud]

Bears can be managed. Most importantly, this is our home, and clearly worth fighting for.

west bank, gaza and east jerusalem is not your home.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Lastly, you're insinuating that "Palestinian" terrorism is a product of the "occupation", when even a cursory examination of the history of this region illustrates plenty of anti-Jewish hatred predating 1967 by almost a century. The aftermath of the Six-Day War simply provided these Arabs/Muslims with another grievance upon which to build heir animosity.

That's certainly true, and now we are seeing a move towards non-violent protest by Palestinians after having that failed strategy for over 40 years.

[bloodyminded]

You often type a lot, but say nothing.

If my post said nothing, then yours must have been less than zero.

[bloodyminded]

That's certainly true, and now we are seeing a move towards non-violent protest by Palestinians after having that failed strategy for over 40 years.

The non-violent protest, if anything, enrages folks like Bob even moreso.

[Bob]

So are you going to keep managing the bears and cry foul every time a bear attacks you? Or do you decide .. hmmm maybe I should not make my home here, there should be another safer place. I know you feel you have ancient historical ties to the place, but the people Israel is systematically displacing (one method through these settlements) is completely ignoring their historical ties to the land as well.

You obviously value Jews more than anyone else, so the bears now become second class citizens in the land they have been living on for decades .. centuries? Your ancient historical ties are so ancient, that no modern living Jew has any real ties to those ancient lands anymore than the current residents. I'll blame religion for that. Without religion (on both sides) there would not no claim to the land at all and a good chance none of this would have manifested the way it has.

Yes Israel takes the stance of 'never again', but at what cost? Israel can no longer claim innocence or foul anymore because of their long standing policies towards evicting the remaining Palestinians, at the same time, making it extremely difficult for them to actually make any progress because of the long standing occupation and Israel's policy of not letting them get a homeland. So, please continue the occupation and systematic genocide. Obviously Israel is the 'bigger man' here by doing so.

I also noticed you had not countered or even mentioned the article I linked indicating that Israel created it's own problem by supporting and actually helping Hamas in the first place.

I choose not to reply to most of what you say, because it's tiresome and nonsensical.

Essentially, your position boils down to this - if people start acting up like bears, then we should leave. In other words, if we live in the midst of barbarians, why are we choosing to live here? That perspective is beyond stupid, and unworthy of serious consideration or response. Basically, you're giving the power to the animals to determine how affairs will pan out. No thanks, but we'll define our own destiny on our own terms.

[Bob]

That's certainly true, and now we are seeing a move towards non-violent protest by Palestinians after having that failed strategy for over 40 years.

What fantasy world are you living in? When did the violence ever subside? They're still regularly engaging in terrorism. You're making things up again. How far back do you think I have to go to find anti-Israel/anti-Semitic terrorism inside Israel or abroad? An hour? A day? Please, this lie about the "Palestinians" mobilizing towards "peaceful protests" is ridiculous. It's not happening, so stop pretending that it is.

[GostHacked]

I choose not to reply to most of what you say, because it's tiresome and nonsensical.

Or you simply cannot refute most of what I posted? Fair enough.

Essentially, your position boils down to this - if people start acting up like bears, then we should leave. In other words, if we live in the midst of barbarians, why are we choosing to live here? That perspective is beyond stupid, and unworthy of serious consideration or response. Basically, you're giving the power to the animals to determine how affairs will pan out. No thanks, but we'll define our own destiny on our own terms.

Seems to me that you need to reply to the rest of what I posted. Good deflection though.

[Bob]

Consider yourself fortunate that I even indulge you with a reply once in awhile. I certainly don't have the patience to refute your assertions and follow you down your road of nonsense. You have nothing to contribute on these issues besides commentary predicated on a flawed perspective of all parties of this conflict being of equal guilt. Although sometimes you're courageous enough to take a position and lay more blame on and criticism towards Israel. Bravo.

[GostHacked]

Consider yourself fortunate that I even indulge you with a reply once in awhile.

Yes, I am honoured that a self admitted genocidal poster replies to my posts.

I certainly don't have the patience to refute your assertions and follow you down your road of nonsense.

Sounds like a cop out to me.

You have nothing to contribute on these issues besides commentary predicated on a flawed perspective of all parties of this conflict being of equal guilt.

Well both sides share responsibility for this current problem. If you are not willing to at least admit Israel is also partly responsible for the current problem, the situation will never be resolved. Do you think calling for genocide of the Palestinians is helpful at all in resolving the situation? I know you personally have advocated for that in the past. That is something you cannot deny.

Although sometimes you're courageous enough to take a position and lay more blame on and criticism towards Israel. Bravo.

Well, those who want to claim higher moral ground should actually be standing on it instead of wallowing in the mud with the bears.

Edited September 14, 2011 by GostHacked