Britain's liberal intelligentsia has smashed virtually every socia

eyeball · August 16, 2011

So what do we do with all these young men who are shiftless and rootless?

I'm not sure yet but what I do know with fairly absolute certainty is that the vengeful mean-spirited moralism the conservative intelligentsia seems determined to weight the solution with is really really stupid.

One truly has to go way out of their way to be an asshole to think this is the right way to go.

Thorn · August 16, 2011

I'm not sure yet but what I do know with fairly absolute certainty is that the vengeful mean-spirited moralism the conservative intelligentsia seems determined to weight the solution with is really really stupid.

One truly has to go way out of their way to be an asshole to think this is the right way to go.

Well, the left has had twenty or more years to work things into the ground. I rather doubt more public assistance, more understanding, more helpful smiles and tepid lectures is going to produce a whole lot of value. Strict discipline is one method for instilling acceptable behaviour in young men, and it does have a historical pattern of preserving public order. I think that young men have to be found work, no matter what it is, and if necessary they need to be compelled to work. I don't care if it's cutting weeds or building highways. Something has to be found for them to do short of a national military draft, which we no longer want or need. We can't have gangs of rootless young men roaming about smashing things and attacking people. We seem perpetually short of construction type workers. Why is that? Much of that work would seem ideal for the low brow set. If they can't be enticed into getting off their sofas and going to work then they must be made to do so.

jbg · August 16, 2011

Actually, the "unprecedented and horrific scenes of mob violence, with homes and businesses going up in flames, and epidemic looting" in no invalidate the assessment of people like the writer and the OP as right-wing nutters who wanted to turn the clock back to some mythical golden age.

Is rioting and destruction left-wing or progressive?

GostHacked · August 16, 2011

Is rioting and destruction left-wing or progressive?

Both.

jbg · August 16, 2011

Both.

Sort of like creative destruction (link)?

eyeball · August 16, 2011

If they can't be enticed into getting off their sofas and going to work then they must be made to do so.

Okay.

Do you intend to entice the rich to contribute more taxes to pay for all this employment or force them to do so?

GostHacked · August 16, 2011

Sort of like creative destruction (link)?

The destruction is not a left right thing as much as the problems of our countries are not a left right thing. It's us against our governments who are taking away our rights, our free speech, and using fear to coerce us into a fearful way of thinking, all at the same time the government is telling us they can protect us.

Black Dog · August 16, 2011

Is rioting and destruction left-wing or progressive?

Relevance?

Shwa · August 16, 2011

Okay.

Do you intend to entice the rich to contribute more taxes to pay for all this employment or force them to do so?

Entice the rich? LOFL!

No, put them on public projects and effectively tax the middle class to pay for it, the British way. Mind you, they should take a look at Canada and our public project solution: more prisons and more military hardware. Then when you knock at their door and rouse them off the chesterfield, they will have the freedom of making a choice.

jbg · August 16, 2011

Actually, the "unprecedented and horrific scenes of mob violence, with homes and businesses going up in flames, and epidemic looting" in no invalidate the assessment of people like the writer and the OP as right-wing nutters who wanted to turn the clock back to some mythical golden age.

Is rioting and destruction left-wing or progressive?

Relevance?

You made an unguided and irrelevant attack on the right. My point is that rioting hurts everyone, especially the poor people whose few opportunities for employment are diminished and whose already shabby neighborhoods are further blighted.

jbg · August 16, 2011

Great contribution. WestViking doesn't come here often but when he does it's always great.

Yeah you'd fit right in on WestViking's other forum Freak Dominion. Not sure why this wacko has to come here to post his comedy articles, though.

I really didn't and wouldn't fit in on Freedominion. Though I think highly of Connie and Mark, FD's organizers, and WestViking as an FD poster, I am not particularly interested in social issues. I am more into economic and foreign policy issues.

Sir Bandelot · August 16, 2011

I won't step in and say, this is a left vs. right problem, but stupid choices have been made, and many of them involve empowering the state over individuals. Example, apparently I am not allowed to spank my children. We must use only positive reinforcement, encouragement, never "corporal" punishment. Such "liberal" methods might be easy for someone to understand who already knows right vs. wrong, but children's brains are not matured enough, and they often try things, push things to explore the consequences. When they find out that they will receive little or no punishment beyond a scolding or raised tone in Mom's voice, the effect is only temporary. TO make matters worse, they teach this to the kids in school, that if your mom or dad spanks you, you can call the police. I remember when my kids came home one day and told us that, although they've rarely received a spanking in their lifetime. n this case they were challenging us to do something we didn't want them to di, and wanted to see our reaction.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2008/jun/08061909

I understand that some people take this form of punishment too far, but in doing so the state has taken away my parental authority.

And when they grow up to a more rebellious age, this is what we see happening here...

Edited August 16, 2011 by Sir Bandelot

Black Dog · August 16, 2011

You made an unguided and irrelevant attack on the right.

No, I was responding a unguided and risible attack on the "liberal intelligentsia". Or did you not bother reading the piece you were praising?

My point is that rioting hurts everyone, especially the poor people whose few opportunities for employment are diminished and whose already shabby neighborhoods are further blighted.

Which has little do do with the subject of this thread, which is to what extent liberal/left policies contributed to the conditions in which these riots occurred.

GostHacked · August 16, 2011

I won't step in and say, this is a left vs. right problem, but stupid choices have been made, and many of them involve empowering the state over individuals. Example, apparently I am not allowed to spank my children. We must use only positive reinforcement, encouragement, never "corporal" punishment.

Good post.

My cousin who is a school teacher is frustrated with the way kids are just allowed to be given a pass. My aunt who is retired and was a school teacher as well said the same things to me. The quality of the education is going down and kids are allowed just to move on to the next grade without even making the criteria to pass. That student is allowed to pass anyways. That all helps create this problem you are talking about here.

Such "liberal" methods might be easy for someone to understand who already knows right vs. wrong, but children's brains are not matured enough, and they often try things, push things to explore the consequences. When they find out that they will receive little or no punishment beyond a scolding or raised tone in Mom's voice, the effect is only temporary. TO make matters worse, they teach this to the kids in school, that if your mom or dad spanks you, you can call the police. I remember when my kids came home one day and told us that, although they've rarely received a spanking in their lifetime. n this case they were challenging us to do something we didn't want them to di, and wanted to see our reaction.

I agree.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2008/jun/08061909
I understand that some people take this form of punishment too far, but in doing so the state has taken away my parental authority.

And when they grow up to a more rebellious age, this is what we see happening here...

Yes some parents take it too far, and some not far enough. I don't object to punishment like spanking, at a young age, you don't really think about why it is wrong, you just know that if you do X, you will get spanked, which then gets them thinking a little more proactively about the consequences of their actions.

bud · August 16, 2011

I am. Progress is dependent upon public safety. Why build what would be immediately destroyed?

you may claim to be a radical leftist lawyer, but your posts never reflect that.

Thorn · August 16, 2011

Okay.

Do you intend to entice the rich to contribute more taxes to pay for all this employment or force them to do so?

I am in favour of taxes on the rich being raised, but I don't think it's the same problem here as it is in the US. I do think there are too many tax loopholes, though, and I think mostly the rich can take advantage of those. They should be closed.

I don't see how taxes are an issue related to this discussion, however. The issue is the mass of shiftless young men who have nothing to do. Such a crowd will always be trouble. If we're going to pay to support them then we need to get something back from them in the way of an honest day's labour.

Thorn · August 16, 2011

you may claim to be a radical leftist lawyer, but your posts never reflect that.

He's an American. Anyone who believes in public health care is considered a radical leftist down there.

dre · August 16, 2011

I won't step in and say, this is a left vs. right problem, but stupid choices have been made, and many of them involve empowering the state over individuals. Example, apparently I am not allowed to spank my children. We must use only positive reinforcement, encouragement, never "corporal" punishment.

Iv never heard of anyone getting in trouble for spanking their children in a normal way. But you still need laws around it, because you if allow corporal punishment, then lots of people will take it too far, and we wont be able to do anything about it.

Nobody gives a shit if you spank your kids, those laws are there though if you do serious damage, or are a pattern child abuser.

Sir Bandelot · August 17, 2011

Nobody gives a shit if you spank your kids, those laws are there though if you do serious damage, or are a pattern child abuser.

The law does not clearly define the boundaries of acceptable vs. unacceptable. But having said that I don't believe this to be the only reason for problems we have with youth today. It's just one example, IMO. Sure, lots of parents probably still spank their kids. But now primarily out of view of the public eye.

Really the point is more the perception kids have about authority. Authority is seen as self-serving and hypocritical. As such it holds no real sway over the "me" generation.

Second, the future is a life-long yoke with no final reward. Youth enjoy almost unbound freedom for about 20 years, then face the prospect of spending the rest of their life working in a meaningless job, in subservience to a boss who's not only mentally inferior, but a bully, and a selfish asshole.

capricorn · August 17, 2011

Iv never heard of anyone getting in trouble for spanking their children in a normal way.

I have personal knowledge of such a case. It's not spanking per se but physical discipline nonetheless. An 8 year old boy was on a weekend visit with his father. The boy pulled the collar of another kid's sweater to the point of hurting the child. The father did the same to his 8 year old and asked him how he liked it done to him. The 8 year old called his mom to complain his father hurt him. Let's just say the child in question was looking for attention. The mother charged the father with child abuse and it went to trial. The judge ruled the father's disciplinary action was justifiable and reasonable under the circumstances. Stuff like this happens dre.

Shwa · August 17, 2011

Really the point is more the perception kids have about authority. Authority is seen as self-serving and hypocritical. As such it holds no real sway over the "me" generation.

A typical generational observation. I mean, how does each generation manage to survive the sheer decadence of their disobedient, good for nothing children? Well... they don't actually...

Second, the future is a life-long yoke with no final reward. Youth enjoy almost unbound freedom for about 20 years, then face the prospect of spending the rest of their life working in a meaningless job, in subservience to a boss who's not only mentally inferior, but a bully, and a selfish asshole.

Whoa, SB. Are you talking about "youth" or your present work situation?

Oleg Bach · August 17, 2011

It is actually harsh high archy capitalism that uses socialism to run off the fathers of the misfit kids...in the hope of creating some sort of fatherless slave race - for the future...apparently the state or the powers that be do not have the time to train these young people to serve them--It takes one man - one father to influence a son - not one mother and the state as a husband that does not love the son.

Sir Bandelot · August 17, 2011

A typical generational observation. I mean, how does each generation manage to survive the sheer decadence of their disobedient, good for nothing children? Well... they don't actually..

That criticism is mainly directed at authority, not youth.

Today we are just beginning to understand the meaning of the rights of the individual, vs. the rights of the collective. The rights of the individual are precious because the person is temporal, while the collective lasts "forever". The corporation never dies, therefore all things that it amasses over time it can keep forever and its power constantly increases. While we human beings only have a short time and will soon cease to be. So the rights of the individual must be regarded as supreme. Simply put, the corporation can wait. But we are not at the point yet where we regard people as precious.

I'm talking about how young people instinctively know what's coming for them. They might look to their docile burned out parents who've spent the majority of their life working in a job that has no direct meaning for them, other than to make some money that they get to spend supporting themselves to come back another day, and an occasional brief "vacation". Youth are smarter now than they've ever been. By that I mean, they know about the news. They have a bleak outlook on the system which is obviously corrupt and unfair. There was a report just yesterday, 'assholes on the job get more pay'... what is that saying about our workplace, where we spend most of our days? It's not about recognizing the value of individual human beings, but a place where meanness, deception and pettiness rule the day. That is the personality that succeeds.

->Whoa, SB. Are you talking about "youth" or your present work situation?

From a youthful perspective: "You've had a fun life so far little Johnny, now it's time to get in your CAGE! By the time you get out you'll be old, burned out, docile, like your mom and dad. Your life will be a complete waste of time. Oh and by the way the greedy elite class, whose life is virtually one long vacation will be telling you what to do. They're getting rich and you'll never have a chance to be like them because they've got the money, they got the power and they'll see to it that you never get a chance."

The answer to that has to be, a rock smashed through a window. Smash it, grab it, and burn it!

Oleg Bach · August 17, 2011

When men what power they systemically get rid of any competion - or authority - This is a very old way of doing things. "Get rid of the male head of the household and the woman will follow - in turn the child will follow the mother" - It's barn yard politics - totally disrespectful of the tradtional family unit. Destroy the family and you destroy the nation. This is what happens - the family is the building block - you take out a few blocks from the foundation and the whole castle comes down.

Wild Bill · August 17, 2011

I've never understood how all these "drama queens" got the idea that rich people and corporations are deliberately "keeping them down". In reality, rich people and corporations never think of people as individuals! They think of them as markets. If you are not in their market demographic then you are irrelevant to them.

So what's really going on is that some poor folks are buying into the idea of 'entitlement', where they think they are poor because someeone is stealing their share.

Now, there are some pretty huge assumptions here. First off, where is it written that there is some big bag of goodies and a system that doles it out to each individual? Far as I know, there is no such bag! We fill our OWN bag with the products of our own work! If we don't work, the bag stays empty.

If there is no job for someone with our skill sets, it is up to us to upgrade our skill sets. We can't expect a company to stay in business building buggy whips forever.

If everyone who complains about China having stolen so many jobs took the trouble to read the label on that can of beans they buy at the supermarket and stop buying Chinese products then a lot of those jobs would come back! Sure, it's not always easy to avoid Chinese stuff but it's not a case of a perfect boycott or nothing! A sincere effort will change things dramatically!

Second, it seems to be human nature to favour a conspiracy as an explanation for not having something. We don't have free power because "someone" is hiding Tesla's notes. "Someone" is hiding the secret of a 200 mpg carburetor. "Someone" is keeping me poor.

A conspiracy means someone is in control of the situation and therefore could possibly be induced, by force or if necessary coercion, to change their mind. As opposed to no one being in control except yourself. That would mean you can't argue or force someone. You have to do it all yourself.

Lastly, if a conspiracy is aimed at you then you must be important in some way. If no one cares the blow to one's self-worth seems more than most of us can stand! There must be a stage where we can feel important! No stage, no drama, no sense of self-worth.

As I said, it's just human nature.