American seeks Canandian refuge

[bush_cheney2004]

Why is anyone bragging about Canadian immigrants to the USA? Have you been living under a rock for the past 4 years? Canadians are buying up discount US property while laid off US bankers and finance professionals are emigrating to Canada. The trend is clearly in the opposite direction nowadays.

Canadians have always emigrated to the USA in great numbers, far fewer going the other way. Even most of the draft dodgers came home. Buy all the property you want, it's for sale on the cheap. Years later, they become US citizens.

[Bryan]

"One of the things" one would consider is quite different from "the primary reason" for making a move.

Even though almost all of my business is in the United States, the healthcare system down there is certainly the primary reason why I'd never move there.

[Guest American Woman]

Even though almost all of my business is in the United States, the healthcare system down there is certainly the primary reason why I'd never move there.

I don't know what point you think you're making, but interesting that while DejectedAmerican feels the job market is hopeless for him, you, a Canadian, have almost all of your business in the United States. Thing is, though, if you did try to move here, you may very well find that not being allowed to might be the primary reason you'd never move here.

[Guest American Woman]

Why is anyone bragging about Canadian immigrants to the USA? Have you been living under a rock for the past 4 years? Canadians are buying up discount US property while laid off US bankers and finance professionals are emigrating to Canada. The trend is clearly in the opposite direction nowadays.

Ummmm if Canadians are buying property in the U.S., how in the trend clearly in the opposite direction? FYI, Canada still has a net loss - more Canadians move to the U.S. than the other way around. That's just stating it the way it is - not "bragging."

[Guest American Woman]

The most glaring impact on the diferences in demographics (besides the obvious ones like Climate and the fact that the US is much much larger in area when you look at arable land) is this... US has a 25.3% higher birth rate. Canadians use more birth control.

And that's a problem - you may be making up the difference in immigration, but with immigrants earning significantly less than Canadians born in Canada, you have less tax money going into the system to service the same number of people.

[Bonam]

Even though almost all of my business is in the United States, the healthcare system down there is certainly the primary reason why I'd never move there.

If you're engaging in international business, you really shouldn't have any problem affording health care in the US. And for those who can afford it, US health care is every bit as good as Canadian if not better. So how is it a reason not to move there?

[Bryan]

if you did try to move here, you may very well find that not being allowed to might be the primary reason you'd never move here.

I've had offers where all of that was already arranged, I'm just not interested.

[Speedy von Vloppen]

If you're engaging in international business, you really shouldn't have any problem affording health care in the US. And for those who can afford it, US health care is every bit as good as Canadian if not better. So how is it a reason not to move there?

It's not just an issue of being able to afford health insurance. Many Americans work hard to be able to obtain insurance, only to be thrown off insurance rolls after they get sick in a process known as "recision." For years American health insurance companies have used it to keep the unhealthy off their insurance rolls and therefore keep their profits as high as possible. It's been outlawed by the new health care law that President Obama signed, but the far-right extremists of the Republican Party have vowed to repeal the law. If they're successful, the system reverts back to the way it was, and you can find yourself uninsured even if you've paid into health insurance for years. Also, even if you've got health insurance in the United States, it almost never is 100 percent coverage. It's typical for an insurer to cover 80% of the cost of treatment. With the high costs of treatment, that 20% that you're responsible for can add up fast. Many of the Americans who end up filing for medical bankruptcies are ones who had health insurance. I'm one of them. I'm another frustrated American considering relocation to Canada. I'm here on this board for the purpose of learning about the country.

The right in the United States has become politically extreme. If you take a conservative in Canada and put him into the United States, he'd be viewed as a leftist. For example, I advocate a German-style health care system in the US. I previously lived in Germany, and their system works well. Theirs is a multi-payer one. The government has created numerous public option health insurance companies, and there are also private insurers unfunded by the government. A German citizen (or legally residing foreigner as was the case with me) is required to purchase an insurance plan. The various plans cover 100 percent of essential care. As you would expect, the private plans include more amenities. For example, a person on private insurance might be able to get a private hospital room while a person on a public plan would need to share a room. I was fine with giving people the choice between public or private insurance like they do in Germany. However, my support of any kind of universal health insurance gets me branded a far-left socialist in the US. I suspect, my position is not considered that in Canada. If anything, I'm probably right of center there.

The point is, the right in the USA is extreme and is holding the country back. If they're successful in duping the American public, a repeal of Obama's modest health care reforms is a real possibility. Even if it's not repealed, the reforms weren't far-reaching enough to prevent an American from being grossly under-insured and incurring enough medical bills to be forced into bankruptcy.

And that's why I'm here researching if I want to consider a move to Canada. There are other options. I could go back to Germany. Australia is also possibility.

[wyly]

It's not just an issue of being able to afford health insurance. Many Americans work hard to be able to obtain insurance, only to be thrown off insurance rolls after they get sick in a process known as "recision." For years American health insurance companies have used it to keep the unhealthy off their insurance rolls and therefore keep their profits as high as possible. It's been outlawed by the new health care law that President Obama signed, but the far-right extremists of the Republican Party have vowed to repeal the law. If they're successful, the system reverts back to the way it was, and you can find yourself uninsured even if you've paid into health insurance for years. Also, even if you've got health insurance in the United States, it almost never is 100 percent coverage. It's typical for an insurer to cover 80% of the cost of treatment. With the high costs of treatment, that 20% that you're responsible for can add up fast. Many of the Americans who end up filing for medical bankruptcies are ones who had health insurance. I'm one of them. I'm another frustrated American considering relocation to Canada. I'm here on this board for the purpose of learning about the country.

The right in the United States has become politically extreme. If you take a conservative in Canada and put him into the United States, he'd be viewed as a leftist. For example, I advocate a German-style health care system in the US. I previously lived in Germany, and their system works well. Theirs is a multi-payer one. The government has created numerous public option health insurance companies, and there are also private insurers unfunded by the government. A German citizen (or legally residing foreigner as was the case with me) is required to purchase an insurance plan. The various plans cover 100 percent of essential care. As you would expect, the private plans include more amenities. For example, a person on private insurance might be able to get a private hospital room while a person on a public plan would need to share a room. I was fine with giving people the choice between public or private insurance like they do in Germany. However, my support of any kind of universal health insurance gets me branded a far-left socialist in the US. I suspect, my position is not considered that in Canada. If anything, I'm probably right of center there.

The point is, the right in the USA is extreme and is holding the country back. If they're successful in duping the American public, a repeal of Obama's modest health care reforms is a real possibility. Even if it's not repealed, the reforms weren't far-reaching enough to prevent an American from being grossly under-insured and incurring enough medical bills to be forced into bankruptcy.

And that's why I'm here researching if I want to consider a move to Canada. There are other options. I could go back to Germany. Australia is also possibility.

nice post...

even with my public healthcare I have the option to private insurance, which I also have...and I can also upgrade my care if I wish to pay extra such as a private room, TV etc...despite the whining our system works very well, there will always be problems to solve and improvements to be made but we have little to complain about...

ya, you would definitely right of center here...

[Speedy von Vloppen]

nice post...

even with my public healthcare I have the option to private insurance, which I also have...and I can also upgrade my care if I wish to pay extra such as a private room, TV etc...despite the whining our system works very well, there will always be problems to solve and improvements to be made but we have little to complain about...

ya, you would definitely right of center here...

However, the private insurance is supplemental in Canada, correct? In other words you're on Canadian Medicare, but you can put private insurance on top of it in order to get more benefits. In Germany, it's different. If you purchase private insurance, you get that instead of one of the public options and then the private insurance covers everything. It's essentially opting out of being on public insurance.

I would be thrilled if the USA got either a German-style or a Canadian-style health insurance system. Both countries do a much, much better job of covering people.

[Guest American Woman]

I would be thrilled if the USA got either a German-style or a Canadian-style health insurance system. Both countries do a much, much better job of covering people.

They may do a better job of covering people, but how good a job they do providing treatment is another issue.

[wyly]

However, the private insurance is supplemental in Canada, correct? In other words you're on Canadian Medicare, but you can put private insurance on top of it in order to get more benefits. In Germany, it's different. If you purchase private insurance, you get that instead of one of the public options and then the private insurance covers everything. It's essentially opting out of being on public insurance.

yes it is supplemental where I live, but I'm no expert on other provinces...everyone has the same basic coverage, if I want extra I can buy it...if we use longevity as the base line of comparison between countries Canada is at 81.38 and Germany is 80.7, USA 78.37...

I would be thrilled if the USA got either a German-style or a Canadian-style health insurance system. Both countries do a much, much better job of covering people.

it seems a no brainer to me but it appears the mindset of rightwing ideologues is a major obstacle to change, they're as radical/fanatical/illogical as those red book waving Maoists we used to see in china decades ago......

[Speedy von Vloppen]

yes it is supplemental where I live, but I'm no expert on other provinces...everyone has the same basic coverage, if I want extra I can buy it...if we use longevity as the base line of comparison between countries Canada is at 81.38 and Germany is 80.7, USA 78.37...

it seems a no brainer to me but it appears the mindset of rightwing ideologues is a major obstacle to change, they're as radical/fanatical/illogical as those red book waving Maoists we used to see in china decades ago......

It would seem so. Back in the 70s, the goal of American liberals was to get a single-payer system like they have in Canada. Richard Nixon proposed an alternative, which is a lot like a German-style multi-payer one. Nixon's plan would have set up a single public option that you could choose if you wanted to and pay for based on a sliding scale depending on your income. If you didn't choose that, you would have to be fully insured with private insurance. Nixon's plan also included small co-pays. He didn't believe you should be able to go to the doctor and not pay anything out of pocket. However, the co-pays were to be small so that anyone could afford it. Unfortunately, Nixon never came to an agreement with liberals. He got mired down with the Watergate scandal and was forced to leave office early.

Nixon pissed off a lot of Americans in the way he handled the Vietnam War. He didn't start it, but many felt the way he handled it escalated it. Plus, he infuriated people by calling anti-war protesters, "bums." At the time, he was seen as very right-wing. Today, his policies come across as on the left. Obama's health care law is far to the right of Nixon's. Yet, he's branded a far-left socialist. That shows how far to the right the USA has moved. I'm alarmed by it in the same way I might be alarmed if I were living in Germany post World War I. That's a big reason why I'm thinking maybe I'd better just get out.

[wyly]

That's a big reason why I'm thinking maybe I'd better just get out.

there are lots of reasons to emigrate politics is as good as any other, you'll be one of tens millions who have done so for the same reason...not much culture shock coming here you'll have no trouble blending in...