Oleg Bach Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 A while ago a heard of one of the meanings of the word jubilee. In ancient times every 50 years there would be a celebration. On the fifty year mark from the last jubilee..All debts and I mean absolutely all debt was erased. The economy would then start from scratch - from zero! What would the effects be if we tried this today? Of course those with the most money and those who held the largest planetary debts would not like the idea. This rich and powerful all deserving bunch of people would be replelled by the idea. Most of those holding the worlds debts are in my estimation social and economic Darwinists. If they think they are so superiour I am sure they could naturally build themselves up to their present stature seeing that they are so deserving and live in a world of entitlement. Someone once said if the worlds wealth was equally distributed - that in one month the rich would have all their money back - I wonder if they are really that dynamic - or would a natural monitary evolution take place that would displace the present establishment. For those who have degrees in economics and understand the complex science of international lending - what do YOU think the results would be with total debt forgiveness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 That was my lead up question. The real question is this - In so far as huge national debts are concerned - when the debt and the interest is paid on loans - who are the individuals who recieve the money? They must have names - They must have faces - who are these individuals in the what looks like the eternal position of collectors. I wonder - if we were to name all these human beings - and then have a conference..could we come to a real solution too global fiscal meltdown? Why do we not take this approach? Certainly the tillions that are owed to China...must be owed to individuals in charge of governments and lending companies --------Lets try to put a face on this problem and deal in the fashion of human vs. human rather that a population dealing with what seems to be a mindless self destructive machine or beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 The potlatch was similar except the richest most powerful chiefs simply gave away all or most of their wealth and possessions. It was a demonstration of the chief's faith in his ability to produce more...for the next potlatch. We, or our illustrious Majesty, outlawed the potlatch. I guess it just wouldn't do if such an idea gained traction under her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 It sounds like a jubilee or potlatch is a manner of peaceful reconciliation that is intended to leave all the chiefs and majesties etc in possession of their most cherished thing, the one thing they really don't want to ever give up which of course is their power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 The potlatch was similar except the richest most powerful chiefs simply gave away all or most of their wealth and possessions. It was a demonstration of the chief's faith in his ability to produce more...for the next potlatch. We, or our illustrious Majesty, outlawed the potlatch. I guess it just wouldn't do if such an idea gained traction under her. The modern rich and powerful do not have faith in their own ability to "produce more" - It seems our system is now based on the most powerful producing nothing and expecting more. To lend at an interest under ancient Christian and Judaic law was considered a no no - because in time a parasitic sect would arise and people would be enslaved to no end. There used to be the concept of the indentured slave and the non-endentured slave - the later was capabel of slowly working his way out of slavery - with this debt ceiling crisis going on it appears that slavery has returned and there is no sight of freedom on the distant horizon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 The modern rich and powerful do not have faith in their own ability to "produce more" - It seems our system is now based on the most powerful producing nothing and expecting more. Capitalists certainly seem to have the same kind of faith in their system of wealth generation the old chiefs had. Their thinking is positively Cornucopian and eternally optimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 Capitalists certainly seem to have the same kind of faith in their system of wealth generation the old chiefs had. Their thinking is positively Cornucopian and eternally optimistic. I hope so - faith is faith, no matter in what form. BUT the general population can lose faith in the god Mammon..there is a problem. Once confidence is lost in the market place - and it is just the common guy that invests in the market..all falls apart.. I know of one man who is very powerful - he does NOT play the market ever..at one time his brother was chair of the exchange - but the family may have ran the market but they knew better than to gamble - gambling is for those that want something for nothing - which is most of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 Some Character that looks like the cartoon guy "Mr. Burns" - sits in some tower some where waiting for his trillion dollars in interest to arrive in a huge sack - can't we just put a bit poison in the old bastards tea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 KING BACH declares that all debts are forgiven - now be on your way! That was easy.... It should be that easy - what's all the panic and fuss about - 50 million people sitting in front of computer screens wearing head sets and gaping at some digits on the wall of every stock exchange do not wealth make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 It is rather hilarious isn't it, like a Monty Python skit or a scene out of the Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy. I think if the idea of the jubilee could come from the right it might have a chance. If the right-wing perceives the idea came from anywhere else it'll never ever fly. I'd try to sell the idea on the basis that the collapse of the world's financial system is the result of all the weight of decades of socialism. Leave the poor Jews alone and blame it all on the left. So here's the deal. We zero the books, scrap all social spending, and cut capitalism loose once and presumably for all time, and we should all be farting in silk in no time at all. All our new credit can be based on the wealth that's whirling around the sun in the form of planets and asteroids that are just waiting for us to pluck from their orbits. Call it, pie-in-the-sky financing if you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 Of course we'd have to liquidate what's left of this planet to make it all work. There's the rub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 This world work. Don't like to use the term "redistribution of wealth" but I will..Those that have a personal worth of say a couple of billion bucks. Can have a meeting - from what I understand they are having an "emergancy" meeting as we write. Let them find out and recognize what is actually emergying..that the ugly head of reality is sticking up and about to go up their lower track...so. Let these people all agree in UNISON - to give up one billion each of their net worth - and send it downward as a bail out for the average person. There problem was one working in reverse - they expected a bailout to cup UP - in their direction - monopoly money generated from nothing...so to float the rich we give them pretend money that they print themselves...maybe it's time that they send back some of that real money and stop expecting the have nots to float them artifically. These folks I am talking about are not even about money - it is about control of other with money - that does not exist. The super rich are a very insecure bunch and the idea of giving up some power to maintain power is beyond their scope of imagination...You can not have your cake and eat it too..but right now they are meeting - desperately trying to find a way to eat that cake made out of air - It's not going to work - Capitalism has reached it's peak and need a reset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 Further more - those that are capable of biting the bullet had better chomp down and do it quickly. These problems can be sloved but it will take some courage - I just hope those with intergenerational wealth have the guts do what has to be done - It will not be about expecting those with less to do with less - It is about those with too much to do with less - which is still a lot - It's a compormise that will not hurt..but power and ego will cloud their minds and they will destroy the very empire they seek to sustain...because sometimes real power is not power -That is the reality _ I told an old investment banker a long time ago "You really don't have any real money do you?" He did not disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 It sounds like a jubilee or potlatch is a manner of peaceful reconciliation that is intended to leave all the chiefs and majesties etc in possession of their most cherished thing, the one thing they really don't want to ever give up which of course is their power. The rich and powerful have lost faith ---------in them selves..we had better give the poor dears some encouragement...this so called crisis is not real...just make the neccesary adjustments and get on with it - as for the market - it's bullshit...to allow this thing- with it's grafts and squiggling lines that go up and down as if the market has a mind --- is also bullshit - The market is a dumb mindeless beast - If the mythical biblical beast does exist it would be in the form of this mindless collective of mammonism...the reason they call it a beast is because it has no brain - how hard can it be to get this creature under control...firstly - stop empowering with respect...there will be no recession or depression - it will be what we want it to be - Life will go on and we will continue to be prosperous...cos I said so! This is the mind set that our finacial leaders must take on and stop being afraid of a fictional thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 Just hope that human beings can repair human mistakes and the damage caused by those errors - We will have to place our faith in the jerks trying to fix this problem - they have my full support - after all - they have the ball and own the field - what else can we do but cheer them on to success. Sure would not want to be in the shoes of the big dogs right now - Imagine - getting blamed for collapsing the whole economy of a whole planet? That is the ultimate weight of embarrassment...God speed and good luck - and now - for some lunch - while I can still afford to eat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 Just hope that human beings can repair human mistakes and the damage caused by those errors - We will have to place our faith in the jerks trying to fix this problem - they have my full support - after all - they have the ball and own the field - what else can we do but cheer them on to success. Sure would not want to be in the shoes of the big dogs right now - Imagine - getting blamed for collapsing the whole economy of a whole planet? That is the ultimate weight of embarrassment...God speed and good luck - and now - for some lunch - while I can still afford to eat. Shhhh - blame it on the left Oleg - get with the program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 (edited) Shhhh - blame it on the left Oleg - get with the program. You have to do it with panache though. The Resurrection is Possible! Help Us Celebrate the Resurrection! ...Of the Jubilee! - New World Order - Freedoms from Bondage! Socialism has Left us - all of us - in the heavy chains of economic despair through endless debt, endless taxes and endless Big Government spending. We are eventually Left with nothing, but a sense of owing - forever. Eternity should be for the Righteous and Faithful not for debt, taxes and Big Government! The Natural Order is being perverted by all these special interest causes, robbing us everyday of our rightful place within the Heavenly Wealth of Paradise. We need to Right the wrongs, throw off the chains of the costs of socialism and the way to do that is by the Blessed Right to Jubilee. Jubilee - Forgiveness for Sinful Debts, Blessings from a fresh start, Abundance once again, free from the tethers of perverted Justice. We all win, all shall be Righteous, the Natural Order restored. Faith, Hope and Charity For All (not just special interest groups) Edited August 8, 2011 by Shwa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 Of course we'd have to liquidate what's left of this planet to make it all work. There's the rub. Once all natural resourses are liquidated into cold hard cash..do you think we could manage not to rack up another huge debt? It might be that irritation called interest...one person who has the money lending to someone else that does not have the money - hoping to get back more money from a person with no money....that's the rub. I suspect that we have this thing called interest as a measure to make sure nothing is done in the interest of the other...which is getting to the point where I am losing interest in something that the human mind can not get itself around - wow - what a system....it's actually quite evil. Maybe those that lend know that they will never be paid back in full - and they like the fact that people are enslaved to them - maybe it's all about power and domnination over your fellow man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 It sounds like a jubilee or potlatch is a manner of peaceful reconciliation that is intended to leave all the chiefs and majesties etc in possession of their most cherished thing, the one thing they really don't want to ever give up which of course is their power. Wonder why the authorities outlawed the potlatch? Were there right wing extremist capitalists back then that wanted to make sure no one set a Christ like example by feeding the mulititudes? Might be bad for buisness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I have no debts. None at all. Should I rush out and get some loans and a mortgage before this blessed event? -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Oleg, can I borrow 500 bucks? Just kidding. This thread is in la-la land, most people in the end deserve the debt they have taken on. Unfortunately, some people don't read the fine print, or research what they are getting into properly, or are just plain dumb. Others can also be screwed in the process of the above by the powers that be. What do you do with those who are in debt and in destitute and can't get out of that state because of the debt? Forgive the debt? Will they learn their lessons? I don't know the answer, you can make a case for it for the poorest of countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 This idea sounds simple enough, maybe it could work! All that is needed is some goodwill and cooperation. And why not, everyone would benefit! The main problem is, to eliminate this huge debt. We're talking trillions here folks. But I'm sure we can do it if we all work together. First, we need to make a GIANT ERASER... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) This idea sounds simple enough, maybe it could work! All that is needed is some goodwill and cooperation. And why not, everyone would benefit!Ugh. You made me read one of Oleg's posts.What people forget is that one peron's debt is someone else's asset. So wiping debt - especially government debt - means you are wiping out the wealth of all those people who saved money and lent it to government. This includes a lot of people of modest means who invest in GICs or depend on a defined benefit pension plan or even hold insurance policies. In other words, the plan is not just naive - it is absurd. Edited August 9, 2011 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Ugh. You made me read one of Oleg's posts. Sorry, TimG! But the giant eraser idea, I thought it was kinda cute... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Ugh. You made me read one of Oleg's posts. What people forget is that one peron's debt is someone else's asset. So wiping debt - especially government debt - means you are wiping out the wealth of all those people who saved money and lent it to government. This includes a lot of people of modest means who invest in GICs or depend on a defined benefit pension plan or even hold insurance policies. In other words, the plan is not just naive - it is absurd. You beat me to it! I was just typing a post saying just this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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