Treason and the Bankruptcy Of the USA

[pinko]

There are a couple of missions (soup kitchens) near my place - from what I understand the food is pretty good - all the crack heads go there so they don't waste their money on food...and have more of the governmental cheaque for dope...I would rather poke out an eye...or chop of my left index finger than enter one of those places - I could be starving and I will make due boiling a shoe if neccesary - NO way in hell will I join that class of rotted humanity...I might be a dog to some - but this dog holds his head high and the tail is never between my legs!

Those food kitchens must be a sign of affluence.

[pinko]

Levin Unveils Stop Tax Haven Abuse Act

Bill to Close Offshore Tax Loopholes, Raise Revenue, and Keep Profits and Jobs in U.S.

Tuesday, July 12, 2011

http://taxjustice.blogspot.com/2011/07/us-senator-levin-unveils-new-stop-tax.html

[Guest American Woman]

The changes that are needed will not be easy. That will take leadership which is the responsibility of government.

Many changes that have taken place in the United States since it was first inhabited have not been easy. Yet the country has persevered. I really don't understand the 'doom and gloom' mindset coming from so many now.

[Guest American Woman]

Not without your allies help.

Even if this were true, so what? Isn't that what allies are for? We've been there for our allies in the past, so what's the difference? It seems to me that there's an attitude reserved for the U.S. and the U.S. alone that I just don't get.

And bush_cheney is right. Americans aren't sitting around fretting over this. It seems to be the non-Americans who are spending the most time thinking about it.

The 1990's was a housing bubble and the entire economy did not depend on mortgages. While it did slow things down in the construction marker, it was nothing more than a seasonal correction of the markets. We had our resources then and we still have them now.

Right. When you're in a slump, it's nothing that can't be overcome. But when the U.S. is, it's a crisis and nothing will ever be the same again.

[Guest American Woman]

And no doubt you will take us with you, but we have some things you don't have that the world still wants: resources and a friendly relationship with China.

And we don't have resources? As for your friendly relationship with China, it amazes me that you would trot that out as a thing to behold, as so many Canadians sanctimoniously criticize the U.S. for it's 'evil ways.' Good for Canada if you are going to look to China to save you, but some of you better take a good hard look at yourselves/your nation if that's the case.

You are right. We are in a medicare crisis. We are also in an education crisis, a justice crisis and a native poverty crisis. We acknowledge these things and are doing something about it.

Gosh. Could have sworn Obama/Congress is acknowledging it and doing something about it.

The US on the other hand (at least if you and BC are typical Americans) is still in denial.

We're in "denial" of nothing. You just want us to write off the U.S. as doomed, and unfixable, and in a crisis it will never recover from, and we aren't about to do that. Sorry if that disturbs you, but our not reacting like you - or Canadians, if that's what you're getting at - doesn't mean we are in denial. You can react your way and feel doom and gloom and we will react our way, remaining optimistic, retaining faith in our country. Americans haven't lived on Easy Street - that's not the history of our nation. We've dealt with our problems head on and did do something about them. Which is why we are the nation that we are.

You believe you are coated in Teflon.

I believe no such thing. It's YOUR belief that I - that Americans - believe that. And it's off the wall ludicrous.

Fannie Mae and Freddy Mack should be reminders you are not immune from the failings of the stock market nor the world economy.

History is a "reminder" that we are not immune. Have you missed it when I've said that over and over? This isn't the first time we've had to deal with a difficult situation. Honestly. You are basing so much of what you say and think to attributes that you are assigning to America/Americans.

And if a simple thing like mortgages and ponzi schemes can put you where you are today, you should be afraid. Be very very afraid.

"Where we are today" is not someplace we haven't been in the past; we have been in difficult spots before. So sorry to disappoint, but I'm not "very very afraid."

[charter.rights]

And we don't have resources? As for your friendly relationship with China, it amazes me that you would trot that out as a thing to behold, as so many Canadians sanctimoniously criticize the U.S. for it's 'evil ways.' Good for Canada if you are going to look to China to save you, but some of you better take a good hard look at yourselves/your nation if that's the case.

Gosh. Could have sworn Obama/Congress is acknowledging it and doing something about it.

We're in "denial" of nothing. You just want us to write off the U.S. as doomed, and unfixable, and in a crisis it will never recover from, and we aren't about to do that. Sorry if that disturbs you, but our not reacting like you - or Canadians, if that's what you're getting at - doesn't mean we are in denial. You can react your way and feel doom and gloom and we will react our way, remaining optimistic, retaining faith in our country. Americans haven't lived on Easy Street - that's not the history of our nation. We've dealt with our problems head on and did do something about them. Which is why we are the nation that we are.

I believe no such thing. It's YOUR belief that I - that Americans - believe that. And it's off the wall ludicrous.

History is a "reminder" that we are not immune. Have you missed it when I've said that over and over? This isn't the first time we've had to deal with a difficult situation. Honestly. You are basing so much of what you say and think to attributes that you are assigning to America/Americans.

"Where we are today" is not someplace we haven't been in the past; we have been in difficult spots before. So sorry to disappoint, but I'm not "very very afraid."

Touchy today, aren't we. Did you puff out your chest in typical America style when you wrote that?

Edited July 17, 2011 by charter.rights

[Guest American Woman]

Touchy today, aren't we. Did you puff out your chest in typical America style when you wrote that?

Nope. Not touchy at all ... but don't let that stop you from projecting and making claims as to what I - Americans - think. Your "typical American style" comment says all that needs to be said - about you.

[bush_cheney2004]

History is a "reminder" that we are not immune. Have you missed it when I've said that over and over? This isn't the first time we've had to deal with a difficult situation. Honestly. You are basing so much of what you say and think to attributes that you are assigning to America/Americans.

This is key...not only are they projecting and assuming that America won't live up to their own naive expectations, but they also get upset at Americans for not taking their assignments from across the border seriously.

"Where we are today" is not someplace we haven't been in the past; we have been in difficult spots before. So sorry to disappoint, but I'm not "very very afraid."

Yes, another member is disappointed that America has cut the budget for NASA...amazing! Canada is free to conquer space any time it pleases...go for it.

[bush_cheney2004]

Touchy today, aren't we. Did you puff out your chest in typical America style when you wrote that?

Maybe not, but I did after reading it!

[Wilber]

Many changes that have taken place in the United States since it was first inhabited have not been easy. Yet the country has persevered. I really don't understand the 'doom and gloom' mindset coming from so many now.

Perhaps because we are not seeing the kind of leadership that really wants to deal with these issues from either party. Getting your debt problems under control has gone much farther than a political game. My "doom and gloom" concerns your politicians more than your country.

And we don't have resources? As for your friendly relationship with China, it amazes me that you would trot that out as a thing to behold, as so many Canadians sanctimoniously criticize the U.S. for it's 'evil ways.' Good for Canada if you are going to look to China to save you, but some of you better take a good hard look at yourselves/your nation if that's the case.

Actually, we don't have a particularly friendly relationship with China. We just have a lot of some of the things they want.

[charter.rights]

Perhaps because we are not seeing the kind of leadership that really wants to deal with these issues from either party. Getting your debt problems under control has gone much farther than a political game. My "doom and gloom" concerns your politicians more than your country.

Actually, we don't have a particularly friendly relationship with China. We just have a lot of some of the things they want.

We import over $80 billion a year form China and export about $15 billion. I would say that is a pretty good relationship.

[Wilber]

We import over $80 billion a year form China and export about $15 billion. I would say that is a pretty good relationship.

That's not a relationship, it's business. They buy our resources because we have them. We buy their stuff because it is cheap. Fact is, our governments do not get along that well. In that respect we probably have a worse relationship with China than the US.

[Guest American Woman]

We import over $80 billion a year form China and export about $15 billion. I would say that is a pretty good relationship.

Canada's Major Trading Partners - 2010

Canada trades with the world but its main trading partner is the U.S., accounting for roughly two-thirds of trade and the majority of capital moving in and out of Canada.

Canada's Top 10 Export Markets by Country, 2010

Country Total Exports

($CAD millions)...............% Share of

United States....298,524........74.9%

United Kingdom...16,396..........4.1%

China..................13,232..........3.3%

Canada's Top 10 Import Markets by Country, 2010

Country Total Imports

($CAD millions)...............% Share of

United States...203,152.........50.9%

China.................44,464........11.1%

Then you must have a super fantastic relationship with the U.S.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Then you must have a super fantastic relationship with the U.S.

No, as has been discussed in other threads, such US dependent trade is an underlying source of resentment.

"Damn Americans...I hate the bastards." - C. Parrish

[Sir Bandelot]

No, as has been discussed in other threads, such US dependent trade is an underlying source of resentment.

"Damn Americans...I hate the bastards." - C. Parrish

One person does not speak for a whole country. Something you two seem to forget. As well, your attitude displayed here is not necessarily representative of 'merkins in general.

Lets not forget, while you're confident there will be a solution, as am I, much of the hype about the danger of this crisis is actually coming from people on YOUR side of the border!

[bush_cheney2004]

One person does not speak for a whole country. Something you two seem to forget. As well, your attitude displayed here is not necessarily representative of 'merkins in general.

Such sentiments extend far beyond just Ms. Parrish. While certainly not all or even a majority of Canadians, it remains a sore point from softwood lumber to American "style" television. The resentment comes from the need/desire for close economic integration coupled with fierce disdain and independence for/from American foreign and domestic policy.

Lets not forget, while you're confident there will be a solution, as am I, much of the hype about the danger of this crisis is actually coming from people on YOUR side of the border!

Would Canadians be quite satisfied with Americans providing similar doom pronouncements in the 1990's, along with policy recommendations? Published stories from that time indicate not. Or perhaps 15% of Americans could vote in Canadian federal elections, as was expressed in a 2008 Canadian poll. Would that be OK?

Edited July 18, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[Sir Bandelot]

Such sentiments extend far beyond just Ms. Parrish. While certainly not all or even a majority of Canadians, it remains a sore point from softwood lumber to American "style" television. The resentment comes from the need/desire for close economic integration coupled with fierce disdain and independence for/from American foreign and domestic policy.

"Fierce" is somewhat overblown. As with most sensationalist things, a few loudmouths in the media get all the attention, while the rest of us don't make no nevermind.

But in as much as this topic is concerned, America IS different. The US economy plays a major role worldwide. So whither it goes, there we all go. And when you do bad because of dumb things people on your side of the fence do, the rest of us who might suffer for it will get mad at you. My mortgage rate could go up. That's certainly a normal reaction.

Also when you screw people over to make a buck off them, it's a normal reaction too. At least it's seen as that way by the ones who get screwed.

Personally I look to Canadian leadership to insulate us from potential damage caused by the irresponsible or greedy actions of others. Whether it be American, European or Chinese. After this situation blows over I think we're going to see globalization get turned down a notch. That's the only way to go.

[bush_cheney2004]

"Fierce" is somewhat overblown. As with most sensationalist things, a few loudmouths in the media get all the attention, while the rest of us don't make no nevermind.

If only that were true....paying no "nevermind" manifests itself in strange ways around here.

But in as much as this topic is concerned, America IS different. The US economy plays a major role worldwide. So whither it goes, there we all go. And when you do bad because of dumb things people on your side of the fence do, the rest of us who might suffer for it will get mad at you. My mortgage rate could go up. That's certainly a normal reaction.

I want your mortgage rate to go up....it is too low. The thing that many critical Canadians have not reconciled is the very basis (and debt) for standard of living that is your present benchmark and source of resentment should that be threatened. Essentially, you are asking the Americans to do two mutually exclusive things for the sake of your own comfort.

Also when you screw people over to make a buck off them, it's a normal reaction too. At least it's seen as that way by the ones who get screwed.

Such people would strive for a change in relationship(s), but that is not what happened. Access to the American market is a stronger compelling argument than seeking true economic love elsewhere for principle, hence the resentment.

Personally I look to Canadian leadership to insulate us from potential damage caused by the irresponsible or greedy actions of others. Whether it be American, European or Chinese. After this situation blows over I think we're going to see globalization get turned down a notch. That's the only way to go.

Fine by me....I like my GMs and Fords made in the USA, not Ontario!

[Guest American Woman]

One person does not speak for a whole country. Something you two seem to forget.

Ummmm... I never said one person did speak for a whole country.

[dre]

This is key...not only are they projecting and assuming that America won't live up to their own naive expectations, but they also get upset at Americans for not taking their assignments from across the border seriously.

Yes, another member is disappointed that America has cut the budget for NASA...amazing! Canada is free to conquer space any time it pleases...go for it.

This is key...not only are they projecting and assuming that America won't live up to their own naive expectations, but they also get upset at Americans for not taking their assignments from across the border seriously.

The vast majority of this "doom and gloom" you guys are speaking of comes from the US. I know you guys are obsessed with Canadians, its your elected representitives, and folks like the tea-baggers that are are spouting all this hyperbole.

And even IF the US DOES declare bankruptcy again, and even IF the US dollar collapsed to zero, thats still not the end of the world. Youll still have a nation full of productive people that will move on with their lives.

All the countries that ran their dollar into the ground are still here...

Heres a list of national bankruptcies...

Denmark 1813: Danish state bankruptcy of 1813

United States 1933: confiscation of gold in private hands (Executive Order 6102) to be later revalued from $20 per ounce to $35 per ounce.

United States again with the 1971 repudiation of the dollar-gold convertibility

Russia: 1998 Russian financial crisis

Argentina: Argentine economic crisis (1999–2002)

Zimbabwe: Hyperinflation in Zimbabwe

Ecuador defaulted 2008 on one of its bonds

People overplay the doom in gloom that would be involved if the US defaulted on its debt, or its currency collapsed. It would certainly be a tough time for many Americans, but its nothing that Americans wont recover from... its only the government in its current form that might not recover.

It will suck when it happens... but its not like Americans are going to dissappear off the face of the earth.

[bush_cheney2004]

The vast majority of this "doom and gloom" you guys are speaking of comes from the US. I know you guys are obsessed with Canadians, its your elected representitives, and folks like the tea-baggers that are are spouting all this hyperbole.

It seems you have contradicted yourself. Even the anti-Americanism is imported from...America?

Edited July 18, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[dre]

Such sentiments extend far beyond just Ms. Parrish. While certainly not all or even a majority of Canadians, it remains a sore point from softwood lumber to American "style" television. The resentment comes from the need/desire for close economic integration coupled with fierce disdain and independence for/from American foreign and domestic policy.

Would Canadians be quite satisfied with Americans providing similar doom pronouncements in the 1990's, along with policy recommendations? Published stories from that time indicate not. Or perhaps 15% of Americans could vote in Canadian federal elections, as was expressed in a 2008 Canadian poll. Would that be OK?

Such sentiments extend far beyond just Ms. Parrish. While certainly not all or even a majority of Canadians, it remains a sore point from softwood lumber to American "style" television. The resentment comes from the need/desire for close economic integration coupled with fierce disdain and independence for/from American foreign and domestic policy.

Its mostly in your head to be honest. Nobody up here really cares what you do. For the most part the only time I even see the US mentioned is when Im logged in here, or theres some story on the news. People up here dont have this wierd obsession with the Canada / US relationship that you do.

[Guest American Woman]

The vast majority of this "doom and gloom" you guys are speaking of comes from the US. I know you guys are obsessed with Canadians, its your elected representitives, and folks like the tea-baggers that are are spouting all this hyperbole.

Speaking for myself, it's Canadians' posts on this board that I'm responding to, not my "elected representatives" and "folks like tea-baggers." So the "hyperbole" I am responding to is coming from said Canadians. Which of course means I'm "obsessed with Canadians." And when I'm not paying attention to Canada, I'm an ignorant American who knows nothing about Canada - while Canadians know everything there is to know about the United States. But of course that doesn't make Canadians obsessed with Americans.

[bush_cheney2004]

Its mostly in your head to be honest. Nobody up here really cares what you do. For the most part the only time I even see the US mentioned is when Im logged in here, or theres some story on the news. People up here dont have this wierd obsession with the Canada / US relationship that you do.

Sure they don't...that why this "Canadian" forum has dedicated areas for United States Politics and Canada / US Relations. So what's on TV tonight?

[Sir Bandelot]

Ummmm... I never said one person did speak for a whole country.

Of course you did. You act like your attitude represents that of all Americans. You and your compatriot do it all the time. But you do it more.