israel gets caught distributing hoax video

[jacee]

I expect the Israeli government defines all donations to Gaza relief as contributions to terrorists.

[Bob]

Bloodyminded, you sure have a penchant for going off on irrelevant tangents. It's as if you read a thing or two about this or that, and stop at nothing to derail a thread towards those topics you are committed to discussing. It's really weird.

And jacee, you would lose that bet. There are many relatively lawful organizations that work with Gaza. You're just trying to be witty with simplistic rhetoric, which ironically serves only to reveal your ignorance.

[bloodyminded]

Bloodyminded, you sure have a penchant for going off on irrelevant tangents. It's as if you read a thing or two about this or that, and stop at nothing to derail a thread towards those topics you are committed to discussing. It's really weird.

What you mean is you're insufficiently knowledgeable to debate the points. And you're sure as hell never going to concede a goddamn point, what with your arrogance and all.

It's not a tangent, Bob: you made a specific claim, in a declarative sentence: I countered it.

I've noticed this about you: when I address your remarks, you say I'm off topic.

That is, whenever it's a subject I've read and thought about, and which you have not.

Edited July 6, 2011 by bloodyminded

[Saipan]

I expect the Israeli government defines all donations to Gaza relief as contributions to terrorists.

Any evidence?

How about Israeli help to palestinians?

Fact: The Left denounced humanitarian help to contras as "illegal help to terrorists".

[jacee]

And jacee, you would lose that bet. There are many relatively lawful organizations that work with Gaza. You're just trying to be witty with simplistic rhetoric, which ironically serves only to reveal your ignorance.

I'm not convinced by the evidence presented here that the flotilla is "funded by Hamas". Not even the IDF makes that claim.

It's apparent that you are passionate about your cause. However personal attacks in place of information suggest that you are aware of some weakness in your position.

I admit to incomplete knowledge of the situation, but the shocking information that a person on the previous flotilla was shot in the back of the head when already disarmed and immobilized is very damaging to the credibility of the IDF, imo.

[bud]

Bloodyminded, you sure have a penchant for going off on irrelevant tangents. It's as if you read a thing or two about this or that, and stop at nothing to derail a thread towards those topics you are committed to discussing. It's really weird.

And jacee, you would lose that bet. There are many relatively lawful organizations that work with Gaza. You're just trying to be witty with simplistic rhetoric, which ironically serves only to reveal your ignorance.

he hammered home the facts and dissected your fox-style talking point that only works on the bottom feeders of society. you have been left pantless and it seems to be quite chilly where you are.

best to bow down and leave instead of embarrassing yourself further.

[bloodyminded]

Fact: The Left denounced humanitarian help to contras as "illegal help to terrorists".

The Contras were terrorists, a thousand times more brutal than the government they wished to overthrow. And the "humanitarian help" consisted of weapons with which the terrorists butchered people.

It wasn't just "the left" that denounced the arming and funding of a terorist militia; it was also the militia's many victims...those who survived the onslaught.

[Bob]

I'm not convinced by the evidence presented here that the flotilla is "funded by Hamas". Not even the IDF makes that claim.

I never made that claim.

It's apparent that you are passionate about your cause. However personal attacks in place of information suggest that you are aware of some weakness in your position.

I admit to incomplete knowledge of the situation, but the shocking information that a person on the previous flotilla was shot in the back of the head when already disarmed and immobilized is very damaging to the credibility of the IDF, imo.

Is this where you link us to a counterpunch.org "eyewitness testimonial"?

[DogOnPorch]

Hamas terrorists? Nah...all they want is a little piece.

[Bob]

Wow, is that Mel Brooks? Too funny.

[DogOnPorch]

Wow, is that Mel Brooks? Too funny.

Mel it is.

[Saipan]

The Contras were terrorists, a thousand times more brutal than the government they wished to overthrow.

So how come the "government" lost free elections?

[bloodyminded]

So how come the "government" lost free elections?

Not to the terrorists.

[bud]

Wow, is that Mel Brooks? Too funny.

wow, is that mel brooks or is that bob the ethnic cleansing supporter pretending that someone didn't have the patience to respond and dissect his long winded irrational comments? too funny.

[Rue]

I expect the Israeli government defines all donations to Gaza relief as contributions to terrorists.

You expect? Other than make a comment that shows you share a partisan bias that makes you lack objectivity what did the above words achieve?

Had you at least made a half-assed attempt you would know Israel does not stop over land movement of aid into Gaza and it provides its own aid to Gaza and what it is worried about is not the aid, its weapons being smuggled in with the aid.

Of course if you want to use aid as a propoganda exercise go ahead but you and the others exploiting the flotillas could give a rat's ass about Palestinians.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/About+the+Ministry/Behind+the+Headlines/Israeli_humanitarian_lifeline_Gaza_25-May-2010.htm

http://www.cicweb.ca/scene/2010/06/israel_aid_to_gaza/

http://www.israel21c.org/social-action/israeli-animal-charity-sends-aid-to-gaza-zoo

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/144914

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/137728

[Rue]

Here is an article that best explains concerns Israel has with aid being sent into Gaza and for that matter the West Bank:

spurce:

Does Foreign Aid Fuel Palestinian Violence?

by Steven Stotsky

Middle East Quarterly

Summer 2008, pp. 23-30

VOLUME XV: NUMBER 3

Here are two key quotes from it:

"An examination of key measures of violence reveals a troublesome correlation between the number of homicides committed by Palestinians and the level of funding provided to the Palestinian Authority. As aid to the Palestinian government increased, there was a corresponding increase in the number of people, both Israeli and Palestinian, killed by Palestinians. The correlation between aid and homicide statistics does not mean that foreign aid causes violence, but it does raise a question about whether the flow of aid to the Palestinian government has helped fuel Palestinian violence and hindered efforts to restore calm."

and

"Although the correlation does not prove cause and effect or provide irrefutable evidence of a direct link, it seems likely that increased aid helps sustain Palestinian violence in several ways: by creating the opportunity to divert funds for militant activities; by insulating the Palestinian leadership from the fiscal consequences of the economic fallout from terrorism; and by creating a revenue surplus that allows the Palestinian government both to pay for salaries and programs and to funnel money to terrorists. As Western donors prepare to pour unprecedented amounts of money into the PA, more discussion is needed to explain what controls will be imposed to ensure that the aid is not diverted to terrorists or used to fund a broader conflict with Israel."

[Rue]

Oh but wait let's not forget Israel lies but there is no propaganda machine working overtime for Hamas in regards to these flotillas.

http://idfspokesperson.com/2011/06/30/financial-links-uncovered-between-hamas-and-gaza-flotilla-organizers/

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/145361

http://www.examiner.com/law-enforcement-in-national/osama-hamas-link-revealed-gaza-flotilla-report

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=176595

http://www.foiwa.org.au/node/333?amp

Does someone want to explain how The Free Gaza Movement is NOT an affiliate of the International Solidarity Movement, which opposes the existence of the Jewish state?

Does someone wish to explain to me how the IHH (Turkish Humanitarian Relief Foundation) is is not linked to jihadist organizations in Bosnia, Syria, Iraq, Libya, and elsewhere and openly allied with Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran?

With the latest flotillas see:

http://www.mideastmag.com/53772/flotilla-being-funded-by-muslim-brotherhood-and-hamas/ which states:

"The flotilla is being funded in large part by three Islamic charity funds from the Hamas-affiliated Charity Coalition, which directly fund Hamas and other terror groups.

Among the funds is the European Campaign to End the Siege (ECESG), a UK-based umbrella organization of more than thirty Europe-based organizations; it openly supports Hamas. Most of its organizations ― founded as Muslim Brotherhood branches in Europe ― are participating in the 2011 Gaza flotilla. Israeli military sources found that some of these umbrella organizations are sponsors of Hamas terror activity in Gaza.

ECESG Chairman Dr. Arafat Madi Mahmoud Shukri also serves as chairman of the Palestinian Return Center (PRC), which advocates the mass settling of descendants of Arabs who fled Israeli in 1948 in all parts of Israel as a means of destroying the country’s Jewish majority, in addition to supporting terror campaigns to frighten Jews into leaving the land. Due to PRC’s flagrant links to Hamas, it was declared illegal in Israel.

In addition to ECESG, the Switzerland-based Droit Pour Tous (“Rjghts for All”) organization and the Italy-based group ABSPP are openly and intimately involved in Hamas charity efforts as well as efforts to illegally break the lawfully enforced naval blockade on Gaza. Droit Pour Tous has, among other things filed a case for the arrest of President Shimon Peres when he visited Switzerland in March on the grounds that he is accused of committing “war crimes and crimes against humanity,” and has sponsored several Swiss members of parliament who are sailing on one of the flotilla ships."

Edited July 18, 2011 by Rue

[bud]

Does someone want to explain how The Free Gaza Movement is NOT an affiliate of the International Solidarity Movement, which opposes the existence of the Jewish state?

show proof of ISM being opposed to the existence of israel.

i'll help you by getting started. here is a link to their site.

[bud]

Oh but wait let's not forget Israel lies but there is no propaganda machine working overtime for Hamas in regards to these flotillas.

http://idfspokesperson.com/2011/06/30/financial-links-uncovered-between-hamas-and-gaza-flotilla-organizers/

and a big LOL for linking to idfspokesperson.com

[M.Dancer]

show proof of ISM being opposed to the existence of israel.

i'll help you by getting started. here is a link to their site.

http://jat-action.org/ISM_essay_ref15.htm

[Rue]

show proof of ISM being opposed to the existence of israel.

i'll help you by getting started. here is a link to their site.

Well how about we start then with their web-site and the words:

About the ISM

The International Solidarity Movement (ISM) is a Palestinian-led movement committed to resisting the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land.

For those of us that know better "Palestinian land" does not just refer to Gaza and the West Bank but Israel and Jordan. But then Bud had no idea.

Here Bud go knock yourself out:

http://jat-action.org/ISM_essay.htm

http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article/international_solidarity_movement_ism_

http://www.jewishfederations.org/page.aspx?id=44660

http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/html/ipc_e149.htm

http://www.israelnewsagency.com/internationalsolidaritymovementterrorism9330405.html

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=22&x_article=769

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/7181

http://israelseen.com/2010/10/24/lee-kaplan-infiltrated-the-international-solidarity-movement-and-in-israel-to-expose-the-fraud-in-rachel-corrie-case/

N

o problem for Bud. He will just laugh it off again because after all if an Israeli or for that matter anyone says anything Bud disagrees with he giggles an guffaws.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Rue

[bud]

Well how about we start then with their web-site and the words:

About the ISM

The International Solidarity Movement (ISM) is a Palestinian-led movement committed to resisting the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land.

For those of us that know better "Palestinian land" does not just refer to Gaza and the West Bank but Israel and Jordan. But then Bud had no idea.

the above comment is your proof that they are against the existence of israel?

how do you expect people to take you seriously when you have such a silly approach to debates?

show me where ISM has stated that they are opposed to the existence of state of israel. kind of like how hamas has in their charter that they want to obliterate israel or how the current israeli government has vowed to never allow a palestinian state.

[Rue]

Bud I should know better then to have responded to you but I will do it one last time.

You stated:

"the above comment is your proof that they are against the existence of israel?"

No of course not. It was my opinion. I then provided a plethora of web sites providing the basis for my opinion and how the reference to liberating Palestine is not limited to Gaza and the West Bank but Israel itself and Jordan.

You stated:

"how do you expect people to take you seriously when you have such a silly approach to debates?"

Speak for yourself. You speak for no one but yourself. This delusion you have that you speak for others is just that. Now then, this notion you have that you can just ignore all the sites and arguements from those sites I provided and limit yourself to responding to one comment and calling it "silly" is what exactly Bud-a genius sharing his intellect?

You asked:

"show me where ISM has stated that they are opposed to the existence of state of israel."

I did. The fact you choose to ignore the sites I provided speaks for itself.

You stated:

" kind of like how hamas has in their charter that they want to obliterate israel.."

How about you try read their charter Bud. You clearly however evidence you don't read anything-you just make it up and bluff as you go along. Go read their charter Bud which specifically states the above.

Of course you will provide me sites and quotes like I did for you for the following comment right Bud?

"..the current israeli government has vowed to never allow a palestinian state."

I should have known better to respond to you.

Expecting you to respond to the sites and comments I provided was a bit much.

Edited July 19, 2011 by Rue

[Rue]

kind of like how hamas has in their charter that they want to obliterate israel...

No Bud exactly the same. Here genius, read Hamas' charter's references putz:

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

This Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), clarifies its picture, reveals its identity, outlines its stand, explains its aims, speaks about its hopes, and calls for its support, adoption and joining its ranks. Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised.

The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders. It goes back to 1939, to the emergence of the martyr Izz al-Din al Kissam and his brethren the fighters, members of Muslim Brotherhood. It goes on to reach out and become one with another chain that includes the struggle of the Palestinians and Muslim Brotherhood in the 1948 war and the Jihad operations of the Muslim Brotherhood in 1968 and after.

Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).

Article Eleven:

The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Muslim generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Muslim generations till Judgement Day?

Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance.

There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with.

Since this is the case, liberation of Palestine is then an individual duty for very Muslim wherever he may be.

Fifteen:

The day that enemies usurp part of Muslim land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Muslim. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised. To do this requires the diffusion of Islamic consciousness among the masses, both on the regional, Arab and Islamic levels. It is necessary to instill the spirit of Jihad in the heart of the nation so that they would confront the enemies and join the ranks of the fighters.

Article Twenty-Eight:

The Zionist invasion is a vicious invasion. It does not refrain from resorting to all methods, using all evil and contemptible ways to achieve its end. It relies greatly in its infiltration and espionage operations on the secret organizations it gave rise to, such as the Freemasons, The Rotary and Lions clubs, and other sabotage groups. All these organizations, whether secret or open, work in the interest of Zionism and according to its instructions. They aim at undermining societies, destroying values, corrupting consciences, deteriorating character and annihilating Islam. It is behind the drug trade and alcoholism in all its kinds so as to facilitate its control and expansion.

Arab countries surrounding Israel are asked to open their borders before the fighters from among the Arab and Islamic nations so that they could consolidate their efforts with those of their Muslim brethren in Palestine.

As for the other Arab and Islamic countries, they are asked to facilitate the movement of the fighters from and to it, and this is the least thing they could do.

We should not forget to remind every Muslim that when the Jews conquered the Holy City in 1967, they stood on the threshold of the Aqsa Mosque and proclaimed that "Mohammed is dead, and his descendants are all women."

Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Muslim people. "May the cowards never sleep."

If any of the words cause you difficulty Bud let me know.

[Rue]

..the current israeli government has vowed to never allow a palestinian state.

Well no Bud although I would expect you to spit out your opinions as if they are fact. Netanyahu did not say the above. But why let facts yet in your way right Bud?

Here genius here is what he actually stated:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/7977994/Direct-peace-talks-begin-as-Netanyahu-says-painful-concessions-will-have-to-be-made.html

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/05/24/us.netanyahu.speech/index.html?eref=edition