Sleipnir Posted November 29, 2012 Report Posted November 29, 2012 You know what betsy didn't do? She didn't watch the videos. If she did, she didn't understand them. Or maybe she wasn't able to view them on whatever she was accessing this room from. Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
Mighty AC Posted November 29, 2012 Report Posted November 29, 2012 Oh Betsy, watch the videos. We're not engaged in BS political battle here; where sides are chosen like fans of sports teams . We're all looking for answers. Science, which you say you value, tests, checks, confirms and then tries to disprove itself on route to finding facts. Your crowd supports this if the findings can be woven into their predetermined position based on two thousand year old knowledge. Unfortunately, they attack when inquiry driven facts clash with untested but firmly held beliefs. If you are going to take a position against scientific knowledge...please...learn a little bit about what you are arguing against. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
betsy Posted November 29, 2012 Author Report Posted November 29, 2012 (edited) No. Did anyone observe the creation of your god or your god's creation of the universe? That is, FAITH. I'm just following up on what you, yourself, stated: Oh Betsy, watch the videos. We're not engaged in BS political battle here; where sides are chosen like fans of sports teams . We're all looking for answers. Science, which you say you value, tests, checks, confirms and then tries to disprove itself on route to finding facts. You're claiming something - which I say is just purely an ASSUMPTION - as a scientific fact. It's quite simple. The only BS seems to be coming from you....since you don't want to answer this question that relates to your own assertion, and description of how science works. I'm simply responding to your own statement. You're citing SCIENCE. Science is supposed to be backed by OBSERVATION and/or TESTING. Thus I'm asking you. Don't squirm out of it. Answer the very simple question. Did anyone ever observe how something (Big Bang) came from nothing? Edited November 29, 2012 by betsy Quote
betsy Posted November 29, 2012 Author Report Posted November 29, 2012 (edited) The same question is thrown at those who just keep spouting off some silly refrain or adhominem - the DOO -WAP Choir! Cybercoma Gosthacked The Squid Sleipnir etc... It doesn't matter whether there's a hundred videos you give as your pathetic rebuttal.....or thousands of you swarming here with your incessant empty buzzings. It's obvious why you want to keep evolution and cosmology separated entirely! Let's deal about the beginning. Like I said, one reply fits all! ANSWER THE SIMPLE QUESTION. Did anyone ever observe how something (Big Bang) came from nothing? Edited November 29, 2012 by betsy Quote
Sleipnir Posted November 29, 2012 Report Posted November 29, 2012 You're claiming something - which I say is just purely an ASSUMPTION - as a scientific fact. It's quite simple. The only BS seems to be coming from you....since you don't want to answer this question that relates to your own assertion, and description of how science works. I'm simply responding to your own statement. You're citing SCIENCE. Science is supposed to be backed by OBSERVATION and/or TESTING. Yeah she doesn't understand how science work if she doesn't know what scientific assumption means. Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
Sleipnir Posted November 29, 2012 Report Posted November 29, 2012 The same question is thrown at those who just keep spouting off some silly refrain or adhominem - the DOO -WAP Choir! It doesn't matter whether there's a hundred videos you give as your pathetic rebuttal.....or thousands of you swarming here with your incessant empty buzzings. It's obvious why you want to keep evolution and cosmology separated entirely! Let's deal about the beginning. Watch the video. Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
cybercoma Posted November 29, 2012 Report Posted November 29, 2012 (edited) The same question is thrown at those who just keep spouting off some silly refrain or adhominem - the DOO -WAP Choir! Cybercoma Gosthacked The Squid Sleipnir etc... It doesn't matter whether there's a hundred videos you give as your pathetic rebuttal.....or thousands of you swarming here with your incessant empty buzzings. It's obvious why you want to keep evolution and cosmology separated entirely! Let's deal about the beginning. Like I said, one reply fits all! ANSWER THE SIMPLE QUESTION. Did anyone ever observe how something (Big Bang) came from nothing? The only thing that's obvious is that you choose to remain an ignorant proselytizing fool. Don't insult my intelligent with this utter garbage that you posted. The fact is that the vast majority of Christians understand and accept evolution as being true. If you don't want to understand it, that's your problem. However, your ignorant and incoherent ramblings are not convincing anyone. If you want to know why most Christians believe evolution, watch the video. It explains everything, including why it does not contradict most people's faith. Edited November 29, 2012 by cybercoma Quote
Sleipnir Posted November 29, 2012 Report Posted November 29, 2012 I think its time for a new topic since betsy has no grasp in science. Also because if we stop feeding the troll they will slowly wither and become reduced to nothing. What part of the bible, do people find to be the most contradictory to what we know now? (Dragons and demons don't count) Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
Mighty AC Posted November 29, 2012 Report Posted November 29, 2012 Betsy, you keep repeating a question that has been answered, yet you avoid the questions asked of you. I will answer your question one last time. We don't know what preceded the big bang and we may never know. Claiming not to know and searching for answers is the only honest stance. You assert that a god created the universe. Not only is this belief unsupported by evidence it does not provide any answers. For example: If asked to speculate what preceded the big bang I might guess it was triggered by the collapse of another universe but that just shifts the origin question a little further back in time. You face the same problem when you fill knowledge gaps with the assertion that God did it. The logical next question is what created your god? So Betsy, how was your god created? Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Mighty AC Posted November 29, 2012 Report Posted November 29, 2012 Betsy, I have answered your questions but you have avoided mine. Please read the points below and answer my question. 1) We do not know what preceded the Big Bang, but the Big Bang itself is a theory supported by everything we have observed and tested about the universe. If you are interested, this article explains (in layman's terms) how we know the universe is expanding, cooling, almost completely made of hydrogen and helium, etc. 2) All other theories are not simply "assumptions" because we do not know what preceded the Big Bang. For example, the Cell Theory and the Theory of Gravity still hold true on earth even if we didn't know how the earth was formed. Example: A pedestrian is hit by a car, we have skid marks, dents, blood, a body, and eye witness accounts. This fact does not become an assumption if we do not know where the car was manufactured. 3) Evolution, including speciation events have been observed, tested and confirmed. I have provided you with a link that documents the formation of a new species of salamander. The intermediate populations still exist and the lineage and direction of evolution has been confirmed with morphological, protein and DNA evidence. 4) You believe in evolution "within kinds". I provided a detailed examination of the use of "kind" in the bible which concluded: "There is no Biblical support for the assertion that genetic information cannot be gained, nor for any 'change barrier' that restricts how far a 'kind' may evolve." 5) You stated that scientific evidence is what changes a biblical passage from true to allegorical. In this case I have provided scientific evidence of a speciation event and have also shown that there is no biblical support for your position. How do you support your position that 'barriers' limit evolutionary changes to 'kinds'? Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
The_Squid Posted November 29, 2012 Report Posted November 29, 2012 Watch the videos Betsy.... I think that it is really cool that we are all made of stardust.... Quote
Sleipnir Posted November 29, 2012 Report Posted November 29, 2012 (edited) Did anyone ever observe how something (Big Bang) came from nothing? Yes, scientists had observed a big bang that came from 'nothing' in an experimental study. http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/big-bang-experiment-successful-18757 Edited November 29, 2012 by Sleipnir Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
cybercoma Posted November 30, 2012 Report Posted November 30, 2012 I wonder if betsy has seen Pat Robertson's recent remarks. Quote
betsy Posted November 30, 2012 Author Report Posted November 30, 2012 (edited) name='Sleipnir' timestamp='1354223808' post='858492'] Yes, scientists had observed a big bang that came from 'nothing' in an experimental study. http://www.ndtv.com/...uccessful-18757 READ YOUR OWN ARTICLE! It says: Goal: To mimic conditions moments after the Big Bang To examine nature of matter and the origin of stars, planets Ultimate aim to find Higgs boson, the so-called 'God particle' Read my question. Did anyone ever observe how something (Big Bang) came from nothing? Edited November 30, 2012 by betsy Quote
betsy Posted November 30, 2012 Author Report Posted November 30, 2012 (edited) Hey fellas, we're not going to move forward if you're going to choose to ignore my question. It is very much relevant to the discussion. I can understand your zeal and desperate cling to something that gives you hope.....but let' not get carried away by emotions, shall we? You are declaring an assumption, a scientific fact. I say you're wrong. It is not a fact. It is simply an assumption. A speculation. You cite science to back up your fraudulent claim. You've even given the explanation how science works. Scienec works through OBSERVATION and TESTING - those are the fundamentals. So, based on those very principles of science....stop squirming around, trying to get off the hook. ANSWER THE SIMPLE QUESTION. Did anyone ever observe how something (Big Bang) came from nothing? Edited November 30, 2012 by betsy Quote
cybercoma Posted November 30, 2012 Report Posted November 30, 2012 Not going to address Pat Robertson's remarks then? Quote
Sleipnir Posted November 30, 2012 Report Posted November 30, 2012 Did anyone ever observe how something (Big Bang) came from nothing? Yes, read the article I posted. Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
Sleipnir Posted November 30, 2012 Report Posted November 30, 2012 Hey fellas, we're not going to move forward if you're going to choose to ignore my question. It is very much relevant to the discussion. I can understand your zeal and desperate cling to something that gives you hope.....but let' not get carried away by emotions, shall we? Your getting carried away, not us. You haven't really been debating, but rather dancing around the topic. You are declaring an assumption, a scientific fact. I say you're wrong. It is not a fact. It is simply an assumption. A speculation. You cite science to back up your fraudulent claim. Again you seem to have no idea what a scientific assumption is. You've even given the explanation how science works. Scienec works through OBSERVATION and TESTING - those are the fundamentals. So, based on those very principles of science....stop squirming around, trying to get off the hook. Well there is more to the basic principle of science than simply 'observation' and 'testing'. Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
Mighty AC Posted November 30, 2012 Report Posted November 30, 2012 (edited) Did anyone ever observe how something (Big Bang) came from nothing? Answered here: http://www.mapleleaf...845#entry858319 and here: http://www.mapleleaf...830#entry857956 and here: http://www.mapleleaf...785#entry856863 You've avoided answering this several times now: http://www.mapleleaf...860#entry858330 If you do not wish to answer it, that's fine, just let me know. If my question or points require clarification, just ask and I will provide it. Edited November 30, 2012 by Mighty AC Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Sleipnir Posted November 30, 2012 Report Posted November 30, 2012 (edited) Read my question. Did anyone ever observe how something (Big Bang) came from nothing? http://www.explorato...ideas/bang.html As a partial quote in the above website. "How do we know the Big Bang happened? Astrophysicists have uncovered a great deal of compelling evidence over the past hundred years to support the Big Bang theory. Among this evidence is the observation that the universe is expanding. By looking at light emitted by distant galaxies, scientists have found that these galaxies are rapidly moving away from our galaxy, the Milky Way. An explosion like the Big Bang, which sent matter flying outward from a point, explains this observation. Another critical discovery was the observation of low levels of microwaves throughout space. Astronomers believe these microwaves, whose temperature is about -270 degrees Celsius, are the remnants of the extremely high-temperature radiation produced by the Big Bang. Interestingly, astronomers can get an idea of how hot the universe used to be by looking at very distant clouds of gas through high-power telescopes. Because light from these clouds can take billions of years to reach our telescopes, we see such bodies as they appeared eons ago. Lo and behold, these ancient clouds of gas seem to be hotter than younger clouds. Scientists have also been able to uphold the Big Bang theory by measuring the relative amounts of different elements in the universe. They've found that the universe contains about 74 percent hydrogen and 26 percent helium by mass, the two lightest elements. All the other heavier elements -- including elements common on earth, such as carbon and oxygen -- make up just a tiny trace of all matter. So how does this prove anything about the Big Bang? Scientists have shown, using theoretical calculations, that these abundances could only have been made in a universe that began in a very hot, dense state, and then quickly cooled and expanded. This is exactly the kind of universe that the Big Bang theory predicts." Betsy's question has now been answered. Edited November 30, 2012 by Sleipnir Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
betsy Posted December 1, 2012 Author Report Posted December 1, 2012 (edited) Betsy, I have answered your questions but you have avoided mine. Please read the points below and answer my question. 1) We do not know what preceded the Big Bang, but the Big Bang itself is a theory supported by everything we have observed and tested about the universe. If you are interested, this article explains (in layman's terms) how we know the universe is expanding, cooling, almost completely made of hydrogen and helium, etc. Well, we're not talking about what went after the Big Bang. We're talking about the CAUSE of all that. Just like there wouldn't be any evolution - diversification of life happening - without there being any life at all to begin with..... there wouldn't be any expansion and cooling, and hydrogen and helium, etc. without the so-called Big Bang happening first. You're claiming the Big Bang as a scientific fact. I say, it's just an assumption, not a fact. You guys insist it's a scientific fact. Thus. We. Won't. Go. Forward. Or. Anywhere. Without this question being addressed and directly answered. My question is very simple. It can only be answered by a simple yes or no. Did anyone ever observe something (Big Bang) coming out of nothing? YES or NO? Edited December 1, 2012 by betsy Quote
Sleipnir Posted December 1, 2012 Report Posted December 1, 2012 (edited) Did anyone ever observe something (Big Bang) coming out of nothing? YES or NO? http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=18914&st=1860 Edited December 1, 2012 by Sleipnir Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
cybercoma Posted December 1, 2012 Report Posted December 1, 2012 Well, we're not talking about what went after the Big Bang. We're talking about the CAUSE of all that. Just like there wouldn't be any evolution - diversification of life happening - without there being any life at all to begin with..... there wouldn't be any expansion and cooling, and hydrogen and helium, etc. without the so-called Big Bang happening first. You're claiming the Big Bang as a scientific fact. I say, it's just an assumption, not a fact. You guys insist it's a scientific fact. Thus. We. Won't. Go. Forward. Or. Anywhere. Without this question being addressed and directly answered. My question is very simple. It can only be answered by a simple yes or no. Did anyone ever observe something (Big Bang) coming out of nothing? YES or NO? Stop trolling. Quote
Sleipnir Posted December 1, 2012 Report Posted December 1, 2012 (edited) Stop trolling. Just give her, again, the link to my explanation. She'll have to deal with it eventually. Edited December 1, 2012 by Sleipnir Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
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