Question for Liberal Supporters

[betsy]

Joel belavance from La Presse said that messages were passed among Bloc supporters. They want Jack Layton to win and urged the Bloc supporters to vote NDP.

The guy from the Atlantic says that he could see signs of an NDP surge in that area.

It's been discussed on Power Play (with panelists Joel Belavance, Jane Taber and a guy from Atlantic) that Ignatieff is done. They say that's the reality now.

Belavance went on to say that there is no "bottom" for the Liberals.

They expect the polls to go down further to the "teens." (right now Liberals are at 21%)

My question is:

Are you still voting Liberal....or are you going to vote NDP ....or Conservatives. Why?

[Rick]

Joel belavance from La Presse said that messages were passed among Bloc supporters. They want Jack Layton to win and urged the Bloc supporters to vote NDP.

The guy from the Atlantic says that he could see signs of an NDP surge in that area.

It's been discussed on Power Play (with panelists Joel Belavance, Jane Taber and a guy from Atlantic) that Ignatieff is done. They say that's the reality now.

Belavance went on to say that there is no "bottom" for the Liberals.

They expect the polls to go down further to the "teens." (right now Liberals are at 21%)

My question is:

Are you still voting Liberal....or are you going to vote NDP ....or Conservatives. Why?

Well if Mrs Dion's got any influence on this... they'll be going NDP...

A scathing message attacking Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff appeared today on the Facebook site belonging to Janine Krieber - the wife of Mr. Ignatieff's predecessor, Stéphane Dion.

The message, a copy of which was obtained by The Globe, says the party "is falling apart, and will not recover." It also blames "the Toronto elites" for being out of tune, arrogant and unrealistic.

Mr. Ignatieff's leadership is openly questioned, as is his decision to shun the coalition deal struck by Mr. Dion, NDP Leader Jack Layton and Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe.

"The time for choices is now," the message says.

Source

[Topaz]

If you believe the polls, the Tories are at 35% and Jack at 30%, so it seems that people who didn`t vote in the last election will either put the NDP in control or bring the Libs back up to what they were. Since Tories had 37%? last time , that means they aren`t going to get much help from Ontario and those voters will go to NDP or the Libs. Good possibility, Tories could be the opposition party.

[Mr.Canada]

The right side of the Liberal party will start to move toward the Tories very soon.

[betsy]

If you believe the polls, the Tories are at 35% and Jack at 30%, so it seems that people who didn`t vote in the last election will either put the NDP in control or bring the Libs back up to what they were. Since Tories had 37%? last time , that means they aren`t going to get much help from Ontario and those voters will go to NDP or the Libs. Good possibility, Tories could be the opposition party.

That 35% for Harper...that's his base. They will vote Tories, no matter what.

There's another factor to consider. The Liberal Party is openly being dismissed now by all media. One commentator actually quipped yesterday to a journalist travelling with the Liberals, "How's the mood with the Liberals? Are they in shock? Or are they still in denial?"

Ignatieff's leadership rate is way lower than that achieved by Dion.

Morale among the Liberal supporters is at a very low. Perhaps even lower than how they felt with Dion in 2008. Depressed supporters may not be so keen to go out to vote.

So the question remains: Will a Liberal supporter vote Liberal (or not vote at all).....or wil he go with the NDP (to stop Harper majority)...or go with the Tories (to prevent waking up with an NDP government).

Edited April 28, 2011 by betsy

[capricorn]

Well if Mrs Dion's got any influence on this... they'll be going NDP...

Source

This was news in 2009 and posters here discussed it back then. I haven't heard that Dion's wife said anything in this particular campaign.

[capricorn]

If you believe the polls, the Tories are at 35% and Jack at 30%, so it seems that people who didn`t vote in the last election will either put the NDP in control or bring the Libs back up to what they were.

What percentage of people who were polled will actually get out and vote? Any idea?

[RNG]

I would guess that Lib supporters are abandoning the ship in large droves, if that isn't a redundancy. The question is, will their lifelong animosity of the Cons cause them to go NDP, or will the hate of the fact that the NDP pushed them out make them go Con. It is very interesting in this election.

[Dave_ON]

As I've said in other posts, I will be voting for Glen Pearson in London North Center. He does happen to be a Liberal but he's the only candidate that is actually known and involved in my community. Not everyone has the luxury of an involved and known community member running in their riding, and others perhaps don't care to look at it on a candidate by candidate basis. I'd vote for him regardless of the colour of his sign. If he weren't running however, that's a tough call, I'm just glad I don't have to make that call.

[BC_chick]

Well Betsy, this Liberal supporter is still very undecided.

When I was inspired by the Liberals and the NDP were irrelevant, the choice was easy. When I stopped being inspired by the Liberals, I still couldn't vote NDP because my riding is neck to neck CPC/LPC (with virtually no support for the NDP) so I really would be voting for the CPC if I voted NDP.

I still doubt the NDP have a chance in my riding (the Greens did better last time around) so there's still a little part of me that thinks I may hold my nose and vote strategically against Harper. Also, I'm a little older now and even though socially I'm more NDP, fiscally I'm probably more Liberal than I am Conservative or NDP. But that still leaves Iggy who I disliked from the first leadership convention.

I have a feeling I'm going to be undecided until the minute I cast my ballot, but whatever happens, I'm so happy to see the NDP gaining grounds as they are.

It's about time the Liberals and Conservatives realise that they no longer monopolise the country's political landscape and that they have to earn their keeps.

[cybercoma]

BC_Chick--I'm willing to bet when the votes start rolling in, even if the NDP doesn't win your riding you'll be surprised at how much support the end up getting. I say, if you want to vote for them, go ahead and do it. I don't believe the NDP is as "fiscally reckless" as they're made out to be. In any case, they would have their hands tied by a minority and Layton is the best leader to build bridges and make a minority work.

[capricorn]

The question is, will their lifelong animosity of the Cons cause them to go NDP, or will the hate of the fact that the NDP pushed them out make them go Con.

or will they stay home.

[Shakeyhands]

I'll be voting NDP, for two reasons.

1) Ignatieff has totally underwhelmed me from the third day or so of this campaign. Their platform is uninspiring with the exception of the Learning Passport. While I really dislike Harpers style and think their policies stink, the Liberals haven't offered me an alternative.

2) As I've mentioned here before, my riding has been one where the center left vote has been split by the Liberals and NDP, if that split hadn't occured the CPC candidate wouldn't have snuck in twice.

I guess I am parking my vote with the NDP for lack of a better term, I desperately want te Liberals to look long and hard at the results and do a proper post mortem. Come back with a plan, come back with some hope, come back with something... for the love of pete.

[betsy]

Mark Kelly, last night, fielded people in Vancouver market. Only 1 said she'll welcome an NDP-Liberal coalition. The rest were all saying they want Majority Conservatives.

One guy who said he's not really into partisanship said he doesn't believe that Harper has any agenda....that it's all just politics.

[betsy]

Well Betsy, this Liberal supporter is still very undecided.

When I was inspired by the Liberals and the NDP were irrelevant, the choice was easy. When I stopped being inspired by the Liberals, I still couldn't vote NDP because my riding is neck to neck CPC/LPC (with virtually no support for the NDP) so I really would be voting for the CPC if I voted NDP.

I still doubt the NDP have a chance in my riding (the Greens did better last time around) so there's still a little part of me that thinks I may hold my nose and vote strategically against Harper. Also, I'm a little older now and even though socially I'm more NDP, fiscally I'm probably more Liberal than I am Conservative or NDP. But that still leaves Iggy who I disliked from the first leadership convention.

I have a feeling I'm going to be undecided until the minute I cast my ballot, but whatever happens, I'm so happy to see the NDP gaining grounds as they are.

It's about time the Liberals and Conservatives realise that they no longer monopolise the country's political landscape and that they have to earn their keeps.

Dear BC Chick, (and all of you who still remain undecided), all I'm asking of you is to take a pause and think this through. You all know that I've been a staunch Harper supporter, but I speak to you as a citizen who's so much concerned about the outcome for our country.

If it had been a choice between the Liberals and the NDP (if situations were reversed between the Liberals and the Tories)....I am telling you that I'd vote Liberal....just so to prevent an NDP government.

We are still recovering from the economy. At least, even though personality-wise Harper is not appealing to you....nor you find him too controlling....at least we had seen him do his job for 5 years he's in office. The way he did it may not be so palatable, but you see that we didn't suffer so economy-wise, and we've been touted favorably, if not admirably for the way our economy is going compared to the rest of the world.

Will you let your personal distaste for Harper cloud your better judgement? Will you let it be the deciding factor.....opting for an NDP government who's yet been untested, knowingly it borders on socialism (if not downright socialist), with NDP MPs mostly inexperienced.

Remember what happened to Ontario during NDP reign.

We need someone who can at least see us through the difficult times ahead. We'll end up with huge taxes on our shoulders, with scared investors running off to other friendly countries....if the NDP ever wins.

All I ask is to reflect on this. You have the power in your hands to steer us through the right direction. Cnnsider and vote COnservatives.

[betsy]

Harper appealing to BLUE LIBERALS: Give Conservatives the majority so we can have a stable government.

We are facing difficult times ahead. The economic effect of a devastated Japan, the effect of revolts and uncertainty in the Middle East....the effects of natural disasters in parts of the world....all these will impact the whole world.

We are seeing the results. The gas prices are going up....we're seeing food prices soaring....all commodities will follow.

I don't fully understand the complexity of economics but all I understand are these:

We cannot go on a sky-high spending binge without us - the taxpayers - ending up picking the tab! How can we possibly afford to sustain all the promises of the NDP? When you look at each of these spendings....Jack's talking massive spendings for each and every policies!

Now is not the time to threaten and pick a fight with the wealthy! The wealthy are the ones who will invest!

It doesn't take much to imagine what will happen if our government is seen as hostile to corporations and the wealthy.

We are not the only island in the ocean. The wealthy will just as soon go somewhere else to invest....and numerous struggling countries will just be more than happy to have and accomodate them!

We do not need a government that's associated with socialism. Wealth-distribution and anti-business ideologies.

We'll end up losing big corporations....and we'll end up having only businesses that relies on being subsidized.

Canadian businesses are having a rough time competing as it is right now what with all the various restrictions that they face in Canada compared to other places....and what with all the cheap labor available to most parts of the world.

We don't have to think hard to imagine what the choices are for these businesses.

We need big corporations. They are the ones who provide thousands of employments! While there's nothing wrong with small businesses....how many small businesses do we need to equal the amount of employment huge corporations generate?

We live in a capitalist world, wether we want to or not. Raise the corporate tax.....who ends up paying for that?

Consumers. We'll be carrying that tab! Whom are we kidding?

Look at the policies of the NDP. Reflect on each one of them. How realistic is it to imagine that we can have all those out of thin air?

The scary part is the reality that no tax hike is ever just temporary! Once it's there, it stays there.

Just take a look at the GST! How difficult to get rid of it once it's revenue is relied on.

Liberals, you hold the power to steer us in the right direction.

Edited May 1, 2011 by betsy

[Molly]

Oh, good grief!

Blue Liberals vote Liberal because they can`t stomach CPC sleaze!

One complexity of economics you clearly haven`t grasped is that Harper Government^TM has been reaping credit for economic policies that preceeded him, and/or were forced upon him. His own legacy is billions of dollars of largely unnecessary debt. Yes, indeedy, We cannot go on a sky-high spending binge without us - the taxpayers - ending up picking the tab!

Edited May 1, 2011 by Molly

[betsy]

Oh, good grief!

Blue Liberals vote Liberal because they can`t stomach CPC sleaze!

One complexity of economics you clearly haven`t grasped is that Harper Government^TM has been reaping credit for economic policies that preceeded him, and/or were forced upon him. His own legacy is billions of dollars of largely unnecessary debt. Yes, indeedy, We cannot go on a sky-high spending binge without us - the taxpayers - ending up picking the tab!

That's he-said-he-said argument. What good will it do us both to dig into that?

What remains is this fact: Canada remained standing during the economic crisis we just had! Canada was one of the few, if not the only one, that emerged unscathed, compared to the devastations of other wealthy countries all over the world.

That's what count at this time! To maintain that. To go ahead with full recovery as our focused goal!

Where will we be same time next year if we get the NDP to come in and dismantle everything that's already been in place?

Just NDP's hostile stance against corporations alone will mean throwing all the stimulus packages we've spent so far....and we're back to square one, if not ending way down at the bottom of the heap!

Blue Liberals, please reflect on that. We desperately need a majority this time.

Edited May 1, 2011 by betsy

[CANADIEN]

That's he-said-he-said argument. What good will it do us both to dig into that?

What remains is this fact: Canada remained standing during the economic crisis we just had! Canada was one of the few, if not the only one, that emerged unscathed, compare to the devastations of other wealthy countries all over the world.

Thanks to Paul Martin. No thanks to Flaherty, who has brought back deficits, and whose government has engaged and is engaged in reckless, unnecessary spending.

Interesting that you mention the stimulus spending. The opposition parties basically had to force Flaherty's hand on this.

As for the fear of the big bag NDP. This is not the 1990's, and this is not the same NDP. The doom and gloom scenario is the reason why people jumping off the Liberal ship are not swimming the Conservative way.

The Conservative are, percentage wise, standing about exactly where they were on election night 1988. People switching from the Liberals are switching to the NDP right now. And it has less to do with Layton and his message and his program that with the arrogance and the naysaying and the gloomy scenarios they perceive in the Conservative discourse.

Edited May 1, 2011 by CANADIEN

[Molly]

Let there be no doubt: a CPC majority is a whole lot more frightening than an NDP government.

Social dinosaurs with an inclination to profligate spending? That`s the worst of all worlds.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Molly

[betsy]

That's he-said-he-said argument. What good will it do us both to dig into that?

What remains is this fact: Canada remained standing during the economic crisis we just had! Canada was one of the few, if not the only one, that emerged unscathed, compare to the devastations of other wealthy countries all over the world.

Thanks to Paul Martin. No thanks to Flaherty, who has brought back deficits, and whose government has engaged and is engaged in reckless, unnecessary spending.

Interesting that you mention the stimulus spending. The opposition parties basically had to force Flaherty's hand on this.

That's another argument that I'm sure had been debated in this forum!

All that, water under the bridge at this point....when we're foised to make one big decision tomorrow that will see us either maintaining a steady course (that hopefully will see us through a full recovery), or suddenly plummetting down.

This fact however, remains: Canada remained standing during the economic crisis we just had! Canada was one of the few, if not the only one, that emerged unscathed, compare to the devastations of other wealthy countries all over the world

As for the fear of the big bag NDP. This is not the 1990's, and this is not the same NDP. The doom and gloom scenario is the reason why pople jumping off the Liberal ship are not swimming the Conservative way.

Is this the time to gamble just so to find out whether you're right? That this is not the same NDP?

Are the stakes not too high that we'll experiment trying out NDP....with most of its MPs very inexperienced (just like that lady running in Quebec who's spending the time in Vegas during the campaign?), and not that seriously considering the enormity of the responsibility since they never thought they'd ever get to this incredible turn of events that makes actually becoming involved in the governing process a real big possibility.

The NDP were as surprised as we are about their surge. Their MPs seemed to have just been picked willy-nilly just so to have representation in ridings...because they never expected to win anyway. I don't know about you....but that's really scary to me. We're not facing normal times. We need experienced people to tackle the current situation.

The Conservative are, percentage wise, standing about exactly where they were on election night 1988. People switching from the Liberals are switching to the NDP right now. And it has less to do with Laytoin and his message and his program that with the arrogance and the naysaying and the gloomy scenarios they perceive in the Conservative discourse.

Nanos poll last night got them up from 35% to 38%. NDP got down a bit from 30% to 28%. I am trying to muster optimism that people are re-thinking the whole thing.

Giving the Cons a majority means only 4 years in governing. Why not give it a chance to prove itself...after all they're the ones at the helm during the economic crisis. IF they prove unsatisfactory to you, you can replace them next election with the party of your choice.

Blue Liberals, consider the consequences of an NDP-led government. Give the Conservatives the majority.

Edited May 1, 2011 by betsy

[CANADIEN]

Is this the time to gamble just so to find out whether you're right? That this is not the same NDP?

Well, you're asking people to gamble that the Conservatiives will magically stop their reckless spending and bullying ways if they get a majority.

We're not facing normal times. We need experienced people to tackle the current situation.

Harper and Flaherty have plenty of experience. Still doesn't stop them from spending money on jails that are not needed, or more money that is needed on planes (and don't get me wrong, we need those). And the experience they have is in opaqueness, contempt of democratic institutions, and political bullying.

Nanos poll last night got them up from 35% to 38%. NDP got down a bit from 30% to 28%. I am trying to muster optimism that people are re-thinking the whole thing.

And this morning, Nanos gives the Conservatives at 37% and the NDP back just over 30%.

Giving the Cons a majority means only 4 years in governing. (...) IF they prove unsatisfactory to you, you can replace them next election with the party of your choice.

Same with the NDP.

[scribblet]

Let there be no doubt: a CPC majority is a whole lot more frightening than an NDP government.

Social dinosaurs with an inclination to profligate spending? That`s the worst of all worlds.

That's your opinion, to me it's the other way around LOL

[bloodyminded]

The right side of the Liberal party will start to move toward the Tories very soon.

But probably not in the next 30 hours.

[CANADIEN]

But probably not in the next 30 hours.

Are you sure? I think it is entirely possible, same as flying bodily fluids at the Pride Parade.