Time for jack to stand up and tell the truth.

[eyeball]

Not sure... I thought pot was $80B in Canada... maybe not.

If we substitute a tax on marijuana cigarettes equal to the difference between the local production cost and the street price people currently pay--that is, transfer the revenue from the current producers and marketers (many of whom work with organized crime) to the government, leaving all other marketing and transportation issues aside we would have revenue of (say) $7 per [unit]. If you could collect on every cigarette and ignore the transportation, marketing, and advertising costs, this comes to over $2 billion on Canadian sales and substantially more from an export tax, and you forego the costs of enforcement and deploy your policing assets elsewhere.

Link

As for the inevitable chest-pains and diarrhea we'll hear about the billions and billions in new health care costs that will be caused by smoking pot the government could just sell brownies instead of joints.

With governments scrambling to find new sources of revenue to pay for important social objectives such as health care and education expect to see the idea raised in Parliament sooner rather than later.

Given the mood for tectonic shifting at play in Canada at the moment, the time could never be riper.

Edited April 27, 2011 by eyeball

[KeyStone]

Where is all the money going to come from for all his promises?

Well, let's start with the 30 billion they won't be spending on fighter jets, and the other 10 billion that won't be lost to corporate tax cuts. Once that runs out, we can have a conversation.

Where are the jobs going to come from when the corporations leave when he raises the tax to 19or so %.

Where is it exactly that you think they are going to? The US has higher tax rates than us.

The kind of industry that we excel at doesn't do well in Bangladesh or Chile.

The oil, forestry and mining companies, can't exactly pick up shop.

"Owners do not take pay cuts, they just pass it on to the consumer."

So, by that same logic, owners could raise prices anytime they want to, and then they would make more money.

Are you daft man? If the owners could raise prices, and make more money, that's exactly what they would do.

"Do people here understand what cap and trade(carbon tax) will do, do you not think energy and hydro and food is expensive enough."

If I eat my lunch in the park, I clean it up. If the government has to pay to clean up for people who leave their garbage in the park, then those people should have to pay. The same rule applies to polluters. If you pollute the country, you should pay more than a company that does not pollute. Why should all companies subsidize the clean-up costs for the polluters?

"Can the people of this country hold on while we experiment with a socialist goverment, that has bankrupt ONT and BC,"

Well, this is just made up. Might as well accuse the NDP of planning an alien invasion while you are at it.

"Can everyone here afford to pay more for health care for immigrant's parents and grand parents that are going to come here and have ,to jump right into our health care system, ahead of canadians that have worked hard and long"

This point has some merit. We can't be taking eighty year old people into the country that have never paid a dime into our system, and spend hundreds of thousands if not millions on their health care costs. Hopefully, Jack will find a more sustainable solution. Regardless, health care in general needs an overhaul. We can't keep up with the boomers.

[TimG]

Well, let's start with the 30 billion they won't be spending on fighter jets, and the other 10 billion that won't be lost to corporate tax cuts. Once that runs out, we can have a conversation.

There is no way the corporate tax cuts will save $10 billion. And new fighter jets are are necessity. Buying them later will only make the more expensive.

Where is it exactly that you think they are going to? The US has higher tax rates than us.

So lets tax them at 50% if you are so convinced the can;t move. Corporate tax rates matter - that is why Layton is reducing the small business tax rates. The increasing corporate taxes will cost jobs.

If I eat my lunch in the park, I clean it up. If the government has to pay to clean up for people who leave their garbage in the park, then those people should have to pay.

You are assuming that there is agreement on whether CO2 is actually a pollutant and there is no agreement on what the costs of this pollution might be. What that means the cap and trade system is really nothing but an excuse to suck money out of West and use it to pay all those Quebec nationalists which Layton has been bribing for the last month. Edited April 27, 2011 by TimG

[Scotty]

As a business owner I have to say the numbers scare the hell out of me. If the ndp end up in a true coalition with Layton at the head, which one of the poles was showing today our country is screwed.

Oh, I doubt that. There's only so much a party can do before the next election, especially in a minority. And a left wing government need not be a disaster if it's a practical, common sense outfit. Look at the nordic countries, as an example (though they have their ideologically stupid flaws).

Problem is, the NDP has never struck me as a common sense bunch. Layton and his brethren are holdovers from the 'eat the rich' class warfare fifties, lost in the past, with ludicrously naive beliefs about business and the economy. Look at their promise to force the banks to drop interest rates on credit cards to 5%. First thing that would happen, everyone without a really, really good credit report would get their cards revoked. No poor people would be able to get credit. Does Jack think about that? Nope. Punish the banks! It sounds good, right? Simplistic and stupid, like most of the NDPs economic policies.

[Scotty]

Yah, okay, and also confirmed it was a junior summer internship and meant as a chance for young people to gain some experience. Big scandal!

[Scotty]

Well, let's start with the 30 billion they won't be spending on fighter jets, and the other 10 billion that won't be lost to corporate tax cuts. Once that runs out, we can have a conversation.

Layton has said Canada needs fighter jets, so he will be buying some, and despite what you may have heard, there really aren't any much cheaper than the F35s. As for 'saving' money on corporate tax cuts, even they estimate it at only $6billion, and that forgets that most of that money would have come back to us anyway in the form of taxes on shareholders, or on additional economic activity. So where are your savings now?

[eyeball]

Look at their promise to force the banks to drop interest rates on credit cards to 5%. First thing that would happen, everyone without a really, really good credit report would get their cards revoked.

So what you're saying is that the banks would punish themselves even more?

By the way, wouldn't this also compel poor people to learn to live within their means? I thought that was a long-standing hope of anti-socialists everywhere.

[August1991]

So what you're saying is that the banks would punish themselves even more?

By the way, wouldn't this also compel poor people to learn to live within their means? I thought that was a long-standing hope of anti-socialists everywhere.

You confuse poor people with people who have bad/unknown credit risks.

The better comparison would be to imagine a policy that limited car insurance premiums to $75 a month. If there were such a price limit, who would car insurance companies accept as clients?

----

The NDP's platform is filled with nonsense. First of all, it wants to continue with the federal loan guarantee for the Lower Churchill Falls project and yet this policy is roundly unpopular in Quebec.

The NDP wants to stop all "subsidies" to the oilsands. IOW, the NDP wants to impose higher taxes on these energy sources and subsidize solar and wind energy. Other than the fact that this is an intrusion into provincial jurisdiction, this amounts to taxing a productive sector of the economy to subsidize an unproductive sector.

Paradoxically, Layton also wants to remove sales taxes on home-heating oil. Where does the oil come from? What about CO2 emissions?

Layton also wants to double CPP/QPP payments and increase the GIS. The GIS in particular amounts to taxing the frugal to pay for the profligate.

----

With Layton, I feel that I am in a time warp back to the 1970s. When every other country in the western world is realizing that wall-to-wall government subsidies just don't work and will eventually bankrupt any government that attempts them, Layton and the NDP blithely imagine they're the wave of the future.

[Scotty]

So what you're saying is that the banks would punish themselves even more?

They wouldn't be punishing themselves. The banks make money off the poor and lousy credit risk because of those high interest rates, despite the high number of defaulters. Lower the interest rates, and you lower their profit cushion. That means they'll start being a lot more choosey in who they give credit cards to.

By the way, wouldn't this also compel poor people to learn to live within their means? I thought that was a long-standing hope of anti-socialists everywhere.

That sort of mentality is, in fact, one of the issues I have with socialists; their belief - I'd call it a God given belief except they're mostly not religious - in their own right to control other people's lives and what they do - FOR THEIR OWN GOOD.

[PIK]

What is jack promising to the separtists, he seems to be a soft separtist, and did I hear him at one time that 50+1 is enough for quebec to go? We have a separtist gov taking over quebec in the next election and if jack is the power broker ,quebec may get what ever they want, something is fishY about the love for jack in quebec. Listen very carefully to what he says about quebec. I strongly belEive if jack gets in, this country will be flat broke in 2 years and then we will have to get mike harris to take over the federal cons and go thru the tough times again to clean it up just like in ONT.

Edited April 27, 2011 by PIK

[The_Squid]

Yah, okay, and also confirmed it was a junior summer internship and meant as a chance for young people to gain some experience. Big scandal!

Except for one important detail. The job -"very junior," remember, and suitable for someone with no skills or experience -paid at least $53,700 a year. It takes a teacher in B.C. four years to reach that level.

No matter how you feel about the hiring process, that should rankle.

Read more: http://www.timescolonist.com/news/decision-canada/Nice+work/4645676/story.html#ixzz1Kk2jJtgj

If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

Interns and students for Federal departments, if they are in the sciences and not just some glorified receptionist, make about $15 to $18 per hour. Not $50 grand + per year!! I've recently hired students that have also worked for DFO and Environment Canada and I used to be one (many moons ago). They don't make 50 grand!!!

[KeyStone]

There is no way the corporate tax cuts will save $10 billion.

Well, that depends on whether or not the Conservatives plan to lower then further during their term.

It's going to be very significant regardless.

And new fighter jets are are necessity. Buying them later will only make the more expensive.

They will certainly be necessary if we want to go into all the wars that Harper would sign us up for. With a non-hawk government, we won't need as many.

So lets tax them at 50% if you are so convinced the can't move.

Well, maybe the companies that are taking Canadian oil and minerals out of the ground should pay 50% tax. They're making money off of depleting non-renewable resources that belong to the Canadian people. Hugo Chavez did something similar and despite all the fearmongering, Venezuela is doing just fine.

Corporate tax rates matter - that is why Layton is reducing the small business tax rates. The increasing corporate taxes will cost jobs.

The corporations always say these things, but ultimately the tax rate doesn't affect the profitability of hiring an employee. It only affects how much money ends up in the pockets of the owners, once all costs are paid for. In terms of affecting jobs, there may be slightly less investment in Canada as a result. Businesses picking up and moving to Ireland to avoid an additional two percent tax, are going to be pretty few and far between. Instead of worrying about helping businesses making lots of money, let's help businesses to survive, by lowering things like payroll taxes, and improving our health care, and CPP so that business don't have to pay for those, for their employees.

You are assuming that there is agreement on whether CO2 is actually a pollutant and there is no agreement on what the costs of this pollution might be.

Not everyone agrees. Heck, there is a group called the Flat Earth society that thinks this round earth stuff is just a bunch of socialist nonsense. But, it's been pretty well established by this point. The nations of the world agrees that carbon emissions need to be lowered, we're just not sure who is going to take on the burden.

What that means the cap and trade system is really nothing but an excuse to suck money out of West and use it to pay all those Quebec nationalists which Layton has been bribing for the last month.

If Alberta has so much money, that they can have the lowest tax rates, have no PST, and give everyone a cash bonus, then yes, they can afford to clean up their own mess.

[KeyStone]

Increased spending on social programs means increased cost through an increase bureaucracy. Corporate tax hikes means jobs lost which means less money to pay into social programs which means increasing taxes again.

Spending on social programs can be good for businesses, who no longer have to pay for medical expenses, pensions etc. This is a big part of the reason why many auto-manufacturing companies have located here.

The U.S is already showing heavy job losses as corporations pull out for greener pastures in Sweden and Ireland and the like thanks to the high corporate taxes.

And how is that low tax rate working out for Ireland? They are on the verge of bankruptcy, and they have to be bailed out by the EU.

As for Sweden, you know that they have some of the highest tax rates in the world, right?

They aren't moving to Sweden, for the tax breaks. They're moving there for educated employees, infrastructure, and health care benefits.

Canadians have started to lean heavily on the government for everything from child care to retirement. The system is near the breaking point and will only get worse if the path is not continued as planned by not only Harper but the previous Liberal government as well.

Funny, we had seven budget surpluses in a row before your Conservatives took over. As long as we stop this march to lower taxes to complete, we'll be fine. If we had a nation with free medical, dental, education, and a good pension plan, a lot of good business would locate here for the skilled employees, and the fact that they wouldn't need medical plans.

What do you think happens when we lower our taxes to "compete". Other nations do the same thing. Then we all have about the same proportion of businesses that we started with, but with much less tax revenues, creating massive shortages or public funding worldwide. Do you honestly think that enterpeneurs with a great idea, decide not to start a business because they have to pay 18% tax on the profits, rather than 16%? No. All the tax rate does is take businesses from other nations. It's a zero sum game, and the only ones winning with this international price war is business owners, at the expense of government coffers and public services.

[cybercoma]

If Keystone had a blog, I would read it.

[capricorn]

Henceforth, it will be more difficult for reporters to press Layton with specific policy questions.

As the NDP continues to surge in the polls, Jack Layton is being grilled with tougher policy questions and the party is clamping down on communications.

---

The NDP is now tightening the reins on its communications strategy. The plug was pulled earlier than usual on Wednesday’s media availability, which left some reporters disgruntled. Communications advisors said Layton answered questions for almost 15 minutes and the session was called because it had started to rain.

Observers say the party wants to prevent mistakes in the final week.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/decision2011/2011/04/27/18074111.html

The moral is that when politicians start to be taken seriously by the media and the public, they soon lose their love of microphones and stages.

[cybercoma]

Layton answered questions for 15 minutes before it started to rain and they called the session. That's still 13 minutes longer than the four questions Stephen Harper would have answered and he was the Prime Minister for crying out loud.

[ninjandrew]

If Keystone had a blog, I would read it.

Agreed! Half the forum can retire from posting.

[TimG]

They will certainly be necessary if we want to go into all the wars that Harper would sign us up for. With a non-hawk government, we won't need as many.

Gee. Last time I checked it was Obama, the darling of progressives, that started bombing Libya. It was Clinton in Bosnia. Afghanistan is a ground war - we did not need fighter support there. IOW. We need fighters for the wars that progressives like to fight.

Well, maybe the companies that are taking Canadian oil and minerals out of the ground should pay 50% tax. They're making money off of depleting non-renewable resources that belong to the Canadian people. Hugo Chavez did something similar and despite all the fearmongering, Venezuela is doing just fine.

The policies of the state have killed exploration and they are having a tough time keeping their rigs going. The are riding high because oil is high but and Chavez can bribe people with 20cent gas (gee, I guess Chavez this AGW is a low priority too). They will crash and burn.

Instead of worrying about helping businesses making lots of money, let's help businesses to survive, by lowering things like payroll taxes, and improving our health care, and CPP so that business don't have to pay for those, for their employees.

I agree with this. But that is not what Layton is doing. He is promising to raise payroll taxes by doubling the CPP.

But, it's been pretty well established by this point. The nations of the world agrees that carbon emissions need to be lowered, we're just not sure who is going to take on the burden.

You are wrong. All of the nations have agreed to many meanless statements about lowering CO2 emissions. None have done much about it. Even Germany has choose to abandon its GHG targets so it can close down its nukes. You should expect to see the same in Japan. Why should we do anything when the rest of the world is going in the other direction?

If Alberta has so much money, that they can have the lowest tax rates, have no PST, and give everyone a cash bonus, then yes, they can afford to clean up their own mess.

Alberta has money because it does not pissed it away on $7/day daycare and billion dollar green energy boondongles. If Quebec wants to have social programs they can pay for it themselves. Edited April 27, 2011 by TimG

[nittanylionstorm07]

Gee. Last time I checked it was Obama, the darling of progressives, that started bombing Libya. It was Clinton in Bosnia. Afghanistan is a ground war - we did not need fighter support there. IOW. We need fighters for the wars that progressives like to fight.

You're getting desperate. Neither Obama nor Clinton are progressive Canadian leaders. Also lol @ your exclusion of Afghanistan and no mention of Iraq. Complete and utter delusion.

[capricorn]

That's still 13 minutes longer than the four questions Stephen Harper would have answered and he was the Prime Minister for crying out loud.

Milewski alone asks Harper 3 to 4 questions at once.

[capricorn]

Half the forum can retire from posting.

At least half of the new members will retire from posting after the election results come in.

[Scotty]

What is jack promising to the separtists, he seems to be a soft separtist, and did I hear him at one time that 50+1 is enough for quebec to go?

Well, he's promising to expand Bill 101 into federal jurisdictions. I'm sure that'll make the french nationalists happy.

[PIK]

Layton answered questions for 15 minutes before it started to rain and they called the session. That's still 13 minutes longer than the four questions Stephen Harper would have answered and he was the Prime Minister for crying out loud.

You need time when you promise the world to everyone. Take a look at the economic policies jack has come up with thru the years, that is his weak point. Lets ruin the country because jack reminds me of my grandfather, give me a break. When staying the course there is not much to say. We all know whatr harper is doing, and what he is doing is saving this country.

[cybercoma]

Jesus. Do you have a monkey in a fez hat playing the violin as you post that crap?

[Scotty]

If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

Interns and students for Federal departments, if they are in the sciences and not just some glorified receptionist, make about $15 to $18 per hour. Not $50 grand + per year!! I've recently hired students that have also worked for DFO and Environment Canada and I used to be one (many moons ago). They don't make 50 grand!!!

But the job wasn't at DFO it was in the minister's office. It was a political job, not a public service job, and ministers and MPs pay their political staff whatever they choose to.

BTW, a CR4, a clerk, in the federal government is currently paid $50,000 (annual) at the top level. I assume this person was being hired at a level above that, junior officer type equivalent. Again, this is immensely petty compared to the real issues people ought to be basing their votes on.