g_bambino Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 IF you are brought into the national family through marriage - or as a new and adopted citize...It MUST be formalized - socially and lawfully. As for that act of parliment..that is not the issue here - It's a case of IS.....the wife of Ignatieff part of our extended national family or is she loyal primarily to her place of origin - Her original family? The Act of Parliament isn't the issue, no. Your claim that Ignatieff's family isn't Canadian is the point I addressed, to which the Act of Parliament is relevant, given that you seem to believe nobody is "part of the national family" until they've been "formally" and "legally" accepted, which seems like code for: met the requirements of the Citizenship Act. If my interpretation is right, you ergo hold that one's nationality is defined solely by an Act of Parliament. My question was: is that really the case? Nationality can also be a personal matter; Scots are of a nation, but there's no such thing as Scottish citizenship. The same for the Quebecois, Basques, and Inuit. What of permanent residency? Conversely, there are people who are Canadian citizens according to the Citizenship Act, yet have never set foot in Canada and likely don't feel at all like Canadians. My point is: it can be said with certainty that Ignatieff's wife isn't a Canadian citizen. But, is she absolutely not Canadian? What's to say she's not a "part of our extended national family" just because she doesn't have a piece of paper? (Within the context of this debate, though, the question is pointless, since her "Canadianness" has no bearing on Ignatieff and his ability to be prime minister.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted April 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 And what governmental role does the spouse of the prime mininster have, August?Ask Cherie Blair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 I knew you were going to say that. My mother fashioned herself after that Gabor's - AND mum bless her soul was flashy and a phoney when it came to presention. The Gabor Sisters were a product of their time and another immigrant success story. American television and radio were a very good fit for them. The point of this is similar to whether Obama was born in America...if not - then thumbs down - If Iggy did not respect this nation enough to make sure that his spouse become a citizen then that show - not the empowering of the Canadian nation but the dis-empowerment of it - I would say thumbs down on Iggy for this slight and slight of hand. No...I think the issue here is citizenship. John McCain wasn't "born in America" either. Ignatieff's wife is a fun but short lived distraction, and not as relevant as Dion's French citizenship by way of his mother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRightWing Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 The Gabor Sisters were a product of their time and another immigrant success story. American television and radio were a very good fit for them. No...I think the issue here is citizenship. John McCain wasn't "born in America" either. Ignatieff's wife is a fun but short lived distraction, and not as relevant as Dion's French citizenship by way of his mother. All in all, it's a non issue. Ignatieff is a moron anyway and none of this will matter in the long run. He should really change his name to Ignotgonnawinfuckall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Ask Cherie Blair. No, I asked you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 All in all, it's a non issue. Ignatieff is a moron anyway and none of this will matter in the long run. He should really change his name to Ignotgonnawinfuckall His family name if after Saint Ignatius....wonder how saintly he really is.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRightWing Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 His family name if after Saint Ignatius....wonder how saintly he really is.. Saintly enough to work with the goddamned Bloc Quebecois. Traitor to the nation. You know its a testament to the freedoms of Canada that my tax money is paying these treacherous bastards a yearly salary, benefits and pension to tear the country up based on sentiments from the 14th century Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 The Gabor Sisters were a product of their time and another immigrant success story. American television and radio were a very good fit for them. No...I think the issue here is citizenship. John McCain wasn't "born in America" either. Ignatieff's wife is a fun but short lived distraction, and not as relevant as Dion's French citizenship by way of his mother. Jezz which I could have a "fun but short lived distraction" - BC - he is supposedly married to the woman - he shares a bed with her..Could you imagine if say JFK or Obama...had a wife that was say for ----- Kenya for instance...that would be a travesty...nawh - everyone is wrong on this matter...If I were to get married no way in hell is the woman going to stick in a hyphenated version of the sir names - she is either in or out ...so much for the in and out I suppose - but we have laws - If you are boning her - she had better pay up with her dignity and identity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Saintly enough to work with the goddamned Bloc Quebecois. Traitor to the nation. You know its a testament to the freedoms of Canada that my tax money is paying these treacherous bastards a yearly salary, benefits and pension to tear the country up based on sentiments from the 14th century I'm sure the English thought the same thing about that Irish rabble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRightWing Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 I'm sure the English thought the same thing about that Irish rabble. Please explain your statement a little further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Saintly enough to work with the goddamned Bloc Quebecois. Traitor to the nation. Just like Stephen Harper, by that logic. And on, and on, and on it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRightWing Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Just like Stephen Harper, by that logic. And on, and on, and on it goes. When did Stephen Harper try to form a coalition with the Bloc Quebecois. I'll be waiting for your answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 (edited) When did Stephen Harper try to form a coalition with the Bloc Quebecois. You didn't say "coalition with", you said "work with". Ignatieff never tried to form a coalition with the Bloc, either, BTW. [+] Edited April 7, 2011 by g_bambino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRightWing Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 You didn't say "coalition with", you said "work with". Ignatieff never tried to form a coalition with the Bloc, either, BTW. [+] A fair point. But Ignatieff knows he'll never win a majority in Parliament, so how does he intend to become Prime Minister? It's blatantly obvious since the NDP, Liberals and Bloc aren't attacking eachother, they intend to form a coalition to defeat the Conservatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 A fair point. But Ignatieff knows he'll never win a majority in Parliament, so how does he intend to become Prime Minister? It's blatantly obvious since the NDP, Liberals and Bloc aren't attacking eachother, they intend to form a coalition to defeat the Conservatives. Could we get your definition of "coalition"? For instance, if the Tories get, say, the NDP to support a piece of legislation, is that a coalition? If the answer is yes, then what you wrote above is consistent, even if it isn't really an accurate use of the word in the parliamentary sense. If the answer is no, then what you wrote above is rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 I'm sure the English thought the same thing about that Irish rabble. The Irish were a nasty bunch - The only real Irish left are the onces that passed out under the table and were missed during the geoncide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRightWing Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 (edited) Could we get your definition of "coalition"? For instance, if the Tories get, say, the NDP to support a piece of legislation, is that a coalition? If the answer is yes, then what you wrote above is consistent, even if it isn't really an accurate use of the word in the parliamentary sense. If the answer is no, then what you wrote above is rubbish. The simple answer to your question is, what does it take in Parliament to make one a prime minister. Lets look at England ATM for your answer. I'll be waiting. Edited April 7, 2011 by TheRightWing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 But Ignatieff knows he'll never win a majority in Parliament, so how does he intend to become Prime Minister? Whatever way is legal and politically advantageous, I imagine. Just like Harper now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 The simple answer to your question is, what does it take in Parliament to make one a prime minister. Lets look at England ATM for your answer. I'll be waiting. What it takes depends on the circumstances: 1. Winning a majority of seats in the House of Commons is a guaranteed route. 2. Winning the largest bloc of seats in most cases will get you there, though tradition does say that the incumbent Prime Minister has some right to try to form a government, so this rule is a little iffy. Being able to put together a stable coalition in such a situation all but guarantees that the incumbent PM will resign (that's what happened in the UK last year). 3. Toppling the current government can, even where you do not have the largest seat count, deliver you the office. There is precedent for this (ie. the King-Byng Affair), although such an event would likely have to happen soon after an election, because another precedent (the second 1974 election in the UK and the collapse of the Joe Clark minority in 1979) seems to set the bar at at least nine months whereby the GG would likely call an election rather than pick a new government from the existing Parliament. This one gets trickier, but it's hard to imagine, if the Tories are defeated at the end of May, that the Governor General would subject the country to another election. Is that clear enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRightWing Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 What it takes depends on the circumstances: 1. Winning a majority of seats in the House of Commons is a guaranteed route. 2. Winning the largest bloc of seats in most cases will get you there, though tradition does say that the incumbent Prime Minister has some right to try to form a government, so this rule is a little iffy. Being able to put together a stable coalition in such a situation all but guarantees that the incumbent PM will resign (that's what happened in the UK last year). 3. Toppling the current government can, even where you do not have the largest seat count, deliver you the office. There is precedent for this (ie. the King-Byng Affair), although such an event would likely have to happen soon after an election, because another precedent (the second 1974 election in the UK and the collapse of the Joe Clark minority in 1979) seems to set the bar at at least nine months whereby the GG would likely call an election rather than pick a new government from the existing Parliament. This one gets trickier, but it's hard to imagine, if the Tories are defeated at the end of May, that the Governor General would subject the country to another election. Is that clear enough? So you're saying a political coalition is not impossible then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 So you're saying a political coalition is not impossible then? Then Harper would have what he wanted - a unitied front with more centalized federal power...maybe that's the game they are playing...and that would explain the exclution of May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 So you're saying a political coalition is not impossible then? Not impossible, but not necessary either. Iggy could conceivably attempt to govern without a formal coalition (a formal coalition is where the junior party(ies) have cabinet positions), or an informal one (some sort of a vote agreement with one or more opposition parties) or on a vote-by-vote basis (as the Tories have done). I'm not saying that the two latter ways of governing would be routes to a government of any longevity, but there is certainly precedent for the second-largest party forming a government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 I don't think it should have any bearing on things right now.....but it will to a very small degree. Rightly or wrongly, it's just one more element that will case a few more Canadians to fall off the fence and decide that he's not "Canadian enough". It doesn't have to be fair....that's just the way it is. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeyhands Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 I'd like my two minutes back please.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 I'd like my two minutes back please.... Here take three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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