GE Will pay no TAXES on its US earnings.

[no1ninja]

Here is a perfect example of how the system is stacked against the American tax payer. I really feel bad for them, their middle class is getting looted left right and centre. They got the media spinning that the Union's are the problem, and those workers actually spend more than they earn in to their local economies.

Meanwhile the GE chief heads Obama's economic panel. GE also agreed to take US jobs and move them to China and make engine parts there on parts it only holds patents for to have more access to the Chinese market. The system down there is so out of control and stacked for the corp that its only a matter of time before they implode. The lobbying is so ferocious that most Americans are ready to vilify the teacher and praise the CEO.

They have been sold their doom, and below is the perfect example.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/business/economy/25tax.html?_r=1&hp

G.E.’s Strategies Let It Avoid Taxes Altogether

By DAVID KOCIENIEWSKI

Published: March 24, 2011

The company reported worldwide profits of $14.2 billion, and said $5.1 billion of the total came from its operations in the United States.

Its American tax bill? None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.

That may be hard to fathom for the millions of American business owners and households now preparing their own returns, but low taxes are nothing new for G.E. The company has been cutting the percentage of its American profits paid to the Internal Revenue Service for years, resulting in a far lower rate than at most multinational companies.

Its extraordinary success is based on an aggressive strategy that mixes fierce lobbying for tax breaks and innovative accounting that enables it to concentrate its profits offshore. G.E.’s giant tax department, led by a bow-tied former Treasury official named John Samuels, is often referred to as the world’s best tax law firm. Indeed, the company’s slogan “Imagination at Work” fits this department well. The team includes former officials not just from the Treasury, but also from the I.R.S. and virtually all the tax-writing committees in Congress.

.... (middle of story at the source)...

While G.E.’s declining tax rates have bolstered profits and helped the company continue paying dividends to shareholders during the economic downturn, some tax experts question what taxpayers are getting in return. Since 2002, the company has eliminated a fifth of its work force in the United States while increasing overseas employment. In that time, G.E.’s accumulated offshore profits have risen to $92 billion from $15 billion.

“That G.E. can almost set its own tax rate shows how very much we need reform,” said Representative Lloyd Doggett, Democrat of Texas, who has proposed closing many corporate tax shelters. “Our tax system should encourage job creation and investment in America and end these tax incentives for exporting jobs and dodging responsibility for the cost of securing our country.”

Edited March 26, 2011 by no1ninja

[SF/PF]

It gets worse...

Michigan to lower corporate tax, raise personal tax

Business taxes would be cut by 86 percent from an estimated $2.1 billion in FY 2011 to $292.7 million in FY 2013, the first full year of the proposed tax changes…Taxes on individuals from the state income tax would rise by $1.7 billion or nearly 31 percent, from an estimated $5.75 billion in FY 2011 to $7.5 billion in FY 2013, the first full year of the tax changes.

As the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy found, the practical upshot of Snyders tax increases is to place even more of a burden on Michigans poorest residents, who will see a bigger hike than those at the upper end of the income scale:

....

Michigan already has a regressive tax system, which Snyders proposal will only make worse. Currently, someone in the poorest 20 percent of Michigan taxpayers pays a tax rate of 8.9 percent, while someone in the richest one percent pays 5.3 percent.

Of course, thats actually the "good" part of Snyder's plan:

Snyder has also asked that the state be given the power to dismiss local government and appoint emergency town managers who could break contracts and strip powers from elected officials.

Edited March 26, 2011 by SF/PF

[bush_cheney2004]

Here is a perfect example of how the system is stacked against the American tax payer. I really feel bad for them, their middle class is getting looted left right and centre. They got the media spinning that the Union's are the problem, and those workers actually spend more than they earn in to their local economies.

Why are you feeling bad "for them"? Who do you think gets the entitlements?

Meanwhile the GE chief heads Obama's economic panel. GE also agreed to take US jobs and move them to China and make engine parts there on parts it only holds patents for to have more access to the Chinese market. The system down there is so out of control and stacked for the corp that its only a matter of time before they implode. The lobbying is so ferocious that most Americans are ready to vilify the teacher and praise the CEO.

Jobs were moved to Canada too...but that's OK...right? What is a "US job"?

GE Canada

Edited March 26, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[Michael Hardner]

Why are you feeling bad "for them"? Who do you think gets the entitlements?

Jobs were moved to Canada too...but that's OK...right? What is a "US job"?

GE Canada

GE jobs were moved to Canada ? Does it say that in your link ? I don't see it.

[bush_cheney2004]

GE jobs were moved to Canada ? Does it say that in your link ? I don't see it.

Why is there a "GE Canada"? What is a "US job"? Why was the lost of such jobs to Canada and Mexico under NAFTA OK, bit not to China?

US call center jobs move offshore, and that includes Canada:

http://news.cnet.com/U.S.-call-center-jobs-moving-to-Canada/2100-1011_3-5325500.html

Edited March 26, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[WIP]

We have so much evidence now that supply side economic theory and economic globalization have been scams that have robbed from the poor and enriched the wealthiest 1% over the last 30 years, that it's time for the 95% majority that have seen real incomes decline to push back against the policies that reduce corporate taxes, investment income, and income taxes on the highest income earners, while increasing user fees, sales taxes, and other regressive tax policies that take more money from average working people.

In the specific case of G.E.; this corporation and others like Exxon and Haliburton, which also use fake oversees addresses to shelter profits from taxation, should be faced with the threat of having their corporate charters dissolved and replaced with new ownership that pays their fair share of taxes.

[Michael Hardner]

Why is there a "GE Canada"? What is a "US job"? Why was the lost of such jobs to Canada and Mexico under NAFTA OK, bit not to China?

US call center jobs move offshore, and that includes Canada:

http://news.cnet.com/U.S.-call-center-jobs-moving-to-Canada/2100-1011_3-5325500.html

You respond to my question with 3 of your own. Answers:

1. Ask GE.

2. Onshore job in US territory paying US income tax, I guess.

3. It's OK with me. We have to gain some jobs under NAFTA...

[Michael Hardner]

Call centre jobs:

"Good day, sir, what are you calling aboot today ?"

I guess the US likes our accent better than India's.

[bush_cheney2004]

...In the specific case of G.E.; this corporation and others like Exxon and Haliburton, which also use fake oversees addresses to shelter profits from taxation, should be faced with the threat of having their corporate charters dissolved and replaced with new ownership that pays their fair share of taxes.

What is a "fair share"? How is this determined?

GE and other corporations will continue to legally avoid tax liability, if only as sound business strategy.

[August1991]

Here is a perfect example of how the system is stacked against the American tax payer.

Hey, wait a second. GE shareholders have to pay tax on any dividends GE paid out. If you made any capital gains on shares held, you paid tax on that.

It is wrong to say that "GE pays no tax on its US Earnings". GE is a corporation and the government can only collect taxes from people. All corporate taxes fall on shareholders, employees or customers. (If you have figured out a way to tax non-humans, I suggest that you go into politics. You will be impressively popular. I suggest that you start by making dogs pay their fair share of taxes.)

----

If you feel that rich people pay too little tax, than that's a different argument. But at least be clear.

Edited March 26, 2011 by August1991

[bush_cheney2004]

You respond to my question with 3 of your own. Answers:

1. Ask GE.

2. Onshore job in US territory paying US income tax, I guess.

3. It's OK with me. We have to gain some jobs under NAFTA...

A clever avoidance, but begs the larger question. "US jobs" going to GE China or GE Canada is the same to me. The underlyng message is that some Canadians don't fear the loss of "US jobs" at all, but fear the loss of "Canadian jobs" from largely US corporations that move "offshore".

Hmmmm....I wonder if GE Canada paid any US taxes!

[Michael Hardner]

A clever avoidance, but begs the larger question. "US jobs" going to GE China or GE Canada is the same to me. The underlyng message is that some Canadians don't fear the loss of "US jobs" at all, but fear the loss of "Canadian jobs" from largely US corporations that move "offshore".

None of that is surprising.

Now - my question ?

[bush_cheney2004]

None of that is surprising.

Now - my question ?

What was your question....I think I have established that GE Canada is part of GE.

[M.Dancer]

What is a "fair share"? How is this determined?

GE and other corporations will continue to legally avoid tax liability, if only as sound business strategy.

What is good enough for Paul Martin is good enough for GE....and he didn't even need US tax law....

[no1ninja]

Why is there a "GE Canada"? What is a "US job"? Why was the lost of such jobs to Canada and Mexico under NAFTA OK, bit not to China?

US call center jobs move offshore, and that includes Canada:

http://news.cnet.com/U.S.-call-center-jobs-moving-to-Canada/2100-1011_3-5325500.html

Because we actually buy your stuff and have consumers that can afford to trade with your country. I think we import more from you than China does, where as China is a net negative in your trade imbalance, this is basic knowledge.

We also do not have an army and posture that is hostile to your nation. ...but suit yourself and build up China at the cost of your middle class. I feel bad for you the same way I would feel bad for my crack head neighbour. You can talk and give him advice, but in the end, he needs to see the problem for himself.

There is no reason for a rich state like California to be bankrupt. It's has one of the richest populations and strongest economies in the world. The problem is the corruption in your tax system, taxes in your country are only for the poor.

EDIT: BTW, China will not buy buicks from you. They will get you to make buick plants down there. Just like they got GE to make engine parts instead of paying for your worker. It will still be profitable to those at the top, so they will do it. It's only their compensation that is of concern to them. They don't see any benefits to wages paid out.

Edited March 27, 2011 by no1ninja

[no1ninja]

Why is there a "GE Canada"? What is a "US job"? Why was the lost of such jobs to Canada and Mexico under NAFTA OK, bit not to China?

US call center jobs move offshore, and that includes Canada:

http://news.cnet.com/U.S.-call-center-jobs-moving-to-Canada/2100-1011_3-5325500.html

Because we actually buy your stuff and have consumers that can afford to trade with your country. I think we import more from you than China does, where as China is a net negative in your trade imbalance, this is basic knowledge.

We also do not have an army and posture that is hostile to your nation. ...but suit yourself and build up China at the cost of your middle class. I feel bad for you the same way I would feel bad for my crack head neighbour. You can talk and give advice, but in the end, he needs to see the problem himself.

There is no reason for a rich state like California to be bankrupt. It's has one of the richest populations and strongest economies in the world. The problem is the corruption in your tax system.

China has surpassed you guys in so many things, and its because your companies are more loyal to the $ than your country. Everyone knows that that American loyalty has a price. China lobbies hard in your country to get its way. Sometimes you catch them sometimes you don't. Everyone lobbies in your country to rape your citizens, Canada is no exception. The sooner your country figures out what it stands for, the better your population will be. Right now you are slowly loosing your rights while the corporations gain theirs.

Edited March 27, 2011 by no1ninja

[no1ninja]

Your short term interests have this unintended effect of making China stronger, while the US gets weaker. If you can't see this... than you have been hooked line and sinker.

[bush_cheney2004]

Because we actually buy your stuff and have consumers that can afford to trade with your country. I think we import more from you than China does, where as China is a net negative in your trade imbalance, this is basic knowledge.

China will soon surpass Canada as the USA's top trading partner. The Chinese buy more Buicks and Boeings too.

We also do not have an army and posture that is hostile to your nation. ...but suit yourself and build up China at the cost of your middle class. I feel bad for you the same way I would feel bad for my crack head neighbour. You can talk and give advice, but in the end, he needs to see the problem himself.

No...you feel bad for your own economic self interest. China is a much larger market than Canada.

There is no reason for a rich state like California to be bankrupt. It's has one of the richest populations and strongest economies in the world. The problem is the corruption in your tax system.

Oh great...another self appointed apostle for America from Canada. Please take a number.....

China has surpassed you guys in so many things, and its because your companies are more loyal to the $ than your country. Everyone knows that that American loyalty has a price. China lobbies hard in your country to get its way. Sometimes you catch them sometimes you don't. Everyone lobbies in your country to rape your citizens, Canada is no exception. The sooner your country figures out what it stands for, the better your population will be. Right now you are slowly loosing your rights while the corporations gain theirs.

Still have more than you...always have. Getting "raped" has never been so good. In the end, you watch and worry about what the Americans will/won't do...the Americans do not worry so much about Canada, with a total national economy smaller than "bankrupt" California.

Edited March 27, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[no1ninja]

China will soon surpass Canada as the USA's top trading partner. The Chinese buy more Buicks and Boeings too.

No...you feel bad for your own economic self interest. China is a much larger market than Canada.

Oh great...another self appointed apostle for America from Canada. Please take a number.....

Still have more than you...always have. Getting "raped" has never been so good. In the end, you watch and worry about what the Americans will/won't do...the Americans do not worry so much about Canada, with a total national economy smaller than "bankrupt" California.

I see that this is an exercise of the ego for you, so there will not be any revelations in your head from my words.

The size of the trading partner doesn't matter. It's the trade imbalance that does (The net profit). Your companies just have realized its not worth hiring your people. They are just not worth the price. You can get the same degree in China for $400 a month. You are basically useless other than your consumption. You have too much rights. Why make anything in the US when you can make it anywhere and not pay taxes and still sell it there. That is why I feel sorry for you. Your own people have sold you out.

Your country is crumbling, and its easy for lobbyists to make it crumble some more.

(Why is our dollar worth so much more? Why is the Yuan? Take your head out your ass. Your leaders have robbed you. You could of bought my house for 60% not too long ago... not anymore.)

Edited March 27, 2011 by no1ninja

[August1991]

Because we actually buy your stuff and have consumers that can afford to trade with your country. I think we import more from you than China does, where as China is a net negative in your trade imbalance, this is basic knowledge.

Who cares what our "trade balance" is?

What's the Earth's "trade balance" with the Sun? The Sun sends us energy and light, and we send it nothing in return. IOW, our trade balance with the sun is in serious deficit.

Heck, how many jobs have we outsourced to the Sun? If the Sun didn't exist, how many people would be employed to create light and heat during the daytime?

China has surpassed you guys in so many things...

What did Deng Xiao Peng say? Who cares whether it is a black or white cat as long as it catches mice.

So who is surpassing who exactly...

----

Number One Ninja, before going live in public, I suggest that you go read a basic economic textbook. And maybe a history book or two also.

China. 5000 years of dire poverty.

Edited March 27, 2011 by August1991

[bush_cheney2004]

I see that this is an exercise of the ego for you, so there will not be any revelations in your head from my words.

I seriously doubt that anybody has such an experience based on "your words".

The size of the trading partner doesn't matter. It's the trade imbalance that does (The net profit). Your companies just have realized its not worth hiring your people. They are just not worth the price. You can get the same degree in China for $400 a month. You are basically useless other than your consumption.

I made a handsome sum transferring US manufacturing technology to a plant in Shanghai. Could have been Mexico...or Canada.

You have too much rights. Why make anything in the US when you can make it anywhere and not pay taxes and still sell it there. That is why I feel sorry for you. Your own people have sold you out.

LOL! You would know...Canada is very experienced at this. So how is that workin' for ya?

Your country is crumbling, and its easy for lobbyists to make it crumble some more.

Let it "crumble".....why do you care? Oh wait....I can guess.

(Why is our dollar worth so much more? Why is the Yuan? Take your head out your ass. Your leaders have robbed you. You could of bought my house for 60% not too long ago... not anymore.)

Why the hell would I buy your house....I own my own.

[no1ninja]

LOL, at comparing the Sun to the economy. I am trying to figure out if you are being sarcastic, I think you must be.

Just in case though, if you keep buying food and goods, without having anyone buy your services that would be called a trade imbalance. Ideally you want to have more money coming in than leaving your wallet. Same with your country. You want to have more money coming in than leaving your country.

... no offence, but word around the cooler is that China owns you guys.

[no1ninja]

I seriously doubt that anybody has such an experience based on "your words".

I made a handsome sum transferring US manufacturing technology to a plant in Shanghai. Could have been Mexico...or Canada.

LOL! You would know...Canada is very experienced at this. So how is that workin' for ya?

Let it "crumble".....why do you care? Oh wait....I can guess.

Why the hell would I buy your house....I own my own.

Someone has to make a buck dismantling the industrial capacity of your country, might as well be you.

I obviously care more about your country than you. I have American friends and feel the pain of the many as oppose the joy of the few.

(BushChaney, nationalities aside: Are you for real, you don't want someone who made 5.1 Billion in your economy to pay any taxes, while your country is in a debt crisis? Seriously? You think this is not an issue?)

EDIT: BTW, what is wrong with you? Did you have a Canadian girlfriend that dumped you or something? Why are you so confrontational to anyone who has a view on your country? I do care. I care a great deal. I consider the US our ally, that is not to say I always agree with your politics. Even Americans do not agree on all the issues amongst themselves.

Edited March 27, 2011 by no1ninja

[bush_cheney2004]

I obviously care more about your country than you. I have american friends and feel the pain of the many as oppose the joy of the few.

Krikey! Another American wannabe....I think you are more deserving of American pity...be they rich or poor....sheesh.

[August1991]

Ideally you want to have more money coming in than leaving your wallet. Same with your country. You want to have more money coming in than leaving your country.

Number One Ninja, go read Adam Smith. He argued that trade is more important than collecting money/gold (mere paper or rock, after all).

But look, you seem to have figured this all out, Ninja. You're smarter than Adam Smith, Barack Obama or America's founding fathers.

China is the model to follow! Mao Zedong, c'mon on down!