Shady Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 Non sequitur. I agree. But it's still true. Quote
Keepitsimple Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) Are you going to lend them your crystal ball? Because nobody will ever know if a coalition is even possible until after the election. True....but then it's fair game - and very appropriate, for the Conservatives to warn people about a coalition of the Libs, NDP and Bloc. If Iggy or anyone thinks it's unfair, they should spell out what they MIGHT do. Canadians would be comforted if Ignatieff said he would never consider a coalition that had to be supported by the Bloc...... but if the Liberals and NDP had more collective seats than the Conservatives, that MIGHT be considered. I think it's fair to expect that. If he doesn't spell it out, then they are fair game as a coalition....because they've already tried it once. Edited March 25, 2011 by Keepitsimple Quote Back to Basics
August1991 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 it's really quite sad. Is that ALL they have?Throughout the 1990s/2000s, the federal Liberals used "secret agenda" to defeat Reform/Conservatives and win majorities.The Conservatives will try every trick in the book to stay in power. And by mentioning "coalition" a million times, they are hoping that the average Canadian brain will succumb and believe this foolishness, a sort of brain washing if you will. This "trick' is really quite childish and i hope it backfires on them.Did the "secret agenda" meme backfire on the Liberals?As I mentioned in another post, the present generation of Canadian voters is accustomed to a system where the party who wins the most seats forms government.Capricorn, that's really not the issue here. If a potential Liberal voter wanted Jack Layton in cabinet, she/he would vote NPD.---- Some people hate Harper. They add together Liberal/NDP vote totals and assume that a new "Liberal/NDP Party" would get the same results. These hate-Harper people are wrong. They fail to understand why the NDP and the Liberals are two separate parties. And I'll leave aside the question of Bloc support for such a coalition. ---- How many times can a Tory politician say "coalition" in one sentence? I'd say that a better question is to ask how many times Ignatieff uses the word in public during the campaign. I note that Layton is not shy to use the word. Quote
buttercup Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 How many times can any Tory politician say the word "Coalition" in one statement??? They like to say it...Let's count the times!!!! John Baird in one answer during QP right now... Twice!! So the Conservatives will acclimatize the Canadian public to the idea of a coalition in the next few weeks. Great stuff! It helps the Liberals and the NDP to bring up the topic of coalition and have it sit for a while. The CPC should have mentioned coalitions in the last week of the campaign only. That way there would not be enough time for canadians to get used to it. Please, CPC, bring it up and bring it on!! LOL! Quote
Shakeyhands Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 August, per the "secret agenda", funny how after all this time and seeing him in action, the electorate still hasn't seen fit to give the CPC a majority, and that even with the weakest leader in the history of their main rival. There just might be something to not trusting the man. He hasn't exactly shown how trust worthy he is. Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Shady Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) August, per the "secret agenda", funny how after all this time and seeing him in action, the electorate still hasn't seen fit to give the CPC a majority, and that even with the weakest leader in the history of their main rival. There just might be something to not trusting the man. He hasn't exactly shown how trust worthy he is. Funny how I don't remember any pseudo and selective outrage over the Liberal "secret agenda" meme. How many times was that used every election in the past? Like I've already said. Cry me a river. It's too bad that your own medicine tastes so bad. Deal with it. Edited March 25, 2011 by Shady Quote
g_bambino Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) True....but then it's fair game - and very appropriate, for the Conservatives to warn people about a coalition of the Libs, NDP and Bloc. That would seem to me to be a waste of time. Why warn against something nobody knows will happen or, if it does, how it will happen. The potential permeations are many - Bloc, Liberal, NDP coalition; Liberal, NDP coalition; Liberal, NDP coalition dependent on the support of independents; etc., etc. - so, which one do the Conservatives campaign against? Then again, the Conservatives could use to their favour Canadians' general ignorance of their own system of governance and mount an illogical (and hypocritical), but convincing to the uninitated, fear campaign against coalitions in general and paint the Liberals as undemocratic opportunists for even considering the idea. Wait... Haven't they already started that? [+] Edited March 25, 2011 by g_bambino Quote
capricorn Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 If Iggy or anyone thinks it's unfair, they should spell out what they MIGHT do. Canadians would be comforted if Ignatieff said he would never consider a coalition that had to be supported by the Bloc...... Ignatieff, meet hard place. He can't make such a statement because he would be alienating swing voters in the Bloc camp that might vote Liberal. Not to mention, Quebec's sensibilities would be insulted that the Bloc is ostracized by being left out of the deal. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
wyly Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 That sounds an awful lot like your guy yesterday, you know, when the questions that were asked weren't to his liking... Maybe Harper needs anger managment classes. or Rob Anders Calgary West MP...watch him become invisible from now until after the election, the guy is on permanent muzzle by the PMO.... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
August1991 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 August, per the "secret agenda", funny how after all this time and seeing him in action, the electorate still hasn't seen fit to give the CPC a majority, and that even with the weakest leader in the history of their main rival. There just might be something to not trusting the man. He hasn't exactly shown how trust worthy he is.Whatever.As Shady notes above, this "coalition" meme is equivalent to Chretien/Martin's "secret agenda" meme. The federal Liberals are now facing the same medicine that they once dished out. How can Ignatieff deny that he will not organize a coalition? ---- He who lives by the sword will die by the sword. Quote
Shakeyhands Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 The federal Liberals are now facing the same medicine that they once dished out. How can Ignatieff deny that he will not organize a coalition? He can't. Neither can Harper if he were to find himself in Opposition in a Minority Gov't. It's the way our system works. The problem with it is that to the uniformed it seems like something dirty. As I said, if thats all the CPC has, go for it.. You have to run what you brung. Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
capricorn Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 Why warn against something nobody knows will happen or, if it does, how it will happen. The potential permeations are many - Bloc, Liberal, NDP coalition; Liberal, NDP coalition; Liberal, NDP coalition dependent on the support of independents; etc., etc. - so, which one do the Conservatives campaign against? Warnings are at the heart of political attack ads and election campaigns, except on the level of heralding achievements. Then again, the Conservatives could use to their favour Canadians' general ignorance of their own system of governance and mount an illogical (and hypocritical), but convincing to the uninitated, fear campaign against coalitions in general and paint the Liberals as undemocratic opportunists for even considering the idea. You're right that Canadians are unaware of the choices available within the Westminster system. I have no clue how Canadians could be taught these choices other than through the educational system. That said, in my view, the right system of governance is the system that Canadians today feel most comfortable with. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
August1991 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) The problem with it is that to the uniformed it seems like something dirty."Dirty"?Let Ignatieff announce now that he is willing to form a coalition government. Get back to me on 3 May and we can discuss whether Ignatieff was wise to adopt that strategy. Neither can Harper if he were to find himself in Opposition in a Minority Gov't. It's the way our system works.It is one thing to do something after the fact. It is another thing to say you'll do something before the fact.People change their behaviour based on what you do, or what they think you'll do. Edited March 25, 2011 by August1991 Quote
g_bambino Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) That said, in my view, the right system of governance is the system that Canadians today feel most comfortable with. Seems a bit odd to reorganise something around the opinions of people who know next to nothing about what's being reorganised. [sp] Edited March 25, 2011 by g_bambino Quote
ToadBrother Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 True....but then it's fair game - and very appropriate, for the Conservatives to warn people about a coalition of the Libs, NDP and Bloc. If Iggy or anyone thinks it's unfair, they should spell out what they MIGHT do. Canadians would be comforted if Ignatieff said he would never consider a coalition that had to be supported by the Bloc...... but if the Liberals and NDP had more collective seats than the Conservatives, that MIGHT be considered. I think it's fair to expect that. If he doesn't spell it out, then they are fair game as a coalition....because they've already tried it once. We've already seen that the Tories had little problem working with the Bloc to try to topple the government. Why do you hold the Liberals to a different standard? Beyond that, do you think a sensible leader who seems to have a broken crystal ball would make grand declarations on what happens after the next election? Quote
Keepitsimple Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) With the Liberals so far behind in the polls, there's only two reasons why the Libs would force an election that they have absolutely no chance of winning. One - they indeed are hoping to hold the Conservatives to a minority and promptly declare Parliament unworkable and form a coalition or two - it's the only way to get rid of Ignatieff and start over again. Lose and get to fight another day with a renewed party and a new leader. Diehard partisans will say and pray that "anything can happen in an election" but party pragmatists don't think that way. Puzzling to most pundits, those are the only reasons that I can think of. Edited March 25, 2011 by Keepitsimple Quote Back to Basics
Jack Weber Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) Tom Lukiwski to Rosemary Barton on the Ceeb right now... "The Opposition Coaliton"... Three times!!! Edited March 25, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Shakeyhands Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 Tom Likewski to Rosemary Barton on the Ceeb right now... "The Opposition Coaliton"... Three times!!! Are you sure Tom didn't say "The B type Opposition, full of homosexual faggots with dirt under their fingernails that transmit diseases" ???? Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Shakeyhands Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 It would seem that the MEP system/program is working wonderfully. Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Jack Weber Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) Are you sure Tom didn't say "The B type Opposition, full of homosexual faggots with dirt under their fingernails that transmit diseases" ???? No..And surprisingly he did'nt intimate that there were Socialist/Marxists involved,as well!!! I felt it was rich of Tom to say he felt that this campaign might get "down in the mud" and become a "smear campaign" because the Conservatives would rather talk about policy... Seeing as his blessed Tories have been running attack ads against Mr. Igantieff for almost a year... And they have,in fact,been found in Contempt of Parliament...The first government in the history of this country that this has happened to and is the reason it's about to fall!!! Edited March 25, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Jack Weber Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Posted March 25, 2011 Stephen Harper at his press conference in front of the House of Commons minutes after the government fell... Once in French... Once in English... A double whammy!!! And the gutless,contemptuous coward would take no questions... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
WWWTT Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 Are you sure Tom didn't say "The B type Opposition, full of homosexual faggots with dirt under their fingernails that transmit diseases" ???? This is a terrible thing to say man.I don't know if youre trying to put words into someones mouth or if this is a reflection of you or what. I don't even feel comfortable using it to point out your error here WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
Molly Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 Yeah. "Coward! You coward!" was the chorus ouround this tv. And Duceppe.... Dang, I like Duceppe. Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
Molly Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) This is a terrible thing to say man.I don't know if youre trying to put words into someones mouth or if this is a reflection of you or what. I don't even feel comfortable using it to point out your error here WWWTT Do you not realize that those are his words? http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1f3_1207259932 "Lukiwski, then an official in the Progressive Conservative campaign, speaks directly to the camera at one point in response to a question from the camera operator. "There's A's and there's B's. The A's are guys like me, the B's are homosexual faggots with dirt under their fingernails that transmit diseases," he said. Edited March 25, 2011 by Molly Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
Jack Weber Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Posted March 25, 2011 This is a terrible thing to say man.I don't know if youre trying to put words into someones mouth or if this is a reflection of you or what. I don't even feel comfortable using it to point out your error here WWWTT You might want to take it back to Bedwetter.ca (Rabble.ca) if you're easily offended... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
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