Post To The Left Posted March 23, 2011 Report Posted March 23, 2011 Syria has largely been immune to the uprisings around the Middle East largely because residents of that country still remember the last time they tried to throw off the reins of the Ba'ath Party-controlled government of Syria in February 1982 during the Hama Massacre. During that anti-government uprising thousands of civilians were killed. Estimates of the dead are as high as 40,000 with AI saying about 25,000 were killed. Yet again trouble brews for the harsh government of Syria. As of March 23, protests are increasing throughout Syria and so are the brutal crackdowns. Yet this violence against its own citizens seems to sparking more protests. If the Syrian government falls it will have a huge affect on regional governments. A Muslim brotherhood government could even emerge which might not respect the Detente that Syria holds with Israel. So will the Syrian government fall? As they did with Egypt will Israel try and support the brutal dictatorship of Syria in hopes of keeping the "devil you know" in power? Quote
Jonsa Posted March 23, 2011 Report Posted March 23, 2011 What could Israel possibly do to influence things in Syria - wave a magic wand, lend Assad a nuke or two? the winds of change are blowing and its the people that are doing it. Syria will change, Assad and his cronies won't be able to get away with another Hama. Quote
jbg Posted March 23, 2011 Report Posted March 23, 2011 So will the Syrian government fall? As they did with Egypt will Israel try and support the brutal dictatorship of Syria in hopes of keeping the "devil you know" in power? What could Israel possibly do to influence things in Syria - wave a magic wand, lend Assad a nuke or two? Israel has a loyal Arab community and thus a wealth of intelligence that the U.S. and C.S.I.S. don't have. Don't you think a well-aimed bullet or drone can alter the course of top-down movements? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Post To The Left Posted March 24, 2011 Author Report Posted March 24, 2011 What could Israel possibly do to influence things in Syria - wave a magic wand, lend Assad a nuke or two? If by wave a magic wand, you mean invade a country (like they did in Lebanon) to back up elements of surrounding country then yes. Quote
GostHacked Posted March 24, 2011 Report Posted March 24, 2011 Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Bahrain, and eventually Iran. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted March 24, 2011 Report Posted March 24, 2011 If by wave a magic wand, you mean invade a country (like they did in Lebanon) to back up elements of surrounding country then yes. They don't have to invade anything. They can do much smaller things, from convincing people to bribing people to assassinating people - people you and I have never heard of, but who are lynchpins of change. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted March 24, 2011 Report Posted March 24, 2011 A lot is happening now. I think that it's disheartening how little we hear about Obama's support of repression in Bahrain. Let's not forget Morocco where this all started (remember ?) and whose king has announced reforms: Reuters Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Jack Weber Posted March 24, 2011 Report Posted March 24, 2011 I think this Syrian issue is the most interesting of all... Bashar Al-Assad runs one of the last true Ba'Athist regimes left in the region.Most people would probably think that it's a purely Muslim country,but it's not.There is a fairly large Christian minority that populates that country,along with the Druze and Alewite tribes.Being Ba'Athist,the country is essentially secular... The problem here is that,like other countries in the region,it is a top down/authoritarian regime that is extremely repressive... The fact that the demonstrations seem to be demanding reforms to the Assad regime instead of a complete removal indicates the fear that permeates Syrian society of its government.But in this case,because the regime is so pervasive,it might be the best way to go about things.... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Post To The Left Posted March 24, 2011 Author Report Posted March 24, 2011 The problem here is that,like other countries in the region,it is a top down/authoritarian regime that is extremely repressive... Yes but top down/authoritarian governments fall easily because of the small amount of people who support the regime. All it takes is if military or police refuses to obey orders and the entire ruling structure is wiped away. Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 Yes but top down/authoritarian governments fall easily because of the small amount of people who support the regime. All it takes is if military or police refuses to obey orders and the entire ruling structure is wiped away. True...This is what is happening in Yemen right now... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
jbg Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 A lot is happening now. I think that it's disheartening how little we hear about Obama's support of repression in Bahrain.Bahrain is a special case. Based on the makeup of their population they could easily become Iran II. And the location couldn't be worse. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Michael Hardner Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 Bahrain is a special case. Based on the makeup of their population they could easily become Iran II. And the location couldn't be worse. I see - they don't pass the test so no democracy. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Oleg Bach Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 I see - they don't pass the test so no democracy. When some public figure parrots the word democracy - then you know that they are a liar...there is no democracy - just special interest elitist groups who now think they own us and all the world. I can't stand democracy...it never existed and never will..time to be honest and make the best of of tacit dictatorship that now are in every country. Quote
GostHacked Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 When some public figure parrots the word democracy - then you know that they are a liar...there is no democracy - just special interest elitist groups who now think they own us and all the world. I can't stand democracy...it never existed and never will..time to be honest and make the best of of tacit dictatorship that now are in every country. I agree with you for the most part in this statement. We just need governments that work for the people again, not this bastardization of so called democracy which seems to be an utter joke now. Time to make government scared of the people again. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 When some public figure parrots the word democracy - then you know that they are a liar...there is no democracy - just special interest elitist groups who now think they own us and all the world. I can't stand democracy...it never existed and never will..time to be honest and make the best of of tacit dictatorship that now are in every country. Perfection doesn't exist and never has, but it IS a goal. When people they say there is no democracy, they usually mean that it's not perfect. I can't imagine that people would think that Canada, Switzerland, France or the US today are in the exact same democratic boat as each other - or for that matter in the same demBoat as 1942 Germany, 2002 Iraq, 1974 Chile. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 I agree with you for the most part in this statement. We just need governments that work for the people again, not this bastardization of so called democracy which seems to be an utter joke now. Time to make government scared of the people again. You have stated this repeatedly here, but again you're only happy with perfection. We can show you over and over again that things change, and in fact that they improve in many ways but as long as one person has better treatment than another you will say democracy is a joke. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
GostHacked Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 You have stated this repeatedly here, but again you're only happy with perfection. We can show you over and over again that things change, and in fact that they improve in many ways but as long as one person has better treatment than another you will say democracy is a joke. It is a joke. I know perfection will never come about, but damn there has got to be something better than the corruption we face across the board. The corruption in corporations and governments where the revolving door recycles CEOs and politicians and interchanges them. The democracy where 50.1% of the population controls the other 49.9% is a joke in of itself. I am leaning more towards what the US has where a republic needs a 2/3'ds vote. That way you know that a good majority of the population support any given item. And now we see more and more where the control of sovereign nations are giving all that up and asking the UN for permission to do anything. This last fiasco with Libya is more than proof of that. NATO is taking control of the operations now, and it is a war, no doubt. However it's illegal even by NATO and UN standards. Libya is in a civil war like many countries in the middle east and north africa. However, NATO is going in to protect civilians? Not buying it for a moment. It is also important to not that Libya has not attacked any NATO country. So there is really no need for NATO to be involved in this mess. And it will be a mess. To me this looks more and more like Iraq 2.0. We also face it now where our governments no longer have the interests of the common man in mind. Big corporation controls the big government. Follow the money. And yes things change, but are they getting better? Take a look around the world with current austerity measures taken place in countries that have never had a problem before. That movie called 'Inside Job' narrated by Matt Damon is really an eye opener for those who think we are out of a financial crisis. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 And yes things change, but are they getting better? Take a look around the world with current austerity measures taken place in countries that have never had a problem before. That movie called 'Inside Job' narrated by Matt Damon is really an eye opener for those who think we are out of a financial crisis. It's hard to say that a world where people can get their political information from entertainment is worse than one where they have to secretly pass pamphlets to each other on the street. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Jack Weber Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 The situation is getting quite violent in Syria... It seems that,unlike Egypt,Bashar Al-Assad is quite prepared to gun down his own people to maintain power!!! Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Oleg Bach Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 I agree with you for the most part in this statement. We just need governments that work for the people again, not this bastardization of so called democracy which seems to be an utter joke now. Time to make government scared of the people again. There is no one left to scare the government- we messed with the gene pool and all we have thirty years later are human dwarfs in character. People will do anything for a buck - it is such a materially stressed out society that mothers eat their young...and husbands and wives abandon mate and family for possible finacial gain and hedonistic pleasure. The internet is a curse on the world....it creates a collective that eventually leads to mob rule...I guess mob rule is true democracy. Quote
jbg Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 I see - they don't pass the test so no democracy. When most of us say we want democracy we're not saying "one person, one vote, one time". We're not talking about mobocracy either. We mean a system where people take their differences "indoors" and resolve them through civilized channels.A "battle of imams" telling people how to vote, and heavily armed "elections" is not democracy. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Michael Hardner Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 When most of us say we want democracy we're not saying "one person, one vote, one time". We're not talking about mobocracy either. We mean a system where people take their differences "indoors" and resolve them through civilized channels. Ok, so... what about Bahrain then ? They're not moving towards your end goal. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Bob Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 Syria has largely been immune to the uprisings around the Middle East largely because residents of that country still remember the last time they tried to throw off the reins of the Ba'ath Party-controlled government of Syria in February 1982 during the Hama Massacre. During that anti-government uprising thousands of civilians were killed. Estimates of the dead are as high as 40,000 with AI saying about 25,000 were killed. Yet again trouble brews for the harsh government of Syria. As of March 23, protests are increasing throughout Syria and so are the brutal crackdowns. Yet this violence against its own citizens seems to sparking more protests. If the Syrian government falls it will have a huge affect on regional governments. A Muslim brotherhood government could even emerge which might not respect the Detente that Syria holds with Israel. So will the Syrian government fall? As they did with Egypt will Israel try and support the brutal dictatorship of Syria in hopes of keeping the "devil you know" in power? What "detente" are you talking about, exactly? Politically, Syria always attacks Israel and the Jewish people. This doesn't matter too much, as honest people realize the Syrian government has no legitimacy. More importantly, though, Syria provides weapons to terrorists in Lebanon (Hezbollah), Gaza (Hamas and many others), and the West Bank which are used to murder and wound Jews. Just because there's no conventional war going on between us and them is different than suggesting that there is some "detente" going on. Quote My blog - bobinisrael.blogspot.com - I am writing on it, again!
Bob Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 Perfection doesn't exist and never has, but it IS a goal. When people they say there is no democracy, they usually mean that it's not perfect. I can't imagine that people would think that Canada, Switzerland, France or the US today are in the exact same democratic boat as each other - or for that matter in the same demBoat as 1942 Germany, 2002 Iraq, 1974 Chile. I understand what you're saying. I think that the biggest obstacle to genuine democracy in the Middle East (aside from Israel, of course) is cultural. People need to believe in it. It's empty if it's just words on an official document. Overlapping and connected to what I just wrote, is whats jbg just already indicated - that people resolve differences peacefully and respect differences of opinion (within reason). They need to have a tolerance and acceptance of pluralism and equality. Big "D" Democracy depends as much on what is in the hearts and minds of the people as what is written in official documents setting the guidelines of the political architecture. I think the "hearts and minds" part of the democracy equation is seriously lacking among Arabs/Muslims, but hey, maybe I'm wrong. I just don't see them, broadly speaking, as tolerant and accepting of pluralism. Nor do I see them as tolerant or accepting of equality based on fundamentals we tend to take for granted in Canada: race, gender, age, religion/lack of religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc. We'll find out sooner or later, I suppose. Quote My blog - bobinisrael.blogspot.com - I am writing on it, again!
Post To The Left Posted March 28, 2011 Author Report Posted March 28, 2011 Clinton promises no military strikes in Syria ... for now. Quote
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