Skin colour matters in access to good jobs: study

[Molly]

Not true at all.

Have you Native Indian blood? If not then fine, add in you cant be Miss Canada or Miss Universe, dont have a medical degree..?.....you can t be a Doctor either....

Wanna hear a whopper of an anomaly? Aboriginals aren't visible minority in those stats.

[Saipan]

Have you Native Indian blood?

No, I'm wrong race in Canada.

[guyser]

No, I'm wrong race in Canada.

OH then it was merely a dumb thing to say.Ok I understand.

[Saipan]

Also, merits aren't used in hiring, to my knowledge - qualifications are.

If someone meets the qualifications, then they can be hired.

Qualifications are adjusted to colour of skin and sex.

http://firstin.wordpress.com/2011/03/12/dayton-lowers-police-scores-to-boost-minority-hiring/

Note: Wikipedia, “IQ,” now withdrawn

http://elliotlakenews.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/wanted-less-qualified-recruits/

And racist practices in Canada to be more politically corect.

http://www.ajic.mb.ca/volumelll/chapter11.html

[Saipan]

Ok I understand.

Prove it by stating the difference between Europe and Canada.

And who can become sustenance hunter in Canada.

[Michael Hardner]

Qualifications are adjusted to colour of skin and sex.

http://firstin.wordpress.com/2011/03/12/dayton-lowers-police-scores-to-boost-minority-hiring/

Note: Wikipedia, “IQ,” now withdrawn

Acknowledged. Point accepted.

Even the NAACP thinks this is a bad idea:

“The NAACP does not support individuals failing a test and then having the opportunity to be gainfully employed,” agreed Dayton NAACP President Derrick Foward.

http://elliotlakenews.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/wanted-less-qualified-recruits/

And racist practices in Canada to be more politically corect.

http://www.ajic.mb.ca/volumelll/chapter11.html

I don't see anything there that talks about lowering standards. Do you have an excerpt ?

[kimmy]

(...)

I found the following, which seems to indicate colour isn't so much an issue as it seems

(...)

Good work, Michael!

This seems like almost a re-run of a thread that me and Da Shwa had a while back about "Employment Equity/Affirmative Action" where the numbers, at first glance, seemed to support the impression that there was a colour barrier, but after a little digging the picture became a lot cloudier and the existence of a "colour barrier" became pretty dubious.

Someone crunches a few numbers and observes: Gee, visible minorities aren't doing as well as whitey... and invites the assumption that there's a "colour barrier", that it's racism that's holding visible minorities back.

There seem to be some people that *want* to believe it's true.

But then you look at the numbers and observe that Canadian-born visible minorities and those who have been here for long periods of time are doing just as well (or even better!) than whitey.

Which refutes the premise that it's "colour" that's holding people back and invites us to look at other reasons why recently-arrived visible minorities aren't doing as well as visible minorities who have been here longer. Some possibilities include:

-language barrier

-lack of employable skills

-difficulty in evaluating or verifying foreign credentials and work experience

-culture shock

But none of that is as juicy a headline as "colour barrier".

-k

[Michael Hardner]

Actually, it really seems like these people just went to the web page I went to and plugged numbers in.

That's the data they're referring to in their bibliography. If so, then it's a bad study. They need to get better data, and raw data and do a full statistical study.

But - did no one notice that the data could be used to disparage races too ? Very odd that Stats Can published this...

[scouterjim]

Could happen, it was close in the hey day of employment equity which was supposed to be voluntary, but in fact was pretty rigorously imposed and practiced in many areas. I can attest to what was done in the name of EE in order to hire from target groups.

If anyone has gone to gov't offices in Toronto or spoken to anyone on the phone, you are hard pressed to find a caucasian employee, visible minorities are no longer under represented, in Toronto at least.

Vancouver, either.

[bush_cheney2004]

Even the NAACP thinks this is a bad idea:

Damn! I never knew that Canada had an NAACP...live and learn.

[scouterjim]

I guess you didn't read the thread.

I read it, and I still recall that under the Chretien government, my cousin from Scotland (an electrical engineer) was turned down in his request to come to Canada because the country was committed to taking "more immigrants from the third world". I guess we needed more berry pickers and less electrical engineers. He went to Australia because they took him right away. I guess they had enough berry pickers.

[Saipan]

And it's also in hiring firefighters and other positions.

No discriminations in hunting, fishing or other land use in Europe as it is here.

In Canada discimination exist even in firearms use.

[Saipan]

He went to Australia because they took him right away. I guess they had enough berry pickers.

Yes, in Australia they use common sense. They don't take boatload of Tamils. They prefer Canadians take them. Australia prefer qualification. People who don't tend to rely on government.

[Michael Hardner]

I read it, and I still recall that under the Chretien government, my cousin from Scotland (an electrical engineer) was turned down in his request to come to Canada because the country was committed to taking "more immigrants from the third world". I guess we needed more berry pickers and less electrical engineers. He went to Australia because they took him right away. I guess they had enough berry pickers.

Where did that quote come from - your cousin ? Employment & Immigration Canada ? Your cousin ?

Sounds like a fishy story to me, sorry.

[Saipan]

Now more than 82% of our immigrants come from third world countries.

http://ccrweb.ca/en/using-charter-challenge-discrimination-against-immigrants-and-refugees-0

[guyser]

Prove it by stating the difference between Europe and Canada.

You want me to prove you say dumb things? Really?

Ok, go here and read posts from some guy named " Saipan' , http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/ There will be no doubt after.

And who can become sustenance hunter in Canada.

Gee...sustenance hunter...well everyone can apply . (See above as another explaination )

Now whether you qualify or not is another issue.

And lastly, this has what to do with skin colour and access to jobs? (see above and mark this post down as another example-how embarassing)

Edited March 22, 2011 by guyser

[scouterjim]

Where did that quote come from - your cousin ? Employment & Immigration Canada ? Your cousin ?

Sounds like a fishy story to me, sorry.

It came from Immigration (who told me on the phone that "We are committed to taking immigrants from the third world before Europe", and my cousin who was told the same thing.

[Saipan]

Gee...sustenance hunter...well everyone can apply.

According to half baked law, yes. But look at the qualification. "proof that one is gaining most of his living from hunting and fishing" Simple enough, right.

Therefore anyone but indians have to prove he was poaching (illegally) for a whole year. Perfect racism.

[guyser]

According to half baked law, yes.

Yup

But look at the qualification. "proof that one is gaining most of his living from hunting and fishing" Simple enough, right.

Nope. Try again

Therefore anyone but indians have to prove he was poaching (illegally) for a whole year. Perfect racism.

Nope try again.

Racism? Woo boy, thats a doozy. ,but nope, not a shred of racism.

You must not be able to afford food, or not be able to get at any, so mainly those who are destitute, or live so far out in the woods it is the only way to eat can get a licence.

So if you have a licence, you show it, the same way you do with many other things.

A very easy requirement and not one that someone should whine about.

Edited March 22, 2011 by guyser

[Shwa]

This is a high-quality discussion... numbers numbers numbers.

Ok, the strangest thing about the report is that it really only repeats stats that are available already from the Stats Canada site below, as I found:

Stats Can

Click 4 - Visible Minority Groups, and the Data Table.

I found the following, which seems to indicate colour isn't so much an issue as it seems:

Not a visible minority

3rd generation or more

25 to 44 years

University certificate or degree

NOT a minority

Median employment income $ 46,184 46,846

Average employment income $ 55,578 56,071

Visble Minority

Median employment income $ 47,332 46,403

Average employment income $ 56,626 54,991

I am not quite sure how your numbers above reflect the gist of the report. You are being quite specific in a limited category while the report is looking at things overall.

table 5 Average Employment Income Canada, 2005

Men

Racialized - 35,329

Non-racialized - 45,327

Women

Racialized - 25,204

Non-racialized - 28,584

Total

Racialized - 30,385

Non-racialized37,332

Did you crunch all the numbers in those tables to arrive at your averages or just rest your argument on one selected category? And, if so, what was your rationale for that one category?

For what it's worth, I found that a selective look at the numbers shows the exact opposite with a little comparison:

1st generation non-visible minority male 15-24 years old, with low education working some of the time made $9,178.

3rd generation, visible minority male 45-64 years old, highly educated, working full time $120,706.

So skin colour certainly isn't a factor here.

[Saipan]

Nope. Try again

I should try "again" to change the law?

Racism? Woo boy, thats a doozy.

No, it's just plain racism. Nonexistent in Europe.

You must not be able to afford food

WHO does? Indian Chiefs that get more money than Premiers?

Veeery funny.

So if you have a licence, you show it, the same way you do with many other things.

How do you get the "licence"? Remember the law says anyone of any race who proves most of his income is from hunting and fishing.

Edited March 22, 2011 by Saipan

[Shwa]

I should try "again" to change the law?

No, it's just plain racism. Nonexistent in Europe.

WHO does? Indian Chiefs that get more money than Premiers?

Veeery funny.

How do you get the "licence"? Remember the law says anyone of any race who proves most of his income is from hunting and fishing.

The Europeans murdered 6 million Jews, among other racist atrocities. Saying it's "non-existent" is too dumb to be funny.

[bloodyminded]

No, it's just plain racism. Nonexistent in Europe.

Racism is non-existent in Europe?

This may well be the very first time I've ever heard anyone make this claim.

The world refreshes forever anew!

[guyser]

I should try "again" to change the law?

No you shouldnt.

And thats because you have no idea what laws are out there.

You are a one trick pony with only two legs.. I suspect the hind two legs because you keep scraping your chin on subjects you have no idea about.

That said, I am not a hunter, never even shot a gun bigger than a 22....yet for some reason I know more about the regs and rules than you do !

The word for it is pathetic.

No, it's just plain racism. Nonexistent in Europe.

No where on the app does it ask for your skin colour or ethnicity so cut the bullshit out.

Non-existent in Europe? Someone needs to go back to grade 5 and repeat.

WHO does? Indian Chiefs that get more money than Premiers?

Veeery funny.

Totally and completely irrelevant. Not funny at all.

What is funny is your woeful lack of knowledge that you post time and time again about, ad nauseum , clogging up threads, any threads with either gun shit or Liberal stole money shit. If we had a food forum we trust your assinine habits would infect that too.

Poster- Like T bones or Strip loins?

Saipan-No,liberal stole money

How do you get the "licence"? Remember the law says anyone of any race who proves most of his income is from hunting and fishing.

See, right there is why your an annoying troll.

Above you said its racism and referenced Indians as the only ones who get sustenance licene, yet right here you say "anyone of any race"

So do us all a favour, stick to topics you have at least some working knowledge of.So far, there havent been any but anyday now there might be.

Edited March 22, 2011 by guyser

[Saipan]

The Europeans murdered 6 million Jews

Yes, Chief Ahenakew's friends. Just like Ojibway exterminated Lakotas. Not a point of racism.

Saying it's "non-existent" is too dumb to be funny.

Really? Which race or nationality in Europe have preferential rights to hunt and fish and exempt from taxes.

Which nationality/race has free post-secondary education, while other race/nationality have to pay for it?

And more.