What do you think of Ad about Ignatieff's family?

[Scotty]

Puh-lease, for all the times I've been tagged, it's clearly not just Liberals here who have a problem.

Have you considered the possibility that if you're being 'tagged' often, it's not the Liberals or the Tories at fault?

[betsy]

Why a desperate response? Why bring up his family now?

All that long information that Nicky posted about his family background.....nothing wrong with that. That should have been done when he first came to office as leader. Heck, I"d even settle for that being done during his summer bus tour, as a way of re-introducing himself to cool Liberal supporters....not on the eve of a looming election, with his dismal polls' figure, after relentless Conservative ads! So, yeah. Desperate.

[Topaz]

Have any of you ever actually listened to him? I wasn't sure about him at first because his connection to the US, but he was only there for five years and then he came back to the University of Toronto then to politics. He makes more sense when he talks and I think he should put himself out there more to be heard.

[gordiecanuk]

Don't care. Don't care about the Tory ads either. Ads don't do much for me either way. To get my vote a party has to demonstrate it has a higher likelihood of providing reasonably competent, reasonably honest government than its competitors. Attractive, innovative, visionary, or at least clever policies I can support would be advantageous but are not necessary - or usually present.

Love the honesty and intgrety of Harper's Tories, man....can't believe Stevie had that guy Carson as his top advisor. Canada's prime minister hiring a guy to advise him who was disbarred for forging cheques and stealing $23,900 from a corporation and two individual clients he represented....great resume. Who's he gonna hire next? Cifford Olson?

What kind of judgement is that???? All the broken promises and patronage and scandals on top of it...problem is, where does a boot licking conservative turn??? Maybe the Christian Heritage party if they're running in your riding.

I feel your pain.

[Saipan]

Love the honesty and intgrety of Harper's Tories, man....can't believe Stevie had that guy Carson as his top advisor.

When was that?

You forgot to blame him for (another lawyer) NDPs Svend Robinson's "pocketing" jewelery, and Chretien's son drug dealing

Who knows maybe Harper had also fingers in Sponsorgate money stealing scheme.

[gordiecanuk]

When was that?

You forgot to blame him for (another lawyer) NDPs Svend Robinson's "pocketing" jewelery, and Chretien's son drug dealing

Who knows maybe Harper had also fingers in Sponsorgate money stealing scheme.

Harper is right up there with all those guys, gotta be a punch in the gut to people who believed him about being open and honest and all that other BS.

[Saipan]

Harper is right up there with all those guys, gotta be a punch in the gut to people who believed him about being open and honest and all that other BS.

Speaking of BS.

You seen him stealing jewelery and money?

Which judge made the ruling?

[gordiecanuk]

Speaking of BS.

You seen him stealing jewelery and money?

Which judge made the ruling?

Sorry man, you lost me. So you want to discuss Robinson and Chretien's son instead of Harper? Can't say I blame you but this is a politics foruum.

[Saipan]

Sorry man, you lost me. So you want to discuss Robinson and Chretien's son instead of Harper? Can't say I blame you but this is a politics foruum.

So why do think it's about Harper?

Yes, you are lost.

[kimmy]

Sorry man, you lost me. So you want to discuss Robinson and Chretien's son instead of Harper? Can't say I blame you but this is a politics foruum.

...says the guy trying to make the topic about Harper instead of Ignatieff.

On what planet is a guy who wrote bad cheques 30 years ago remotely like Clifford Olson? Are you drinking William Ashley's kool-aid?

-k

[nicky10013]

Of course not. There's just a question of how much money they took with them when they fled. The claim that they were able to access substantial assets after they left Russia is cited to Ignatieff's own book, although I don't have a copy of that handy to verify it.

Regardless, presenting the graphic on its own makes the impression that Ignatieff's heritage was under attack, which I think you know is misleading.

-k

Of course it isn't misleading. Of course it's an attack on his heritage. If it wasn't there wouldn't be a Russian flag behind his picture - it's also a blatant attack on his family. His father came here, went to public school, worked his ass into a Rhodes Scholarship and became one of the best diplomats Canada has ever produced. To further that, the notion that considering his years in public service to Canada that he was anything other than completely loyal to Canada, (which again this piece attempts to call into doubt) just to get back at his son is not only horribly disgusting but reeks of desperation.

So why is it that the CPC feels they have to attack that? Shouldn't our government be making examples of hard work like this?

You know, if they were just attacking Ignatieff's policy that would be one thing, but this is why everyone hates politics these days.

I personally think this blog entry sums it up nicely.

http://cowboysforsocialresponsibility.blogspot.com/2011/03/is-baghdad-bob-running-harper-tory-war.html

Is Baghdad Bob running the Harper Tory war room?

UPDATE: Susan Delacourt posts the Tory hit piece in its entirety.

So the Tory war room has launched another preemptive strike on Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff.

This one is, well, goofy.

Imagine the Tory narrative if someone like Ignatieff was Tory leader:

IMAGE: Fade from image of Stalin to the gulags

VOICE OVER: Our leader's family fled a totalitarian Soviet regime that murdered millions of its own citizens.

IMAGE: Generic Russian church

VOICE OVER: Our leader's family helped the victims of Communist abuse.

IMAGE: Canadian Red Ensign

VOICE OVER: Our leader's family chose Canada.

IMAGE: L.B. Pearson's Nobel Peace Prize

VOICE OVER: Our leader's family helped Canada win the Nobel Peace Prize.

IMAGE: Stephen Harper

VOICE OVER: Our leader.

TEXT: BUILDING ON CANADA'S BEST TRADITIONS

Unfortunately for the aspiring Baghdad Bob's in the Tory war room, their leader doesn't have that kind of narrative.

He's just an ex-Liberal from Leaside.

That's why they feel obliged to obfuscate.

Edited March 20, 2011 by nicky10013

[Saipan]

Of course it isn't misleading. Of course it's an attack on his heritage.

Ignatieff is the one bringing it up.

[kimmy]

You know, if they were just attacking Ignatieff's policy that would be one thing, but this is why everyone hates politics these days.

If people are only supposed to talk about policies, then Ignatieff shouldn't have been trying to portray himself as the child of hardscrabble immigrants in the first place. If he wants to play that card, then checking his story is fair game.

-k

[Saipan]

Of course it isn't misleading. Of course it's an attack on his heritage.

Very common with Lefties to attack anything American, even remotely connected.

UNLESS it's Michael Ignatieff or Svend Robinson or Numb Chimpski.

When Stephen Harper visit USA for two days he's "Bushes lapdog" and wants "to bring American values". Ignatieff can stay for decades and proclaim himself American and it's still OK.

Insanity is mild word.

Edited March 20, 2011 by Saipan

[punked]

Of course it isn't misleading. Of course it's an attack on his heritage. If it wasn't there wouldn't be a Russian flag behind his picture - it's also a blatant attack on his family. His father came here, went to public school, worked his ass into a Rhodes Scholarship and became one of the best diplomats Canada has ever produced. To further that, the notion that considering his years in public service to Canada that he was anything other than completely loyal to Canada, (which again this piece attempts to call into doubt) just to get back at his son is not only horribly disgusting but reeks of desperation.

So why is it that the CPC feels they have to attack that? Shouldn't our government be making examples of hard work like this?

You know, if they were just attacking Ignatieff's policy that would be one thing, but this is why everyone hates politics these days.

I personally think this blog entry sums it up nicely.

http://cowboysforsocialresponsibility.blogspot.com/2011/03/is-baghdad-bob-running-harper-tory-war.html

MORE LIBERAL LIES! His father did not go to public school he went to Lower Canada Collage one of the most expensive private schools in Canada. Where he was educated with the Rest of Canada's elite. Imagine the Tsars Grandson in a public school!

Here in is the problem the Liberals are trying to rewrite history. Elections can't be won on lies no matter how small.

Edited March 20, 2011 by punked

[Topaz]

This is the video of a interview with Michael that aired today on CTV's QP. At the end of the video, he talks about his view on what the Tories are saying about his family. http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20110320/ignatieff-attacks-harper-spending-110320/

[nicky10013]

If people are only supposed to talk about policies, then Ignatieff shouldn't have been trying to portray himself as the child of hardscrabble immigrants in the first place. If he wants to play that card, then checking his story is fair game.

-k

That justifies the lies?

[punked]

That justifies the lies?

I don't remember you commenting on your own lie that George Ignatieff went to public school, not the George actually went to one of Canadians most elite private schools.

What justifies your lie? Oh is it that you are Liberal so it is ok?

[nicky10013]

MORE LIBERAL LIES! His father did not go to public school he went to Lower Canada Collage one of the most expensive private schools in Canada. Where he was educated with the Rest of Canada's elite. Imagine the Tsars Grandson in a public school!

Here in is the problem the Liberals are trying to rewrite history. Elections can't be won on lies no matter how small.

Check the earlier link I posted. He only went to Lower Canada College for a small period of time.

From the original post from the Government of Canada website.

While his father tried to raise funds in Europe for Russian refugees, Mrs. Ignatieff set out in 1928 with George and his brother, Leonid, for Canada, where two other brothers of George’s, Nick and Jim, had already settled.

Although there was barely enough money for basic necessities, George’s resourceful mother managed to squeeze enough out of the household budget to send her young son to Montreal’s exclusive Lower Canada College. The stock market crash of 1929, however, put an abrupt end to George’s private–school education. With the advent of the Great Depression, Ignatieff and the rest of his family united under one roof in Thornhill on the northern outskirts of Toronto

So, he went to LCC for at most a year, spent the rest of his time in the public education system, went to U of T where he earned himself a Rhodes Scholarship.

So tell me, where did he not earn that? Where exactly was it that his money - or the lack thereof - bought him those accomplishments?

Would someone actually answer these questions without resorting to actually dignifying these lies as though they're true?

[nicky10013]

I don't remember you commenting on your own lie that George Ignatieff went to public school, not the George actually went to one of Canadians most elite private schools.

What justifies your lie? Oh is it that you are Liberal so it is ok?

Just did. See above. Patience is a virtue.

[punked]

Check the earlier link I posted. He only went to Lower Canada College for a small period of time.

From the original post from the Government of Canada website.

So, he went to LCC for at most a year, spent the rest of his time in the public education system, went to U of T where he earned himself a Rhodes Scholarship.

So tell me, where did he not earn that? Where exactly was it that his money - or the lack thereof - bought him those accomplishments?

Would someone actually answer these questions without resorting to actually dignifying these lies as though they're true?

Wow you are as bad as the Conservatives. George went to St Paul's School a PRIVATE SCHOOL in London until he was 15 at which time they moved to Canada. Well St Paul's School was kinda a public school it was one of 9 schools created in England for the children of the "Elite" to attend. The 11 years before he came to Canada he lived on a PRIVATE estate in England attending another elite PRIVATE school.

He did go to Jarvis Collegiate Institute for one year though you are right. He attended a PUBLIC Grammar school in Ontario for his last year of school so he is clearly the everyman. You are being just as misleading as all Liberals including your Leader.

You might want to actually check out the Family. Up until the stock market crashed they had money.

"As the Bolshevik Revolution unfolded and the Ignatieffs fled Russia, they did not exactly leave penniless. As well as jewels and other valuables, the Ignatieffs departed Russia with assets already moved “off shore” from Russia to Britain and France. In 1919, Ignatieff’s grandfather, Paul Ignatieff, recovered some £25,000 sterling from the Midland Bank that had been on deposit to pay for an order of Egyptian cotton that had not been shipped."

http://thestar.blogs.com/politics/2011/03/the-conservative-party-bids-a-warm-welcome-to-immigrants.html

There is nothing wrong with his families history. They had hardship they suffered and I think it would do the Liberal well to tell that story. However I think to act as if they had no money when the records clearly show they had plenty of money is wrong. Unless they spent that 25,000 sterling which was actually 125,000 dollars at the time. A LOT of money in the 1920s.

Edited March 20, 2011 by punked

[nicky10013]

Wow you are as bad as the Conservatives. George went to St Paul's School a PRIVATE SCHOOL in London until he was 15 at which time they moved to Canada. Well St Paul's School was kinda a public school it was one of 9 schools created in England for the children of the "Elite" to attend. The 11 years before he came to Canada he lived on a PRIVATE estate in England attending another elite PRIVATE school.

He did go to Jarvis Collegiate Institute for one year though you are right. He attended a PUBLIC Grammar school in Ontario for his last year of school so he is clearly the everyman. You are being just as misleading as all Liberals including your Leader.

You might want to actually check out the Family. Up until the stock market crashed they had money.

"As the Bolshevik Revolution unfolded and the Ignatieffs fled Russia, they did not exactly leave penniless. As well as jewels and other valuables, the Ignatieffs departed Russia with assets already moved “off shore” from Russia to Britain and France. In 1919, Ignatieff’s grandfather, Paul Ignatieff, recovered some £25,000 sterling from the Midland Bank that had been on deposit to pay for an order of Egyptian cotton that had not been shipped."

http://thestar.blogs.com/politics/2011/03/the-conservative-party-bids-a-warm-welcome-to-immigrants.html

There is nothing wrong with his families history. They had hardship they suffered and I think it would do the Liberal well to tell that story. However I think to act as if they had no money when the records clearly show they had plenty of money is wrong. Unless they spent that 25,000 sterling which was actually 125,000 dollars at the time. A LOT of money in the 1920s.

You do realize this is just a reprint of the Conservative attack, right?

[punked]

You do realize this is just a reprint of the Conservative attack, right?

Sure do so I expect that if it is false Mr. Ignatieff will sue of Libel. You will have to tell me how it goes. By the way no one "scrapes" together enough money to send their child to Lower Canada Collage I am sure the truth is somewhere in the middle however the Liberals are being as bad as the Conservatives with the propaganda.

Edited March 20, 2011 by punked

[kimmy]

I assume we can take Michael Ignatieff's word for it?

"It would have been natural for the family to have remained in Paris. It was the capital of the Russian emigre community. The headquarters of the Russian Red CCross in exile, of which Paul was president, had been established there. French was Paul's second language. Yet he was determined to get to England. He knew that a Liverpool broker owed him money for a transation involving cotton deliveries to Paul's factories near Moscow. If he could find the broker and get him to honour the debt, the family's destitution could be remedied."

-Michael Ignatieff, The Russian Album (chapter 8, Savage Lands Afar.)

"They were penniless when they arrived in England, but there was the matter of the Liverpool cotton broker who owed him something like 25,000 pounds for Egyptian cotton for which Paul had paid for but which the war had prevented from being delivered to his factories. The money Paul had paid for the cotton had been deposited in an English bank. A month or so after their arrival, Paul saw a notice in The Times to the effect that Count Ignatieff should get in touch with the Midland Bank, where he would find information to his benefit. Paul had no papers, no proof of his identity, but as luck would have it, he ran into his Moscow lawyer on his way into the bank and together they managed to prove that the money was his."

-Michael Ignatieff, The Russian Album (chapter 8, Savage Lands Afar.)

While it may be true that they left Russia with nothing, they weren't destitute for long. 25000 British pounds was an enormous sum of money at the time.

1 pound in 1920 is equal to 26.75 pounds in 2009, so shortly after they arrived in England, the Ignatieffs collected the equivalent of 668000 current-day pounds, or over 1 million present-day Canadian dollars.

Not exactly "hardscrabble" by most peoples' standards.

-k

{Yeah, I bought the book. I'll read it, too.}

Edited March 21, 2011 by kimmy

[punked]

It wont matter Kimmy he is a Liberal so nicky thinks he can't lie.