bush_cheney2004 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 LOL! So now Fox News is the paragon of accurate reporting....can't make this stuff up! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 LOL! So now Fox News is the paragon of accurate reporting....can't make this stuff up! Actually it's not accurate, we are not told everything, but several sources are claiming the incident is now classified as a 6. Chernobyl was a 7. That should be a good indicator of what is really going on regardless of some of the drivel in the article. Typical BC. Quote
wyly Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 This happened this morning when radiation levels near the plant reached slightly dangerous levels but the levels quickly peaked and are now back to minor radiation levels. Japan's nuclear safety agency says it suspects an explosion at a nuclear power plant may have damaged a reactor's container and fears a radiation leak....A top Japanese official said the fuel rods in all three of the operational reactors at the Fukushima Dai-ichi plant appeared to be melting."Although we cannot directly check it, it's highly likely happening," Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told reporters.... but of course you know better In other news 9700 people who were missing and presumed dead have been found safe and sound at the designated evacuation point. in other news the official death toll has surpassed three thousand after your expert opinion told us it would stay around one thousand... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 Evac area around the nuke plant has been extented to 30+kms, I expect that to go up to 40, perhaps 50km radius. And around the other plant, the PM of Japan last night was saying that they are evacuating 10km radius around that because of similar fears with the towers blowing. I believe this is much worse than what we are being told. It's not worse than Chernobyl, but it's worse than 3 mile Island. one nuclear expert said today that in a worst case scenario it could end up Chernobyl times 3, only minus the chimney effect of fires to spread the contamination long distances... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
GostHacked Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 one nuclear expert said today that in a worst case scenario it could end up Chernobyl times 3, only minus the chimney effect of fires to spread the contamination long distances... We see now it's been downplayed from the start, that much is obvious. I know the media does not want to have everyone panic, but at least give the people the right information without sensationalizing it. Informed people can make better decisions as to what to for plan next. Quote
wyly Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 We see now it's been downplayed from the start, that much is obvious. I know the media does not want to have everyone panic, but at least give the people the right information without sensationalizing it. Informed people can make better decisions as to what to for plan next. I can understand the need to prevent panic but ya by not informing people with all the scenarios and up to date info does not help the situation...lack of info/evasion creates panic... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
WIP Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, judging from who wrote the OP, but a shifting of the continental plates has nothing to do with divine judgment. And making stupid, uninformed comments about how they are suffering divine judgment now because of their pride and greed is in bad taste, and likely racist as well! But, as for whether this is the end of an empire...well first of all, Japan lost their empire in 1945 and became absorbed into the U.S. Empire; and what we are now learning, is that just as with the oil industry, people who have large financial stakes in an industry cannot be trusted to manage it safely without effective GOVERNMENT oversight! Reuters is now carrying a story that some bloggers had picked up from RT last night, quoting Russian nuclear specialist Iouli Andreev on the lessons that should have been learned (but weren't) after Chernoby. Andreev sees the primary fault as putting money ahead of public safety, and blames both the Japanese Government for not standing up to the industry, and surprisingly also - the IAEA, which he declares is also co-opted by the nuclear industry, and is not a neutral governing body as it portrays itself. Cost-cutting took precedence over safety in decisions such as storing spent fuel rods next to reactor buildings was one of those mistakes, since we now learn that one of the fires occurred when spent fuel rods in a basin, were exposed to the air after one of the containment buildings exploded and evaporated the water where the rods were kept. Next question: can we trust the government public safety reports on the nuclear power industry here not to be doing similar high risk strategies? Nuclear power stations are located near large bodies of water such as lakes and rivers, because of the high volume of water needed for cooling reactors. A meltdown almost guarantees that nearby waters will be contaminated....as we will learn about soon from Japan. Also, many nuclear power stations have been built near earthquake fault lines, so how safe are nuclear stations in North America in the event of an earthquake? Unfortunately, there's only one way to find out. When it comes to the economic fallout of this disaster, I will be interested to see what Japan decides to do in the coming weeks to cover the billions of dollars in costs to deal with this disaster. Japan is the 2nd largest holder of U.S. government debt after China; if they decide to sell billions of dollars worth of T-bills to keep their economy afloat, where would that leave the U.S. Dollar? I'm willing to bet right now, that this is the primary concern of the U.S. Government. Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) ...When it comes to the economic fallout of this disaster, I will be interested to see what Japan decides to do in the coming weeks to cover the billions of dollars in costs to deal with this disaster. Japan is the 2nd largest holder of U.S. government debt after China; if they decide to sell billions of dollars worth of T-bills to keep their economy afloat, where would that leave the U.S. Dollar? I'm willing to bet right now, that this is the primary concern of the U.S. Government. The expected repatriation of billions in yen to shore up the domestic insurance losses will happen, same as with the Kobe earthquake event. But Japan's already strained debt-to-GDP ratio will grow larger as massive injections by government are made. This may put downward pressure on the US dollar, but at a significant cost to Japan's exports. The US has been there...done that, and the late 90's was quite a ride....up! For the record, Chernobyl happened in 1986, many years after siting the damaged power plant units. Edited March 15, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Post To The Left Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 When it comes to the economic fallout of this disaster, I will be interested to see what Japan decides to do in the coming weeks to cover the billions of dollars in costs to deal with this disaster. The Japanese are some of the most responsible in world when it comes to insurance. I'm sure the rates of people covered in the affected region is something like 99%. While Japanese domestic companies will take a hit most of the Japanese insurance companies are covered by reinsurance companies (Companies who insure the insurers) that are mainly Swiss, and German. I'm far from an expert at finical stuff but these companies have already taken a hit with the US mortgage crisis and economic recession. I hope they provide the money they promised and it doesn't turn into another Fannie Fae type situation. Quote
Post To The Left Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 one nuclear expert said today that in a worst case scenario it could end up Chernobyl times 3, only minus the chimney effect of fires to spread the contamination long distances... How could it be Chernobyl times 3 when Chernobyl was an out of control nuclear reaction? The Japanese reactors shut down as soon as, if not before, the quake struck. There is no more fission going on, hasn't been since the quake. Sure the core is incredibly hot but each day it is cooled down more. Quote
Post To The Left Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 It's so cliche to knock the french but come on: French Embassy Fuels Panic With False Message About Approaching Radiation Also people are using the crisis to spread malware. The BBC is reporting that the radiation message is fake and that the "The US Computer Emergency Readiness Team (US-CERT) has told computer users to be wary of potential e-mail scams, as well as fake anti-virus and phishing attacks regarding the Japan earthquake and the tsunami disasters." Quote
dre Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 The containment vessels are 1 meter thick steel. The blasts were so weak they left the building superstructure in place. There is zero change that these explosions damaged the vessels themselves. Also Monday, an explosion in the building housing the plant's No. 3 reactor apparently damaged both a water-filled chamber at the base of the reactor and the reactor containment unit itself, IAEA Director General Yukiya Amano told reporters Tuesday. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
GostHacked Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 How could it be Chernobyl times 3 when Chernobyl was an out of control nuclear reaction? The Japanese reactors shut down as soon as, if not before, the quake struck. There is no more fission going on, hasn't been since the quake. Sure the core is incredibly hot but each day it is cooled down more. Yeah they start to cool down once they blow up. Quote
Post To The Left Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 Yeah they start to cool down once they blow up. Nuclear material material doesn't explode unless there is a nuclear reaction. Uranium isn't like gunpowder where if you light it on fire it will start a nuclear bomb. Chernobyl was the result of an out of control nuclear reaction. In Japan the nuclear reaction was shut off at or before the earthquake struck. Quote
wyly Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 How could it be Chernobyl times 3 when Chernobyl was an out of control nuclear reaction? The Japanese reactors shut down as soon as, if not before, the quake struck. There is no more fission going on, hasn't been since the quake. Sure the core is incredibly hot but each day it is cooled down more. that's why workers at the plant were evacuated today, because the situation is improving ...you may have heard the term "dirty bomb" an actual nuclear explosion isn't required... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) Nuclear material material doesn't explode unless there is a nuclear reaction. Uranium isn't like gunpowder where if you light it on fire it will start a nuclear bomb. Chernobyl was the result of an out of control nuclear reaction. In Japan the nuclear reaction was shut off at or before the earthquake struck.Chernobyl didn't have a nuclear explosion either otherwise it would not be still in operation today...it had a steam explosion the following meltdown created fires which spread the contamination...fire in the area of spent fuel rods in Japan threatens the same situation...the cause of the meltdown maybe different but the results will be the same... Edited March 16, 2011 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) How could it be Chernobyl times 3 when Chernobyl was an out of control nuclear reaction? The Japanese reactors shut down as soon as, if not before, the quake struck. There is no more fission going on, hasn't been since the quake. Sure the core is incredibly hot but each day it is cooled down more. well now it may be potentially six times worse than chernobyl, only one reator melted down in Chernobyl there are six in various stages of meltdown or impending meltdown in Japan...the world's nuclear experts are warning of dire consequences if this isn't halted but you with your vastly superior nuclear knowledge know better...maybe you should personally call the Japanese PM and reassure him... Edited March 16, 2011 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Post To The Left Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 that's why workers at the plant were evacuated today, because the situation is improving ...you may have heard the term "dirty bomb" an actual nuclear explosion isn't required... Dirty bomb isn't what happened in Chernobyl. For a dirty bomb you need a huge explosive device to scatter the radioactive material over a large area. Unless the firefighters are fighting the fire with explosive shells, I'm safe. Fire fighters were only evacuated temporarily. Quote
wyly Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 Yeah they start to cool down once they blow up. pretty much... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Post To The Left Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 Chernobyl didn't have a nuclear explosion either otherwise it would not be still in operation today...it had a steam explosion the following meltdown created fires which spread the contamination...fire in the area of spent fuel rods in Japan threatens the same situation...the cause of the meltdown maybe different but the results will be the same... I didn't say it was a nuclear explosion I said out of control nuclear reaction combined with the fact Soviet reactors weren't enclosed in steel containment units hence the need for the cement Sarcophagus. Japans reactors shut down right away. Also, the Japanese reactors which are contained in steel containment units preventing further damage. Quote
wyly Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) Dirty bomb isn't what happened in Chernobyl. For a dirty bomb you need a huge explosive device to scatter the radioactive material over a large area. Unless the firefighters are fighting the fire with explosive shells, I'm safe. Fire fighters were only evacuated temporarily. .incorrect, fire creates chimney effect that spreads contaminated material high into the atmosphere from where the wind moves it, no explosion is needed...and that is exactly what happened in Chernobyl...firefighters were on a lunch break no doubt... Edited March 16, 2011 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 I didn't say it was a nuclear explosion I said out of control nuclear reaction combined with the fact Soviet reactors weren't enclosed in steel containment units hence the need for the cement Sarcophagus. Japans reactors shut down right away. Also, the Japanese reactors which are contained in steel containment units preventing further damage. it doesn't matter if the reactors are shutdown or not once the rods are exposed and not cooled a meltdowwn occurs, with a meltdown comes fire and explosions... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Post To The Left Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 Chernobyl plant was testing a new safety device. Shit went wrong and the reaction rate, the nuclear reaction rate spiked causing the control rods that would normally shut down the reactor to get stuck only a third of the way in. Without the control rods the nuclear reaction went out of control becoming so hot that it caused material to catch fire. The reactor kept increasing and jumped to around 30 GW thermal, ten times the normal operational output. The continuing nuclear reaction caused an explosion ejecting all cooling water and remaining control rods. This increased the nuclear reaction even more causing a nuclear excursion or criticality accident. In Japan the reactors shut down as soon as or before the quake hit. Quote
wyly Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 and about that death toll that you insisted would stay around a thousand, it's now 3,771 with nearly 8,000 still missing Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 Chernobyl plant was testing a new safety device. Shit went wrong and the reaction rate, the nuclear reaction rate spiked causing the control rods that would normally shut down the reactor to get stuck only a third of the way in. Without the control rods the nuclear reaction went out of control becoming so hot that it caused material to catch fire. The reactor kept increasing and jumped to around 30 GW thermal, ten times the normal operational output. The continuing nuclear reaction caused an explosion ejecting all cooling water and remaining control rods. This increased the nuclear reaction even more causing a nuclear excursion or criticality accident. In Japan the reactors shut down as soon as or before the quake hit. different causes the results end up the same...meltdown, fire, contamination... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
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