The end of the empire of Japan

[bush_cheney2004]

At the time they had no way to know if meltdowns had occurred. In any case, meltdowns are a red herring because they don't matter if the radiation is kept contained. That appears to be the case. At the time I had not completely understood that a meltdown is not the total disaster that nuclear-phobes make them out to be.

But what really matters is the effect on human health in the years after the accident....

Agreed, but there is no fun in that...no wild panic drama for our pending doom and the end of the world. Far less dramatic is the long slog that monitors levels, contains/controls the damaged site, and ultimately cleans up the mess. Those who feel they live in an uncontrolled world full of imminent risk and peril will always jump off the cliff for a thing like Fukushima, while completely discounting far more relevant and likely risks to health and safety.

Nuclear power is here to stay, if only because it is part of a wise, diversified energy policy. Those who are afraid of it would only find something else to fear in its absence.

[bush_cheney2004]

More good news from Japan:

High levels of a toxic substance called strontium-90 have been found in groundwater at the devastated Fukushima Daiichi power plant in Japan — coming to light even as the country moves closer to bringing its nuclear reactors back online.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2013/06/19/japan-nuclear-fukushima-safety-requirements.html

...and we're all not dying yet. Go nukes !

[GostHacked]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/07/22/japan-fukushima-nuclear-radioactive-leak.html

More good news from Japan

A Japanese utility has said its crippled Fukushima nuclear plant is likely to have leaked contaminated water into sea, acknowledging for the first time a problem long suspected by experts.

Experts have suspected a continuous leak since the Fukushima Dai-ichi plant was ravaged by the March 2011 earthquake and tsunami.

Just gets better and better.

[GostHacked]

More good news.

Apparently TEPCO is concerned that #3 will blow its lid again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxpYfuY0_Pc

[GostHacked]

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/07/19910577-wrecked-fukushima-nuke-plant-leaking-330-tons-of-contaminated-water-a-day?lite

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe on Wednesday ordered increased efforts to stop radiation-contaminated water from spilling into the Pacific Ocean from the wrecked Fukushima nuclear plant.

A government official told reporters Wednesday that an estimated 300 metric tons (330 tons) of contaminated water was leaking into the ocean every day from the Daiichi plant, which was devastated by the March 2011 earthquake and tsunami, Reuters reported.

The official also said the government believed the leaks had been happening for two years.

Let's peg it at 300 metric tons per day.. two and a half years is 912 days. 912x300 = 273750 metric tons of radioactive water has spilled into the ocean since the start of this disaster.

Edited August 7, 2013 by GostHacked

[GostHacked]

Some new video with the tsunami.

From eerie quiet to mayhem in under 10 minutes ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc4sQT_2GGE#at=196

[Wilber]

Godzilla may turn out to be more than just a movie.

[TimG]

912x300 = 273750 metric tons of radioactive water has spilled into the ocean since the start of this disaster.

Lets put it another way: 273750 is metric tons a block 64 meters on side. Each day it is a block 7m on a side. Assuming it spread through a 1 km x 1km block of seawater in front of the plant the resulting concentration is about 270ppm. This is equal to the concentration of Ne+He gases in the atmosphere. Over time this will dilute even further.

Of course, this assumes the 'radioactive water' actually has dangerous levels of radioactivity. It does not automatically follow since safety levels are set way below what is actually dangerous.

Edited August 15, 2013 by TimG

[GostHacked]

Lets put it another way: 273750 is metric tons a block 64 meters on side. Each day it is a block 7m on a side. Assuming it spread through a 1 km x 1km block of seawater in front of the plant the resulting concentration is about 270ppm. This is equal to the concentration of Ne+He gases in the atmosphere. Over time this will dilute even further.

Of course, this assumes the 'radioactive water' actually has dangerous levels of radioactivity. It does not automatically follow since safety levels are set way below what is actually dangerous.

You don't get it, they cannot control or stop the leaks. They also have no where to put the stuff if they manage to collect it all.

It's not 'radioactive water'. It is radioactive water.

[TimG]

You don't get it, they cannot control or stop the leaks.

So? You have not provided any evidence that the leaks represent a dangerous amount of radiation after it is diluted in seawater (I provided an analysis that suggests it is not). People get there knickers in a knot because there is 'radiation' but radiation is not necessarily bad since we are exposed to natural sources of radiation all of the time.

Provide evidence that the leaked radiation is actually a real environmental problem rather than a perception problem because it puts nuclear-phobes into a tizzie.

Edited August 16, 2013 by TimG

[GostHacked]

So? You have not provided any evidence that the leaks represent a dangerous amount of radiation after it is diluted in seawater (I provided an analysis that suggests it is not). People get there knickers in a knot because there is 'radiation' but radiation is not necessarily bad since we are exposed to natural sources of radiation all of the time.

Provide evidence that the leaked radiation is actually a real environmental problem rather than a perception problem because it puts nuclear-phobes into a tizzie.

The evidence is already there. Two years later and this disaster is still ongoing.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=radioactive-water-leaks-from-fukushima

Scientists on both sides of the Pacific have measured changing levels of radioactivity in fish and other ocean life since the March 2011 earthquake and tsunami triggered a nuclear meltdown at Japan’s Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant. On Aug. 2, 2013, when Japan’s Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) gave its first estimate of how much radioactive water from the nuclear plant has flowed into the ocean since the disaster, the company was finally facing up to what scientists have recognized for years.

"As an oceanographer looking at the reactor, we've known this since 2011," said Ken Buesseler, a marine chemist at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute in Woods Hole, Mass. "The news is TEPCO is finally admitting this."

TEPCO has failed in every step along the way. Remember took them 6 months to even admit that they had 3 complete meltdowns, and one meltthrough.

"The amount of increase is still much smaller today than it was in 2011," Buesseler told LiveScience. "I'm not as concerned about the immediate health threat of human exposure, but I am worried about contamination of marine life in the long run."

So the so called small amounts of radiation are going to do a number on smaller marine life. This will affect the food chain, less smaller fish, less bigger fish, and less food for a growing population.

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/forum/218/are-fish-pacific-ocean-and-japanese-coastal-and-inland-waters-safe-eat-16-months-after-fuk

Are fish from the Pacific Ocean and Japanese coastal and inland waters safe to eat 16 months after the Fukushima nuclear disaster?

Governments and many scientists say they are. But the largest collection of data on radiation in Japanese fish tells a very different story.

In June, 56 percent of Japanese fish catches tested by the Japanese government were contaminated with ce-sium-137 and -134. (Both are human-made radioactive isotopes—produced through nuclear fission—of the element cesium.)

And 9.3 percent of the catches exceeded Japan’s official ceiling for cesium, which is 100 becquerels per kilogram (Bq/kg). (A becquerel is a unit of radioactivity equal to one nuclear disintegration per second.)

Radiation levels remain especially high in many species that Japan has exported to Canada in recent years, such as cod, sole, halibut, landlocked kokanee, carp, trout, and eel.

Of these species, cod, sole, and halibut, which are oceanic species, could also be fished by other nations that export their Pacific Ocean catch to Canada.

The revelations come from the Japanese Fisheries Agency’s radiation tests on almost 14,000 commercial fish catches in both international Pacific and Japanese waters since March 11, 2011, when an earthquake and tsunami triggered multiple meltdowns at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant.

It's quite obvious TEPCO has been attempting to cover up as much as they can. It's not perception, it is a shocking reality.

Two years later and the disaster is still ongoing.

[TimG]

The evidence is already there. Two years later and this disaster is still ongoing.

I have yet to see evidence of that. Leaks of water with radiation does not equal a disaster.

And 9.3 percent of the catches exceeded Japan’s official ceiling for cesium, which is 100 becquerels per kilogram (Bq/kg).

Where is your evidence that this represents a danger? Official limits are always set well below the danger point. Exceeding the limits means they have work to do but that is not proof in itself that there is any danger.

[GostHacked]

I have yet to see evidence of that. Leaks of water with radiation does not equal a disaster.

Where is your evidence that this represents a danger? Official limits are always set well below the danger point. Exceeding the limits means they have work to do but that is not proof in itself that there is any danger.

You've been absent from this thread for some time. Best you do your work now to catch up. We know and can easily see a systematic cover up of TEPCOs mistakes, plunders, misinformation that is downright criminal.

This is a disaster, and an ongoing one.

[TimG]

We know and can easily see a systematic cover up of TEPCOs mistakes, plunders, misinformation that is downright criminal.

That does not establish that there is a disaster or that the problems are serious.

You really need to separate bureaucratic problems from problems which represent a real danger to human health. You seem to assume that any problem is a disaster. That is not the case.

Edited August 16, 2013 by TimG

[GostHacked]

TimG, on 16 Aug 2013 - 1:36 PM, said:

That does not establish that there is a disaster or that the problems are serious.

You really need to separate bureaucratic problems from problems which represent a real danger to human health. You seem to assume that any problem is a disaster. That is not the case.

Wanna go to Fukushima then?

[TimG]

Wanna go to Fukushima then?

You are evading my question: where is your evidence that we are dealing with real human health issues as opposed to minor bureaucratic compliance issues?

Personally, if I had a reason to go to Fukushima it would not bother me.

Edited August 16, 2013 by TimG

[jbg]

That does not establish that there is a disaster or that the problems are serious.

You really need to separate bureaucratic problems from problems which represent a real danger to human health. You seem to assume that any problem is a disaster. That is not the case.

Agreed. I believe in risk management, not risk elimination. The latter would drastically lower many living standards, and not necessarily the wealthy people's first.

[GostHacked]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/08/22/fukushima-japan-radioactive-leak.html

More issues. Recently they upgraded the severity from 1 to a 3 on the international atomic disaster scale. Highly radioactive water being stored on site is leaking again.

Tokyo Electric Power Company workers have detected high levels of radiation in a ditch that flows into the ocean from a leaking tank at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.

Japan's nuclear watchdog said Thursday the leak could be the beginning of a new disaster — a series of leaks of contaminated water from hundreds of steel tanks holdng massive amounts of radioactive water coming from three melted reactors, as well as underground water running into reactor and turbine basements.

Tokyo Electric Power Co. says about 300,000 litres of contaminated water leaked from one of the tanks, possibly through a seam. The leak is the fifth, and worst, since last year involving tanks of the same design at the wrecked Fukushima Dai-ichi plant, raising concerns that contaminated water could begin leaking from storage tanks one after another.

It's not a new disaster, this is a 2 year ongoing disaster.

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/forum/218/nuclear-expert-fukushima-spent-fuel-has-85-times-more-cesium-released-chernobyl-%E2%80%94-%E2%80%9Cit-woul

Many of our readers might find it difficult to appreciate the actual meaning of the figure, yet we can grasp what 85 times more Cesium-137 than the Chernobyl would mean. It would destroy the world environment and our civilization. This is not rocket science, nor does it connect to the pugilistic debate over nuclear power plants. This is an issue of human survival.

Not just the cesium, I want to hear about the plutonium and uranium that was used at this plant. Reactor 3 was not a typical reactor it was a classified as a MOX reactor, meaning it was using a mix of uranium and plutonium.

Cesium is has much shorter half lives compared to that of plutonium and urianum, which are rarely if ever mentioned when talking about the radiation. There are bits of fuel rods littering a 5 mile radius of the plant.

[TimG]

More issues. Recently they upgraded the severity from 1 to a 3 on the international atomic disaster scale. Highly radioactive water being stored on site is leaking again.

3 out of 7 levels. Level 3 incidents are serious but contained within the boundaries of the plant. IOW - no disaster.

Irrational responses like yours to nuclear issues create more harm than good.

[GostHacked]

3 out of 7 levels. Level 3 incidents are serious but contained within the boundaries of the plant. IOW - no disaster.

Irrational responses like yours to nuclear issues create more harm than good.

What is irrational is the level of cover up TEPCO and Japan has done to make this issue seem like no big deal. Again, took them close to 6 months to even admit meltdowns happened. Then we find out 300 tones of radioactive water has been spilling into the ocean daily since the disaster. Bits of radioactive fuel rods litter the landscape after #3 blew its top (fuel rods were stored on TOP of the reactor). And now they are very concerned about the fuel pool storage near #4. Would have dire consequences for all of Japan and well, for the most of the planet. You sure you trust anything they say? My statements cannot do any damage at all, compared to what damage has already taken place and will continue to take place after three complete meltdowns. The last claim is that the clean up with take over a decade.

And after all this I am the one being irrational?

[TimG]

What is irrational is the level of cover up TEPCO and Japan has done to make this issue seem like no big deal.

It is a problem that will take some time to sort out. The only irrational people are those like you who grossly exaggerate the dangers associated with low level radiation and fly in gibbering panic whenever you hear the word 'radiation leak'.

Like I said: more harm has been caused by the fear of radiation than by radiation itself - a fear that only exists because of irrational panic mongers.

Edited August 24, 2013 by TimG

[GostHacked]

There is a reason to be concerned. Cranes are remotely operated because the radiation is too high for people.

Reactor 3 is damaged beyond repair and is still exposed to the air. Reactor #4 was not running and yet exploded. All the fuel rods were stored on top. Boom, guess where they went.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtHU4kl4X6o

[GostHacked]

Not getting any better.

The tanks used to store the radioactive waste water is up the hill from the plant. Any problem with these tanks (and there already have been) the radioactive water will continue to leak into the Pacific ocean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHAW0RPQru8

[eyeball]

The world might want to think about getting it's ass over there to do something about our plight.

[bush_cheney2004]

The world might want to think about getting it's ass over there to do something about our plight.

Why ? More people have died from one oil train derailment than from leaking reactor vessels.