guyser Posted March 7, 2011 Report Posted March 7, 2011 http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadhttp://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canada-warned-not-to-follow-us-tough-on-crime-mistakes/article1929448/a-warned-not-to-follow-us-tough-on-crime-mistakes/article1929448/ But I doubt it. Someone has been there done that, but it likely wont be enough. Go on Harper Government,spend another billion we dont have. Quote
scouterjim Posted March 7, 2011 Report Posted March 7, 2011 http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadhttp://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canada-warned-not-to-follow-us-tough-on-crime-mistakes/article1929448/a-warned-not-to-follow-us-tough-on-crime-mistakes/article1929448/ But I doubt it. Someone has been there done that, but it likely wont be enough. Go on Harper Government,spend another billion we dont have. Yup. Let's molly coddle criminals. Treat them like kings. Give them whatever they want. After all, THEY are the real victims, not those who they perpetrated crimes against. Quote I have captured the rare duct taped platypus.
Mr.Canada Posted March 7, 2011 Report Posted March 7, 2011 http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadhttp://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canada-warned-not-to-follow-us-tough-on-crime-mistakes/article1929448/a-warned-not-to-follow-us-tough-on-crime-mistakes/article1929448/ But I doubt it. Someone has been there done that, but it likely wont be enough. Go on Harper Government,spend another billion we dont have. Are you actually calling for less spending to take place? You're a fiscal conservative now? Welcome aboard Guyser. Have you seen what the socialist savior Barrack Hussein Obama is doing down in the US? The national debt is set to go up $1.5 trillion this year alone. What you have to say about that? Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Jack Weber Posted March 7, 2011 Report Posted March 7, 2011 Are you actually calling for less spending to take place? You're a fiscal conservative now? Welcome aboard Guyser. Have you seen what the socialist savior Barrack Hussein Obama is doing down in the US? The national debt is set to go up $1.5 trillion this year alone. What you have to say about that? By using his middle name,are youimplying that the President of the United States is a radical Islamist?? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Scotty Posted March 7, 2011 Report Posted March 7, 2011 http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadhttp://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canada-warned-not-to-follow-us-tough-on-crime-mistakes/article1929448/a-warned-not-to-follow-us-tough-on-crime-mistakes/article1929448/ But I doubt it. Someone has been there done that, but it likely wont be enough. Go on Harper Government,spend another billion we dont have. The laws Harper has proposed and brought in are nowhere near as severe as what the U.S. has in place, for drug crimes, for violent crimes, or for white collar crimes. There are a lot of people in the U.S. serving scores of years, even hundreds of years, for non-violent offenses. The sentences sometimes handed out for small, non-violent drug crimes is particularly ridiculous. If 'this guy' had a look at the situation in Canada he'd probably urge stiffer sentencing here. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
guyser Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Posted March 7, 2011 Yup. Let's molly coddle criminals. Treat them like kings. Give them whatever they want. After all, THEY are the real victims, not those who they perpetrated crimes against. Uh....are you ill? Good lord, can you post your reply in the appropriate thread since what you have posted in this one has absolutely nothing to do with "listening to this guy" . Lets see...from the article...molly coddle ...Nope...treat like Kings....Nope....give them what they want...Nope...real victims...Nope But hey, 2 internet points for the talking points bulletin on how to muddy the message. Congrats! Quote
Jerry J. Fortin Posted March 7, 2011 Report Posted March 7, 2011 Yup. Let's molly coddle criminals. Treat them like kings. Give them whatever they want. After all, THEY are the real victims, not those who they perpetrated crimes against. Perhaps part of the problem is in how we treat prisoners. I can see a few drawbacks with the current system, such as letting the bastards back out into society. Aside from that I believe we spend too much to look after these criminals. I suggest that we can do this cheaper and better than we do. Quote
Topaz Posted March 7, 2011 Report Posted March 7, 2011 Are you actually calling for less spending to take place? You're a fiscal conservative now? Welcome aboard Guyser. Have you seen what the socialist savior Barrack Hussein Obama is doing down in the US? The national debt is set to go up $1.5 trillion this year alone. What you have to say about that? Take a look at the chart and then think again,especially under Bush. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms Quote
guyser Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Posted March 7, 2011 If 'this guy' had a look at the situation in Canada he'd probably urge stiffer sentencing here. This guy was speaking at a Commons Commitee. Something tells me he knows a little bit about what goes on. Hey maybe he doesnt think getting tougher longer sentences in a country where violent crime is dropping is a good idea. Oh the horrors! Quote
guyser Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Posted March 7, 2011 Are you actually calling for less spending to take place? You're a fiscal conservative now? Welcome aboard Guyser. What? I wasnt before? You misread me Sir C. Harper wants to add another $1Billion for the prisons and longer sentences.....dumb idea from a dumb govt. Have you seen what the socialist savior Barrack Hussein Obama is doing down in the US? The national debt is set to go up $1.5 trillion this year alone. What you have to say about that? Thats relevant to this how? Quote
punked Posted March 7, 2011 Report Posted March 7, 2011 Take a look at the chart and then think again,especially under Bush. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms Wow I have never seen that before but it really puts it in perspective. At 85% debt to GDP it is pretty hard at that point to dial it back. The problem is their is a tipping point where service payments become unmanageable Bush really put them in a pickle I never knew it was that bad. Quote
William Ashley Posted March 7, 2011 Report Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) It would save a lot of money to take Californian sentencing provisions (not my bag) but it is better than the current Canadian system - the more packed the jails are (and in line in violation of human right laws) the less time the f---ups get. (While dangerous offenders just get packed in more and more) It is a bit of a deterent. My approach though is to move the willing to work camps - perhaps with more room and air. To develope the north and help with Canadian military remote area protection tasks. Its not like Harper Government cares about human rights anyway. Sadly the convoluted party/man has taken the opposite approach and increased peoples jail time and built more prisons. TOTALLY not the economical approach. We should all realize a huge chunk of people doing jail time are just annoying but do you want to be paying to feed and house them for spray painting something? It makes far more sense for them to correct the error and and make up for more damages rather than -- increasing your taxes in ADDITION to not getting your wall cleaned up and having to do it yourself. The system is screwed up then people like Harper come along and make it worse and more of an injustice and counter productive. PUT THEM TO WORK! We need a return of indentured servatude and save the jails to dangerous people not willing to relocate to remote area work camps - not turn them into training camps for people to become dangerous and criminally connected. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant and we should train them to lead lives while they pay pack society and save up for their freedom. Edited March 7, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
Mr.Canada Posted March 7, 2011 Report Posted March 7, 2011 What? I wasnt before? You misread me Sir C. Harper wants to add another $1Billion for the prisons and longer sentences.....dumb idea from a dumb govt. Thats relevant to this how? $1B is actually a drop in the bucket for the amount of money that crime costs society. I have no problem with spending money on law and order. We haven't built a Federal prison in around 40 years. Our population was 15 million then. It's now over 33 million but we still have the same prison infrastructure. In the same time we've added to our water systems, sewers, telephone line, power lines, roads and all other infrastructure...except prisons. Before you quote the decreased violent crime rate. 2% of 33 million is higher number of prisoners then 3% of 15 million. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Evening Star Posted March 7, 2011 Report Posted March 7, 2011 That chart is amazing, Topaz. Basically, every increase in the debt has come under a Republican president. Quote
Scotty Posted March 7, 2011 Report Posted March 7, 2011 This guy was speaking at a Commons Commitee. Something tells me he knows a little bit about what goes on. Hey maybe he doesnt think getting tougher longer sentences in a country where violent crime is dropping is a good idea. Oh the horrors! To begin with, violent crime is NOT dropping. There's no evidence he knows a damned thing about the laws in Canada. He was brought in by the opposition, who are unlikely to have given him much of a briefing. To me, he has no more credibility than Michael Moore demanding we not elect a conservative government. I like Moore, but he clearly hadn't the first clue how different conservatism was in Canada as opposed to the religious right conservatism down south. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
guyser Posted March 8, 2011 Author Report Posted March 8, 2011 To begin with, violent crime is NOT dropping. Ok, tell Stats Can to stop saying it....k ? I guess that 3% drop in 2009 and 17% drop from a decade ago is NOT dropping ? There's no evidence he knows a damned thing about the laws in Canada.Didnt say that. Said he has an idea about what he is talking about, which is in his experience, the US made the wrong choice and is paying the piper.Thinks we shouldnt be as misguided. Quote
Scotty Posted March 8, 2011 Report Posted March 8, 2011 Ok, tell Stats Can to stop saying it....k ? I guess that 3% drop in 2009 and 17% drop from a decade ago is NOT dropping ? Stats Canada makes no such claim. Didnt say that. Said he has an idea about what he is talking about, which is in his experience, the US made the wrong choice and is paying the piper.Thinks we shouldnt be as misguided. We;re not as misguided. American sentencing can be ridiculous. No one has proposed we go that route. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
guyser Posted March 8, 2011 Author Report Posted March 8, 2011 (edited) Stats Canada makes no such claim. Oh , sorry to bother you then. But if you'd like to read it..... The national crime rate reached its lowest point in over 25 years in 2006. The crime rate dropped by 3% last year, following a 5% decline in 2005. The crime rate has decreased by about 30% since peaking in 1991, after increasing steadily throughout the 1960s, 70s, and 80shttp://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/85-002-x2007005-eng.pdf Statistics Canada data Violent crime rates in Canada.There were 2,452,787 crimes reported in 2006; 48% were property related crimes and 12.6% were violent crimes. At a rate of 7,518 reported incidents per 100,000 people, the crime rate in 2006, the latest year for which there is statistics, was the lowest crime rate in twenty-five years.[1] The crime rate has been in general decline since 1991. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Canada We;re not as misguided. American sentencing can be ridiculous. No one has proposed we go that route. Not yet you mean? Perhaps incrementally we are moving that way? Anyhow, that aside, this guy knows of what he speaks and wants to help us avoid being dumb. Edited March 8, 2011 by guyser Quote
Shakeyhands Posted March 8, 2011 Report Posted March 8, 2011 Oh , sorry to bother you then. But if you'd like to read it..... The national crime rate reached its lowest point in over 25 years in 2006. The crime rate dropped by 3% last year, following a 5% decline in 2005. The crime rate has decreased by about 30% since peaking in 1991, after increasing steadily throughout the 1960s, 70s, and 80shttp://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/85-002-x2007005-eng.pdf Statistics Canada data Violent crime rates in Canada.There were 2,452,787 crimes reported in 2006; 48% were property related crimes and 12.6% were violent crimes. At a rate of 7,518 reported incidents per 100,000 people, the crime rate in 2006, the latest year for which there is statistics, was the lowest crime rate in twenty-five years.[1] The crime rate has been in general decline since 1991. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Canada Not yet you mean? Perhaps incrementally we are moving that way? Anyhow, that aside, this guy knows of what he speaks and wants to help us avoid being dumb. Darn facts again... Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
guyser Posted March 8, 2011 Author Report Posted March 8, 2011 Darn facts again... No kidding. I hear crickets and only crickets. Quote
PIK Posted March 8, 2011 Report Posted March 8, 2011 Ok, tell Stats Can to stop saying it....k ? I guess that 3% drop in 2009 and 17% drop from a decade ago is NOT dropping ? Didnt say that. Said he has an idea about what he is talking about, which is in his experience, the US made the wrong choice and is paying the piper.Thinks we shouldnt be as misguided. Depend on how you look at it, crime is up crime is down, but for anyone to think that crime is going to continue down, which I think violent crime by youth is going up, is again a fool. I want to see more cleaner newer jails for people ,so we don't have 5 per cell, and kids mixed in with career criminals.I would like to see people that go to jail, automaticly get health issues look at 1st, then into a education system and then sit in jail to think about things for a while and then released. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
guyser Posted March 8, 2011 Author Report Posted March 8, 2011 Depend on how you look at it, crime is up crime is down, but for anyone to think that crime is going to continue down, which I think violent crime by youth is going up, is again a fool. Pik, we can look at it the way it is, is crime, overall up or down? Stats Can says down, in some cases way down (B&Es for instance, youth sexual assaults up) I want to see more cleaner newer jails for people ,so we don't have 5 per cell, and kids mixed in with career criminals.I would like to see people that go to jail, automaticly get health issues look at 1st, then into a education system and then sit in jail to think about things for a while and then released. Some I agree.Edu and Health issues. Id rather we purge some of the non-sensical sentences and free up existing space before we criminalize and incarcerate more. Quote
Scotty Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 (edited) Oh , sorry to bother you then. But if you'd like to read it..... The national crime rate reached its lowest point in over 25 years in 2006. You ignored this part: This Juristat examines 2006 police-reported crime data Police reported crime is dropping. Crime, on the other hand, is not. Stats Can's own victims surveys say as much. Just most people aren't bothering to report crime any more, perhaps because there's so much of it. Edited March 9, 2011 by Scotty Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Smallc Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 (edited) Police reported crime is dropping. Crime, on the other hand, is not. Stats Can's own victims surveys say as much. Those are unreliable surveys, as they are based voluntary reporting. That generally results in over reporting. Police reported crime is really the only actual, provable statistic. The idea that people aren't reporting crime in the era of widespread cell phones is completely ludicrous. Edited March 9, 2011 by Smallc Quote
guyser Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Posted March 9, 2011 You ignored this part: Police reported crime is dropping. Crime, on the other hand, is not. Stats Can's own victims surveys say as much. Just most people aren't bothering to report crime any more, perhaps because there's so much of it. Scotty, I did not ignore any part. You of course have had ample time to copme up with Stats Can publication saying crime is rising....but you didnt. But by all mean, as it would appear, move the goalpost after the fact. Post me any survey, from Conservatives leading in the polls to Federal funding of ABC project.....and I will counter with "oh those polls, yeah, people arent bothering to report the truth anymore" But that would be stupid, as it is here. Quote
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